The shooting of Philando Castile (Live streamed on FB)

[Tom Sawyer]

I remember a video I saw once of a white and black man carrying a gun. First, they showed a white guy walking down the street with an automatic rifle. A cop pulled up and politely asked him what he was doing and he informed him that he was simply asserting his second amendment right and the cop had no basis to hassle him. The cop talked to him for a minute or two and then left. After that, they showed a black guy walking down the street with the same rifle and a cop pulled up, pointed his gun at him and told him to get to the ground while radioing for backup and soon there were five cop cars worth of police surrounding him and putting him in cuffs. His constant statements that he was simply exerting his second amendment rights were ignored.

 

[TSwizzle]

Reynolds said the officer came to the window and instructed them to put their hands in the air. He then asked to see Castile’s license and registration, which, Reynolds said, Castile kept in a thick wallet in a pants pocket.

“As he’s reaching for his back pocket wallet, he lets the officer know: ‘Officer, I have a firearm on me.’ I begin to yell, ‘But he’s licensed to carry,’ ” Reynolds said. “After that, he [the officer] began to take off shots: ba ba ba ba. ‘Don’t move, don’t move!’

WP

Well, if this is accurate, I can understand why the officer was a bit nervous.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Reynolds said the officer came to the window and instructed them to put their hands in the air. He then asked to see Castile’s license and registration, which, Reynolds said, Castile kept in a thick wallet in a pants pocket.

“As he’s reaching for his back pocket wallet, he lets the officer know: ‘Officer, I have a firearm on me.’ I begin to yell, ‘But he’s licensed to carry,’ ” Reynolds said. “After that, he [the officer] began to take off shots: ba ba ba ba. ‘Don’t move, don’t move!’

WP

Well, if this is accurate, I can understand why the officer was a bit nervous.

Yeah... typically if someone wants to kill a cop, they don't let the cop know they are going for a gun.

 

[RavenSky]

WP

Well, if this is accurate, I can understand why the officer was a bit nervous.

Yeah... typically if someone wants to kill a cop, they don't let the cop know they are going for a gun.

Other reports say he said there was a gun in the car:

In the video, she says repeatedly that her boyfriend had been shot several times while reaching for his license, and that he had told officers before the shooting that he had a gun in the car.

But let's pretend we know for a fact that the gun was actually on his person as opposed to in the glove compartment...

So?

He notified the police officer as he was supposed to do. He was reaching for his wallet as he was ordered to do. Is it his fault that the police officer gave conflicting orders and then opened fire before he could do anything either way?

Let's remember, this is a man who is LEGALLY ALLOWED TO CARRY A GUN. He has no criminal background, was pulled over for a broken tail-light.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Let's remember, this is a man who is LEGALLY ALLOWED TO CARRY A GUN. He has no criminal background, was pulled over for a broken tail-light.

Oh, OK. I was wondering why the NRA leadership was screaming bloody murder over this and wasn't being completely silent about the matter.

 

[RavenSky]

Let's remember, this is a man who is LEGALLY ALLOWED TO CARRY A GUN. He has no criminal background, was pulled over for a broken tail-light.

Oh, OK. I was wondering why the NRA leadership was screaming bloody murder over this and wasn't being completely silent about the matter.

You aren't the only person wondering about that

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Oh, OK. I was wondering why the NRA leadership was screaming bloody murder over this and wasn't being completely silent about the matter.

You aren't the only person wondering about that

They're probably huddled up with their advisors trying to figure out who the hell it was that decided the second amendment applied to colored folk.

I bet it was that asshat Jefferson. I hate that guy.

 

[RavenSky]

You aren't the only person wondering about that

They're probably huddled up with their advisors trying to figure out who the hell it was that decided the second amendment applied to colored folk.

I bet it was that asshat Jefferson. I hate that guy.

Well, the NRA should look no further than their own PR department.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/K-HbOJGSPSg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[ksen]

Let's remember, this is a man who is LEGALLY ALLOWED TO CARRY A GUN. He has no criminal background, was pulled over for a broken tail-light.

I doubt the tailight was actually broken.

 

[RavenSky]

Let's remember, this is a man who is LEGALLY ALLOWED TO CARRY A GUN. He has no criminal background, was pulled over for a broken tail-light.

I doubt the tailight was actually broken.

Same thought crossed my mind, too.

There was another article about a guy who says the municipality was engaged in ticketing for revenue, and using very inexperienced cops to do it.

About two years ago, Joe Olson was pulled over by a St. Anthony Police Department squad car for running a red light in Falcon Heights, the same Twin Cities suburb where Philando Castile was shot to death by a cop Wednesday evening. Olson put his hands on the steering wheel and waited for the officer to approach his driver’s side window when he heard a voice emanate from behind his head.

“I heard this voice with a tremor of fear in it. Actually, it scared me. Is this a scared cop?” Olson told ThinkProgress. “And he’s standing three feet behind my bumper interviewing me through the outside rear-view mirror, which is really weird, and he sounds terrified.

About six months later, Olson — a retired Minnesota law professor who played a key role in drafting Minnesota’s firearms permit law and now serves as the chairman of the Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance — scheduled an appointment with St. Anthony Police Department Chief John Ohl to share his concerns. (The city of Falcon Heights contracts with the St. Anthony PD for police services.) But Olson said Chief Ohl didn’t take him seriously.

“He blew off my report — wasn’t interested,” Olson recalled. “I said, ‘I think you have a training problem, and if you don’t fix it, you’re going to have a bigger problem.'”

Olson, who served in the Falcon Heights fire department, said he also has reason to believe that Falcon Heights officials place great value on the revenue generated by traffic citations. The city of 5,491 spent nearly $700,000 on policing last year. Across the three communities the St. Anthony PD serves, officers issued 2,410 citations, but only made 833 arrests, of which 661 were traffic-related. Small towns using traffic citations as a revenue stream is far from unprecedented in America.

“I was on the fire department in Falcon Heights when they got the [St. Anthony] police contract, and the chief promised the city council that he would double their ticket revenue,” Olson said, adding that this happened before Ohl’s tenure. “They essentially run a slot machine where the incident happened. They’re always out there looking for anything — write a ticket and collect a buck.”
The St. Anthony PD’s 2015 annual report acknowledges that “another way in which the patrol division contributes to our goal of suppressing and deterring criminal activities is though our active enforcement of traffic laws.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...anthony-police-falcon-heights-improper-stops/

Listening to the absolute quaking in the voice of the cop on the video, I suspect this is exactly what we are looking at here - both parts of Joe Olson's warnings two years ago.

 

[Malintent]

It sounds like this man did everything exactly right - exactly like a white man with a concealed carry permit would do it - and yet he is still dead... killed by police. Shot point blank right in front of the little girl in the back seat.

No. We know he did something wrong. Look at the woman's words: He was putting his hands back up when he was shot. In order to have put his hands back up they had to have been down--near his gun.

If you're carrying and are stopped by the police you inform them and you don't put your hands anywhere remotely near your gun (ideal is to leave them on the wheel) until you have gotten directions from the cop on how he wants to handle it.

The man did not behave correctly.. or even legally. When you get a carry permit, you are required to learn how to use the gun safely, and how to interact safely with law enforcement. If he loaded the gun and shot his girlfriend, and then said, "sorry, I didn't know how to use it properly" you would condemn him because it is the carrier's responsibility to know how and to do the correct things. This is similar... he was supposed to say and do things that he did not do... allegedly. Of course, he should not have been shot unless he actually touched the gun, not just said, "I've got a gun".

"I've got a gun" is usually followed by "and I know how to use it, so fuck off"... not, "and I am legally licensed to carry.. my permit is in my wallet and the gun is in my right pocket".

We don't have the facts so it is silly to speculate what actually happened here. But it doesn't sound like the cop was justified in shooting.

The video is all after-the-fact. so nearly useless. No body cam. So, we will have to rely on the integrity of the woman in the car and the cop to accurately describe what really happened.

Saying, "I've got a gun", and then reaching for it, is like picking up a loaded gun by the trigger... you are taught not to do that.

 

[TSwizzle]

WP

Well, if this is accurate, I can understand why the officer was a bit nervous.

Yeah... typically if someone wants to kill a cop, they don't let the cop know they are going for a gun.

No matter. In my opinion, I don't think it's a good idea to announce that you have a gun to a cop and then go reaching into your pocket.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The commenters on liveleak.com about this video have it right.

I too have a CCL and have been pulled over while carrying. What I have been told and practice is,
as soon as you see those flashing lights:
1. Take your wallet out of your pocket and place it on the dashboard.
2. Place you hands on the steering wheel and leave them there
3. As soon as the police officer approaches inform them of your
Name
Address
Tell them you have a CCL and that your permit is in your wallet which is on the
dashboard and where your firearm is located.
4. Then ask the officer what they would like you to do.
I never even received a ticket for an illeagle maneuver.
I hope this helps all of you that carry. ...

Really??

Here is what another Internets source says:

Do not start digging through your glove box or pockets looking for your driver’s license or registration until the officer asks you to do so.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/how-talk-police-when-youre-pulled-over.htm

It's funny how everyone is an expert but the Constitution doesn't say any of this.

 

[KeepTalking]

The commenters on liveleak.com about this video have it right.

Really??

Here is what another Internets source says:

Do not start digging through your glove box or pockets looking for your driver’s license or registration until the officer asks you to do so.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/how-talk-police-when-youre-pulled-over.htm

It's funny how everyone is an expert but the Constitution doesn't say any of this.

It can be very confusing. I pretty much always carry my wallet in my back pocket, and if I am pulled over I pull the wallet out before the police get to my window, just so I will have it ready. Once I was on a cross country trip, and was tired of sitting on my wallet, so I gave it to my wife to keep in her purse, which was on the floor between her legs. I was pulled over, and immediately asked my wife to retrieve my wallet. When the cop got to my window, he asked what she was trying to hide under the seat. I told him that she was just getting my wallet out of her purse, which was still on the floor. He didn't care, we got to stand out in the rain for a half hour while he searched my car, and called in a K9 unit to find the drugs that had obviously been hidden all over the car while my wife was bending over to reach into the purse in front of her. Seriously, this guy even checked my air filter, luggage, and spare tire. He was quite the asshole the entire time.

The K9 cop was actually very cordial and professional, asking general questions about where we were heading and being pretty cool about the whole situation. He rolled his eyes at the other officer several times because of the dickish manner in which he was treating me. He never got the dog out of his car the entire time, though, because of the rain, and I don't blame him.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Let me just add that if a person is going into their back pocket, jacket pocket, or glove compartment as the police officer goes up to the window that will indeed freak out the police officer. You might not realize he's coming up to the car as you are going through your things. So it would indeed seem safer to wait for instruction, especially if you are black.

 

[Derec]

There was another article about a guy who says the municipality was engaged in ticketing for revenue, and using very inexperienced cops to do it.

I wonder why ticketing for revenue is only seen as a problem when it happens to black people (like in Ferguson). Why isn't DOJ investigating fromderinside's hometown that he calls "speedersfundus" for example? Or these towns in Metro Atlanta.

I agree "ticketing for revenue" is a problem, but DOJ should address is comprehensively and not play favorites based on political correctness.

- - - Updated - - -

Let me just add that if a person is going into their back pocket, jacket pocket, or glove compartment as the police officer goes up to the window that will indeed freak out the police officer. You might not realize he's coming up to the car as you are going through your things. So it would indeed seem safer to wait for instruction, especially if you are black.

Or tell him you have a gun at the same time you are going for the wallet.

 

[RavenSky]

I wonder why ticketing for revenue is only seen as a problem when it happens to black people...

That's your own strawman

 

[Derec]

Nice Squirrel, I just wanted to send my condolences. It doesn't sound like you knew him directly, but I also know that something like this can be so much harder when it hits so close to home. It's the way I still feel when anyone discusses the murder of Trayvon Martin. I didn't know him, and didn't meet his parents until after - but knew people who knew people, knew his neighborhood, knew his school... I know it can make it a little too real and personal.

Oh, I did not know you know Trayvon's parents. Perhaps that explains your lack of objectivity in that case. How did you meet the parents?

 

[RavenSky]

Oh, I did not know you know Trayvon's parents. Perhaps that explains your lack of objectivity in that case. How did you meet the parents?

<edited to remove personal insult>

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I wonder why ticketing for revenue is only seen as a problem when it happens to black people (like in Ferguson). Why isn't DOJ investigating fromderinside's hometown that he calls "speedersfundus" for example? Or these towns in Metro Atlanta.

I agree "ticketing for revenue" is a problem, but DOJ should address is comprehensively and not play favorites based on political correctness.

Ticketing for revenue is illegal in Minnesota. This doesn't mean it does not happen, but considering the stories I've heard around here, the police force is quicker than most to pull you over.