The Sexpat and the Surprise Ladyboy: Is This Rape?

[Jolly_Penguin]

All the recent threads about rape brought back a memory of a conversation I heard a number of years ago on a train in Thailand between who I believe to be a French sexpat and his female Thai friend. He was complaining that he had been raped and she could not stop laughing at him and telling him that no, that's not rape.

I didn't get all the details, but it went something like this:

He went to the bard district to pick up a girl for the night. He found what he thought was a young Thai woman and he brought her to his hotel room. I don't know if he paid her or just picked her up. She gave him a blowjob, and then revealed that she had a penis of her own. He was shocked and apparently felt very violated. He claimed the ladybody (that's what they are called there) did this to purposefully deceive him and that he/she got off on his reaction.

He kept saying to his friend on the train that he "didn't want no gay shit". She kept laughing. I don't think either of them knew I speak French and could understand what I was overhearing.

Was this rape? Was it sexual assault? Or was it just

 

[starwater]

It's a twist - but yes I would call that rape. He is clearly a heterosexual and he had sex without his consent with a male.

 

[ZiprHead]

Should have been a poll.

 

[Bronzeage]

AT this point in my life, I think I've heard about two dozens versions of this story. The stories have different endings, but they all start in a bar.

This might be a case of consumer fraud, but not rape. We can be certain of one thing, Meedoo (they're all named Meedoo Chulontime) got the money first. We can't really call it fraud, since the implied contract made in the bar, before going to the hotel, was for an exchange of money for sex, with Meedoo. What our sexpat Frenchman assumed and later found to be an error, is a failure of due diligence on his part.

The main problem with this particular story is the setting. How any westerner could find the bar district of a Thai city and not have heard of a Thai Ladyboy, stretches credulity.

 

[J842P]

It's a twist - but yes I would call that rape. He is clearly a heterosexual and he had sex without his consent with a male.

Woah there. Are you saying women can't have penises?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

In addition to the holes in the story, this happened too many years ago. Why didn't his loving parents or JP call the police?

[/Twitler]

 

[bilby]

So if you pick up someone in a bar, agree to have sex with them, go back to a hotel room where they give you a blowjob, and then when they take off their clothes, you find that they have an ugly birthmark on their upper thigh that you find a massive turn-off, were you raped?

If not, then the situation described in the OP ain't rape either.

The "victim" consented to all of the acts that were performed, and when they encountered a 'turn-off' about their previously desirable partner, they withdrew consent and no further sexual activity occurred. That's not rape.

 

[phands]

Given the common definitions of rape as including sexual penetration without consent, it wasn't rape, because he consented to the blow job. That it was under deceptive circumstances doesn't change that. Just another case of male erectile IQ decrease. I'd also be willing to bet that the guy was a xtian.

 

[bilby]

Given the common definitions of rape as including sexual penetration without consent, it wasn't rape, because he consented to the blow job. That it was under deceptive circumstances doesn't change that. Just another case of male erectile IQ decrease. I'd also be willing to bet that the guy was a xtian.

It wasn't under deceptive circumstances. Unless he asked his partner whether she had a penis, and was told 'no'.

The 'reasonable person test' implies that any person picking up sexual partners in a Thai bar should not assume that their chosen partner has no penis, simply on the basis of dress and secondary sexual characteristics. Ladyboys are a world famous phenomenon.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I read a story of a guy jerking off a horse who was charged with 4th degree sexual assault or some similar thing. That illustrates degrees of sex assault and consent.

I'd be okay with classifying this as sexual assault to some appropriate degree if the victim were telling the truth and the laws of the land were known to citizens, but the alleged victim seems to have been lying.

 

[phands]

Given the common definitions of rape as including sexual penetration without consent, it wasn't rape, because he consented to the blow job. That it was under deceptive circumstances doesn't change that. Just another case of male erectile IQ decrease. I'd also be willing to bet that the guy was a xtian.

It wasn't under deceptive circumstances. Unless he asked his partner whether she had a penis, and was told 'no'.

The 'reasonable person test' implies that any person picking up sexual partners in a Thai bar should not assume that their chosen partner has no penis, simply on the basis of dress and secondary sexual characteristics. Ladyboys are a world famous phenomenon.

So...as he was a sex tourist in a country where ladyboys are epidemic, he should have known. Again erectile IQ decrease.

 

[starwater]

It's a twist - but yes I would call that rape. He is clearly a heterosexual and he had sex without his consent with a male.

Woah there. Are you saying women can't have penises?

He didn't say this person was transgender.

 

[J842P]

It's a twist - but yes I would call that rape. He is clearly a heterosexual and he had sex without his consent with a male.

Woah there. Are you saying women can't have penises?

He didn't say this person was transgender.

So? The person could be. Indeed, that they present as a woman suggest that they are.

 

[Bronzeage]

I read a story of a guy jerking off a horse who was charged with 4th degree sexual assault or some similar thing. That illustrates degrees of sex assault and consent.

I'd be okay with classifying this as sexual assault to some appropriate degree if the victim were telling the truth and the laws of the land were known to citizens, but the alleged victim seems to have been lying.

This would fall in the category of cruelty to animals, and it could be difficult to make that charge stick, unless the horse was injured in some way. There is a famous case from Virginia where a man died of internal injuries after having sex with a horse. There were two other men present, who were filming everything. The evidence was convincing, but all they could be charged with was trespassing.

 

[Jarhyn]

I read a story of a guy jerking off a horse who was charged with 4th degree sexual assault or some similar thing. That illustrates degrees of sex assault and consent.

I'd be okay with classifying this as sexual assault to some appropriate degree if the victim were telling the truth and the laws of the land were known to citizens, but the alleged victim seems to have been lying.

This would fall in the category of cruelty to animals, and it could be difficult to make that charge stick, unless the horse was injured in some way. There is a famous case from Virginia where a man died of internal injuries after having sex with a horse. There were two other men present, who were filming everything. The evidence was convincing, but all they could be charged with was trespassing.

Pretty sure it was Washington. For those who are curious, the easy way to find out more on this incident is to look up "Mr. Hands"

 

[phands]

Pretty sure it was Washington. For those who are curious, the easy way to find out more on this incident is to look up "Mr. Hands"

Wow...that's an unfortunate story, given my family name!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I don't think that would count as rape anymore than "she looked hot in the club because of what she was wearing, but when we got back to my place and she took her clothes off, it turned out that she was actually a bit of a fatty" counts as rape.

 

[Jarhyn]

Also, I sincerely hope this actually happens to our resident incel/sex trafficking criminals.

 

[Bronzeage]

I read a story of a guy jerking off a horse who was charged with 4th degree sexual assault or some similar thing. That illustrates degrees of sex assault and consent.

I'd be okay with classifying this as sexual assault to some appropriate degree if the victim were telling the truth and the laws of the land were known to citizens, but the alleged victim seems to have been lying.

This would fall in the category of cruelty to animals, and it could be difficult to make that charge stick, unless the horse was injured in some way. There is a famous case from Virginia where a man died of internal injuries after having sex with a horse. There were two other men present, who were filming everything. The evidence was convincing, but all they could be charged with was trespassing.

Pretty sure it was Washington. For those who are curious, the easy way to find out more on this incident is to look up "Mr. Hands"

The newslink I read placed it in Virginia, but I can imagine the results would be the same, whatever state this was attempted.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I don't think that would count as rape anymore than "she looked hot in the club because of what she was wearing, but when we got back to my place and she took her clothes off, it turned out that she was actually a bit of a fatty" counts as rape.

How about where she has sex with him because she thinks he is going to marry her?

Do lies ever become rape? Does sexual consent have to be informed consent? To what extent?