The shooting of Philando Castile (Live streamed on FB)

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nobody is claiming he was a thug, that he was being disrespectful or that he was resisting. As to following orders, it is unclear and disputed what the cop said before Philandro reached for his wallet. What is the usual procedure when police stop somebody who is armed and informs them of it? Do they normally tell him to get his wallet anyway?
In any case, it is a tragic mistake. If it is a mistake by the cop, he should face consequences for it, but it does not make him a murderer.

You are fighting men made out of straw yet again.

Still making excuses for these murdering cops, eh Derec?

FFS. Let's not make Derec into some sort of strawman hero here by resorting to this.

Derec isn't justifying anything, other than saying that it very well could have been a mistaken shooting. In fact, Derec hasn't even slung any mud... yet. There is no evidence available to indicate the officer planned on killing the driver.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

SOP is for the cop to ask for driver's license and registration. Are you really trying to claim the cop did NOT ask for those items?

Of course, if the driver says he has a gun, that may change things up. If the driver never mentions the gun, he doesn't die. Of course, if the car gets searched, the driver is in even bigger trouble.

I suppose this is a situation where having a gun directly led to his own death.

 

[repoman]

The commenters on liveleak.com about this video have it right.

NOTE: This is not to say it is the dead man's "fault" if he did not follow these steps...

I too have a CCL and have been pulled over while carrying. What I have been told and practice is,
as soon as you see those flashing lights:
1. Take your wallet out of your pocket and place it on the dashboard.
2. Place you hands on the steering wheel and leave them there
3. As soon as the police officer approaches inform them of your
Name
Address
Tell them you have a CCL and that your permit is in your wallet which is on the
dashboard and where your firearm is located.
4. Then ask the officer what they would like you to do.
I never even received a ticket for an illeagle maneuver.
I hope this helps all of you that carry.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=396_1467864290#XuLGCsxqVYYJ8wko.99

This is someone else's opinion, is any of it suggested by the video?

Busted tail light. Weed in the car. Did *not* let the Chinese officer know he had a CCL, disobeyed the officers orders, and only said he had a gun as he was reaching for his waistband. And all this with a child in the car. Thank you lady for the video. Poor guy. Probably a decent guy just kinda stupid.

- - - Updated - - -

SOP is for the cop to ask for driver's license and registration. Are you really trying to claim the cop did NOT ask for those items?

Of course, if the driver says he has a gun, that may change things up. If the driver never mentions the gun, he doesn't die. Of course, if the car gets searched, the driver is in even bigger trouble.

I suppose this is a situation where having a gun directly led to his own death.

I think that if he is not asked about the gun he would be ok.

 

[RavenSky]

It sounds like this man did everything exactly right - exactly like a white man with a concealed carry permit would do it - and yet he is still dead... killed by police. Shot point blank right in front of the little girl in the back seat.

It depends on what exactly happened. The video does not show the shooting or what led up to it. Apparently Philandro told the officer he had a gun and that he was going to retrieve his wallet. The girlfriend claims that the officer told Philandro to get the wallet, the cop says he told him not to reach for anything.

The cop did not say not to reach for "anything". He claims he said not to reach for "it" and in context "it" is the gun. The audio is available. You can listen for yourself.

P.S.: Is this a right-hand drive car or is the video flipped for some reason? At first I thought the girlfriend was driving as she appears to be sitting in the left-hand seat, but no, the steering wheel is in front of Philandro.

It is flipped because she was using the front facing camera on the phone.

P.P.S.: When I first watched the video last night (not knowing any details) I thought at first it was a staged performance. The girlfriend appeared very calm, collected and even rehearsed.

Of course you did

 

[RavenSky]

SOP is for the cop to ask for driver's license and registration. Are you really trying to claim the cop did NOT ask for those items?

Of course, if the driver says he has a gun, that may change things up. If the driver never mentions the gun, he doesn't die. Of course, if the car gets searched, the driver is in even bigger trouble.

I suppose this is a situation where having a gun directly led to his own death.

Apparently in a lot of states it is a law that the driver must inform the police officer immediately about concealed carry permits and about the presence of any gun. All of the gun advocate websites say that concealed-carry permit holders are taught to disclose the fact immediately regardless of state law.

And yes, the presence of a gun does seem to change things up quite a bit, but it also seems to depend heavily on the cop's behavior rather than the driver's.

I read an account from a black man (who said he was even wearing a hoodie) who reported that the police officers who pulled him over for a broken headlight were extremely professional. He notified them of the gun in the glove compartment and gave them his driver's license and permit. They said to leave the gun where is was, checked his information, gave him a warning instead of a ticket, and let him go.

In another story, a Florida family was driving in Maryland when they were pulled over. In this case, the man did not disclose the gun because it was locked in his safe in Florida, not in the car. But when the police ran his driver's license, the concealed carry permit information also came up. They made the man exit the vehicle, cuffed him, then asked where the gun was. He told them it was in the safe in Florida. The cops then asked the wife where the gun was and she said she didn't know. So the police pulled her and the kids out, put everyone in separate police vehicles, and tore the car apart. No gun.

And in yet another story, man gets pulled over. Is heard on the audio trying to tell the cop twice that he had a concealed carry permit and a gun in the car, and was told to shut up twice by the cop. Again when his driver's license is run, the conceal carry permit comes up. Now the cop demands to know where the gun is. The man tells him. The cop goes absolutely ballistic, including threatening to shoot the man in the head and in his mouth; threatening to "put lumps" on the man's wife; on and on with his violent melt down. He didn't, however, shoot the man dead - so there is that.

 

[Derec]

there was weed in the car!

He had weed? Did not know that. I guess it is you digging up dirt today!

 

[RavenSky]

The commenters on liveleak.com about this video have it right.

NOTE: This is not to say it is the dead man's "fault" if he did not follow these steps...

I too have a CCL and have been pulled over while carrying. What I have been told and practice is,
as soon as you see those flashing lights:
1. Take your wallet out of your pocket and place it on the dashboard.
2. Place you hands on the steering wheel and leave them there
3. As soon as the police officer approaches inform them of your
Name
Address
Tell them you have a CCL and that your permit is in your wallet which is on the
dashboard and where your firearm is located.
4. Then ask the officer what they would like you to do.
I never even received a ticket for an illeagle maneuver.
I hope this helps all of you that carry.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=396_1...sxqVYYJ8wko.99

I've read similar steps recommended for concealed carry permit holders, but have also read to be very careful about moving around too much in the car because the police can misinterpret that too. It appears to me that there is no 'one right answer' because everything depends on the temperament of the cop.

This is someone else's opinion, is any of it suggested by the video?

Busted tail light. Weed in the car. Did *not* let the Chinese officer know he had a CCL, disobeyed the officers orders, and only said he had a gun as he was reaching for his waistband. And all this with a child in the car. Thank you lady for the video. Poor guy. Probably a decent guy just kinda stupid.

Stupid quote because it is inaccurate as to what we currently know. There is no question the driver DID let the cop know about the concealed carry permit and the gun, and we know this not just because the girlfriend said so. We know it because that is how the cop knew it.

Further, the cop did not know about the pot at the point he killed the driver, and we don't know if the shooting cop ever knew. It was the girlfriend who said that later.

 

[repoman]

Not to derail, but the story of the maryland police stop:

http://www.tbo.com/list/columns-tjackson/jackson-gun-owner-unarmed-unwelcome-in-maryland-20140112/

 

[Derec]

Not to derail, but the story of the maryland police stop:

http://www.tbo.com/list/columns-tjackson/jackson-gun-owner-unarmed-unwelcome-in-maryland-20140112/

#GreekGunsMatter

 

[Nice Squirrel]

It appears that many of my friends knew and appreciated "Mr. Phil". They are sharing their fond memories of him on my facebook feed.

 

[Jarhyn]

-.- we JUST got past the BLM protests here in Minneapolis/St. Paul, and now this shit? I was looking forward to a peaceful summer and now the 5 is going to be a shit show with nothing but yacking about it and protests. Then again I do wonder if it'll blow up because the guy wasn't poor or known by any of the rabble that was causing problems after that jackass got shot after beating his girlfriend.

I find it ironic that this is the guy they could have ethically rallied around but they may not because he isn't by any reasonable definition a "thug" nor known by the uneducated community that fueled the previous BLM protests.

 

[RavenSky]

-.- we JUST got past the BLM protests here in Minneapolis/St. Paul, and now this shit? I was looking forward to a peaceful summer and now the 5 is going to be a shit show with nothing but yacking about it and protests. Then again I do wonder if it'll blow up because the guy wasn't poor or known by any of the rabble that was causing problems after that jackass got shot after beating his girlfriend.

I find it ironic that this is the guy they could have ethically rallied around but they may not because he isn't by any reasonable definition a "thug" nor known by the uneducated community that fueled the previous BLM protests.

So sorry you might be inconvenienced after a police officer kills yet another civilian

An estimated 200 people were gathered at the shooting site in Falcon Heights at 1:30 a.m. Police started towing cars soon after, and most people left by 2:30 a.m.

Protesters then began to gather at the Governor’s Mansion in St. Paul after 2 a.m.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/07/06/police-officer-involved-shooting-in-falcon-heights/

 

[Jarhyn]

So sorry you might be inconvenienced after a police officer kills yet another civilian

An estimated 200 people were gathered at the shooting site in Falcon Heights at 1:30 a.m. Police started towing cars soon after, and most people left by 2:30 a.m.

Protesters then began to gather at the Governor’s Mansion in St. Paul after 2 a.m.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/07/06/police-officer-involved-shooting-in-falcon-heights/

I blame the police officer. You have nothing to be sorry for.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It sounds like this man did everything exactly right - exactly like a white man with a concealed carry permit would do it - and yet he is still dead... killed by police. Shot point blank right in front of the little girl in the back seat.

No. We know he did something wrong. Look at the woman's words: He was putting his hands back up when he was shot. In order to have put his hands back up they had to have been down--near his gun.

If you're carrying and are stopped by the police you inform them and you don't put your hands anywhere remotely near your gun (ideal is to leave them on the wheel) until you have gotten directions from the cop on how he wants to handle it.

 

[whichphilosophy]

It sounds like this man did everything exactly right - exactly like a white man with a concealed carry permit would do it - and yet he is still dead... killed by police. Shot point blank right in front of the little girl in the back seat.

No. We know he did something wrong. Look at the woman's words: He was putting his hands back up when he was shot. In order to have put his hands back up they had to have been down--near his gun.

If you're carrying and are stopped by the police you inform them and you don't put your hands anywhere remotely near your gun (ideal is to leave them on the wheel) until you have gotten directions from the cop on how he wants to handle it.

If he was putting his hands up it could also indicate he was complying.
However this is also assumption but there should be a full investigation. The police officer did sound agitated during the video

 

[RavenSky]

It sounds like this man did everything exactly right - exactly like a white man with a concealed carry permit would do it - and yet he is still dead... killed by police. Shot point blank right in front of the little girl in the back seat.

No. We know he did something wrong. Look at the woman's words: He was putting his hands back up when he was shot. In order to have put his hands back up they had to have been down--near his gun.

Prove where his gun was, Loren!!!

You are so fucking ridiculous sometimes. There is zero evidence at this point that his gun was on his person The man was reaching for his wallet to get his driver's license as he was ordered to do by the police officer!!!

If you're carrying and are stopped by the police you inform them and you don't put your hands anywhere remotely near your gun (ideal is to leave them on the wheel) until you have gotten directions from the cop on how he wants to handle it.

Well it clearly did not help this man to obey police orders to get his driver's license out of his wallet, did it?

 

[ksen]

It sounds like this man did everything exactly right - exactly like a white man with a concealed carry permit would do it - and yet he is still dead... killed by police. Shot point blank right in front of the little girl in the back seat.

No. We know he did something wrong. Look at the woman's words: He was putting his hands back up when he was shot. In order to have put his hands back up they had to have been down--near his gun.

If you're carrying and are stopped by the police you inform them and you don't put your hands anywhere remotely near your gun (ideal is to leave them on the wheel) until you have gotten directions from the cop on how he wants to handle it.

You're advocating he should have disobeyed the police officer? Isn't that also a killing offense according to you?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It sounds like this man did everything exactly right - exactly like a white man with a concealed carry permit would do it - and yet he is still dead... killed by police. Shot point blank right in front of the little girl in the back seat.

No. We know he did something wrong.

Yup! We know it! No doubt. Nothing but certainty. Even a blind man could see it!

 

[RavenSky]

I scanned the news all day and well past my bedtime. I'm expecting the statement from the NRA any time now. You know, the voice of outrage from our nation's organization bent on protecting our Second Amendment rights. The voice that condemns the actions of police who would shoot someone who identifies himself as carrying a gun (which, as stated before, is legal in that state).

http://www.sheknows.com/living/articles/1125787/philando-castile-gun

 

[RavenSky]

It appears that many of my friends knew and appreciated "Mr. Phil". They are sharing their fond memories of him on my facebook feed.

Nice Squirrel, I just wanted to send my condolences. It doesn't sound like you knew him directly, but I also know that something like this can be so much harder when it hits so close to home. It's the way I still feel when anyone discusses the murder of Trayvon Martin. I didn't know him, and didn't meet his parents until after - but knew people who knew people, knew his neighborhood, knew his school... I know it can make it a little too real and personal.