The Stock Market

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Futures up 300 pts. 6.6 million lose jobs numbers released. Futures down 50 points. A few minutes later, futures up several hundred points. WTF?!

Lots more people can access stock sales than used to be the norm. There will therefore be much more noise, which is what we're seeing. Buy low and sell high is still the name of the game for day trader types.

 

[funinspace]

Looks like JC Penny's, a penny stock, will be filing for bankruptcy. Not surprisingly one of the early larger victims of the lock down. It will be another hard kick at the big mall operators as well.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...hopes-for-recovery-fade-sources-idUSKCN21W34W

California's governor talked about spacing at restaurants as part of the new normal. I do have to wonder just how many restaurants in coastal California (and/or lots of other places) can afford to operate at a maximum of 50-60% capacity for the next year...sure there is take out, but ouch.

 

[Elixir]

Futures up 300 pts. 6.6 million lose jobs numbers released. Futures down 50 points. A few minutes later, futures up several hundred points. WTF?!

Lots more people can access stock sales than used to be the norm. There will therefore be much more noise, which is what we're seeing. Buy low and sell high is still the name of the game for day trader types.

Day traders should be getting a little bit cautious about now... let's see... DOW is down about 2.75% at the moment. Traditionally this would a golden moment to buy, knowing with some certainty that a bump of at least 1% will follow tomorrow morning. What's your gut telling you, T.G.G.? Mine says there's only about a 50% chance of that happening. But then, my gut has been telling me that the sheer volume of bad news to come should have priced in today's drop by last week some time...
The bottom may still be a ways off.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What I find odd is that things are going up and down in unison. Gold is going up and down with the market, as is Bitcoin. Usually gold is a hedge.

And thanks to Trump who was instrumental in getting production cuts for oil, oil has dropped below $20 a barrel because there is almost no storage capacity left... making one wonder if Saudi Arabia is slowing production down because they would have had to pay people to take the oil. Good job Trump. Got the strategic reserve filled for cheap, but have put American oil companies at tremendous risk.

Jimmy Higgins advocating for oil companies? There is a first.

 

[ZiprHead]

What I find odd is that things are going up and down in unison. Gold is going up and down with the market, as is Bitcoin. Usually gold is a hedge.

And thanks to Trump who was instrumental in getting production cuts for oil, oil has dropped below $20 a barrel because there is almost no storage capacity left... making one wonder if Saudi Arabia is slowing production down because they would have had to pay people to take the oil. Good job Trump. Got the strategic reserve filled for cheap, but have put American oil companies at tremendous risk.

Jimmy Higgins advocating for oil companies? There is a first.

I've heard that on the other side of town by the I-75 ramps, gas is going for less than a dollar.

 

[Elixir]

What I find odd is that things are going up and down in unison. Gold is going up and down with the market, as is Bitcoin. Usually gold is a hedge.

And thanks to Trump who was instrumental in getting production cuts for oil, oil has dropped below $20 a barrel because there is almost no storage capacity left... making one wonder if Saudi Arabia is slowing production down because they would have had to pay people to take the oil. Good job Trump. Got the strategic reserve filled for cheap, but have put American oil companies at tremendous risk.

Jimmy Higgins advocating for oil companies? There is a first.

I've heard that on the other side of town by the I-75 ramps, gas is going for less than a dollar.

In even better news, coal prices are suffering just as badly. Good news for North Korea, though!
MAGA!

 

[funinspace]

What I find odd is that things are going up and down in unison. Gold is going up and down with the market, as is Bitcoin. Usually gold is a hedge.

If one considers the DJIA, from about 20-24 Feb, it is down about 20%. Gold is up about 3% ish in that same time period; and up about 50% from a year ago.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What I find odd is that things are going up and down in unison. Gold is going up and down with the market, as is Bitcoin. Usually gold is a hedge.

If one considers the DJIA, from about 20-24 Feb, it is down about 20%. Gold is up about 3% ish in that same time period; and up about 50% from a year ago.

So I suppose you expect me to look stuff up now instead of just say things. How typical!

I was reflecting on day to day these days.

 

[ronburgundy]

Futures up 300 pts. 6.6 million lose jobs numbers released. Futures down 50 points. A few minutes later, futures up several hundred points. WTF?!

Lots more people can access stock sales than used to be the norm. There will therefore be much more noise, which is what we're seeing. Buy low and sell high is still the name of the game for day trader types.

I'm certainly not a "day trader" but count me among those just getting into the marke. I've had money sitting in Money Market accounts making about 1.5% for a decade. I've never bought a stock in my life. As odd as it seems, I made my first foray into the market 3 weeks ago just as many were getting out of their equities. It's gone well. I only invested a total of $10,000 so far. I took some bad advice and lost a few hundred between Boeing and GE, both of which I now got out of b/c they look to drop even further and their recovery is likely to take years (people will not be traveling for leisure as much even when allowed). However, I knew that some stocks would benefit from everyone being quarantined. I started with Netflix, which had lost 25% of their value in early March along with everything else. But they were starting to rise again due to more people being on lockdown. It's up 30% from where I bought. Similar with Roku, which is up 40% from where I bought. Zoom was more complicated. I bought a week prior to the news about their security issues which I didn't find out about until 2 days later and had already lost about 10%. I got out thinking it was a death sentence and it did drop another 10% but then came back up. I read some more and decided that the security thing was overhyped and not that hard to fix, and the ease of use would make a good bet, so I got back in and made back what I lost plus 10%. So, even included my loses on the more established GE and Boeing stocks I'm up 23% over 3 weeks.

Sorry if that seems like a brag, but I wanted to talk to someone about it and it stresses my wife out and non of my friends are in individual stocks.

It's pretty much gambling although more between poker and blackjack than pure luck roulette or slots.

 

[funinspace]

Futures up 300 pts. 6.6 million lose jobs numbers released. Futures down 50 points. A few minutes later, futures up several hundred points. WTF?!

Lots more people can access stock sales than used to be the norm. There will therefore be much more noise, which is what we're seeing. Buy low and sell high is still the name of the game for day trader types.

I'm certainly not a "day trader" but count me among those just getting into the marke. I've had money sitting in Money Market accounts making about 1.5% for a decade.

Ouch! If your residence is California, another decent option for fairly safe stashing of money is a muni bond fund that is California only, as you at least won't pay state/federal taxes on most of it. In Oregon LMOOX is good for me. Check out something like VCAIX or BCITX among many others:
https://money.usnews.com/funds/mutual-funds/rankings/muni-california-intermediate

I've never bought a stock in my life. As odd as it seems, I made my first foray into the market 3 weeks ago just as many were getting out of their equities. It's gone well. I only invested a total of $10,000 so far. I took some bad advice and lost a few hundred between Boeing and GE, both of which I now got out of b/c they look to drop even further and their recovery is likely to take years (people will not be traveling for leisure as much even when allowed). However, I knew that some stocks would benefit from everyone being quarantined. I started with Netflix, which had lost 25% of their value in early March along with everything else. But they were starting to rise again due to more people being on lockdown. It's up 30% from where I bought. Similar with Roku, which is up 40% from where I bought. Zoom was more complicated. I bought a week prior to the news about their security issues which I didn't find out about until 2 days later and had already lost about 10%. I got out thinking it was a death sentence and it did drop another 10% but then came back up. I read some more and decided that the security thing was overhyped and not that hard to fix, and the ease of use would make a good bet, so I got back in and made back what I lost plus 10%. So, even included my loses on the more established GE and Boeing stocks I'm up 23% over 3 weeks.

Sorry if that seems like a brag, but I wanted to talk to someone about it and it stresses my wife out and non of my friends are in individual stocks.

It's pretty much gambling although more between poker and blackjack than pure luck roulette or slots.

Good for you. There are ETF's that would allow you to be more broadly invested, which helps to not pooch yourself as well. Or you can play airlines with something like the JETS ETF; that one has me tempted, but I'm not biting yet. I did ZM in mid Feb, and finally bailed out today. On the oops side, I bought Disney on 6 Jan, liking what I saw in the company for the long term; and then went oh Covfefe-19 on 27 Jan and cut my losses. And I don't day trade...

 

[ZiprHead]

Futures up 300 pts. 6.6 million lose jobs numbers released. Futures down 50 points. A few minutes later, futures up several hundred points. WTF?!

Lots more people can access stock sales than used to be the norm. There will therefore be much more noise, which is what we're seeing. Buy low and sell high is still the name of the game for day trader types.

I'm certainly not a "day trader" but count me among those just getting into the marke. I've had money sitting in Money Market accounts making about 1.5% for a decade. I've never bought a stock in my life. As odd as it seems, I made my first foray into the market 3 weeks ago just as many were getting out of their equities. It's gone well. I only invested a total of $10,000 so far. I took some bad advice and lost a few hundred between Boeing and GE, both of which I now got out of b/c they look to drop even further and their recovery is likely to take years (people will not be traveling for leisure as much even when allowed). However, I knew that some stocks would benefit from everyone being quarantined. I started with Netflix, which had lost 25% of their value in early March along with everything else. But they were starting to rise again due to more people being on lockdown. It's up 30% from where I bought. Similar with Roku, which is up 40% from where I bought. Zoom was more complicated. I bought a week prior to the news about their security issues which I didn't find out about until 2 days later and had already lost about 10%. I got out thinking it was a death sentence and it did drop another 10% but then came back up. I read some more and decided that the security thing was overhyped and not that hard to fix, and the ease of use would make a good bet, so I got back in and made back what I lost plus 10%. So, even included my loses on the more established GE and Boeing stocks I'm up 23% over 3 weeks.

Sorry if that seems like a brag, but I wanted to talk to someone about it and it stresses my wife out and non of my friends are in individual stocks.

It's pretty much gambling although more between poker and blackjack than pure luck roulette or slots.

What brokerage do you use?

 

[Elixir]

It's pretty much gambling although more between poker and blackjack than pure luck roulette or slots.

Only not as much fun.

There are ETF's that would allow you to be more broadly invested, which helps to not pooch yourself as well. Or you can play airlines with something like the JETS ETF; that one has me tempted, but I'm not biting yet. I did ZM in mid Feb, and finally bailed out today. On the oops side, I bought Disney on 6 Jan, liking what I saw in the company for the long term; and then went oh Covfefe-19 on 27 Jan and cut my losses. And I don't day trade...

Sounds like work. Since I retired, it's been hard to convince Mrs Elixir that it's okay for me to go anywhere near the nest egg, which has sat slowly gaining in tax-exempt bond funds. But I twisted her arm and jumped into some broad equity funds (because I'm so adventurous - not!) with some of it in mid March. That's been good so far, but the main premise is that it won't be needed for at least a couple of years. That's how much I'm willing to think (read: worry) about it. In past years seeing a public Company where I know people, they're doing really well and the people I know are insisting it's a great buy would be irresistable. I've won on those kinds of bets in the past, but also lost.
Poker should be fun.

 

[funinspace]

It's pretty much gambling although more between poker and blackjack than pure luck roulette or slots.

Only not as much fun.

Had to fix the above quote as it wasn't my comment...Personally, I'm the other way, as I find following market trends/economics interesting. I've tried gambling twice and found it boring/dumb, being on par with flushing dollar bills slowly down the toilet.

There are ETF's that would allow you to be more broadly invested, which helps to not pooch yourself as well. Or you can play airlines with something like the JETS ETF; that one has me tempted, but I'm not biting yet. I did ZM in mid Feb, and finally bailed out today. On the oops side, I bought Disney on 6 Jan, liking what I saw in the company for the long term; and then went oh Covfefe-19 on 27 Jan and cut my losses. And I don't day trade...

Sounds like work. Since I retired, it's been hard to convince Mrs Elixir that it's okay for me to go anywhere near the nest egg, which has sat slowly gaining in tax-exempt bond funds. But I twisted her arm and jumped into some broad equity funds (because I'm so adventurous - not!) with some of it in mid March. That's been good so far, but the main premise is that it won't be needed for at least a couple of years. That's how much I'm willing to think (read: worry) about it. In past years seeing a public Company where I know people, they're doing really well and the people I know are insisting it's a great buy would be irresistable. I've won on those kinds of bets in the past, but also lost.
Poker should be fun.

I'm 58, and semi-retired. Our IRA's/savings is my retirement (well until SS adds to it). I switched to working part time after my last FT contract job ended in 2018, as I didn't want to start commuting again and the whole big job thing. It's kind of like a sign "will work for health care" via LLC tax protection. I have about a 1/3 in various bonds, a third in more broad based investment vehicles, and I play with a third thinking I'm smarter than a fruit cake.

Ironically, I had to unlearn my dad's constant negativity to stock investments, it took about 15-20 years as I thought my engineering background wasn't up to his. He had a business degree and spent 30 years as a bank branch manager. He always/only showed me negative articles from the WJS et.al growing up. Yet he was about a 35-40% in stocks most all the time, but very tight lipped about his money until his last years. Oh, and his records were a mess (and nothing hinted it was better in the past) when he let me take over.

 

[Elixir]

Had to fix the above quote as it wasn't my comment...Personally, I'm the other way, as I find following market trends/economics interesting. I've tried gambling twice and found it boring/dumb, being on par with flushing dollar bills slowly down the toilet.

There are ETF's that would allow you to be more broadly invested, which helps to not pooch yourself as well. Or you can play airlines with something like the JETS ETF; that one has me tempted, but I'm not biting yet. I did ZM in mid Feb, and finally bailed out today. On the oops side, I bought Disney on 6 Jan, liking what I saw in the company for the long term; and then went oh Covfefe-19 on 27 Jan and cut my losses. And I don't day trade...

Sounds like work. Since I retired, it's been hard to convince Mrs Elixir that it's okay for me to go anywhere near the nest egg, which has sat slowly gaining in tax-exempt bond funds. But I twisted her arm and jumped into some broad equity funds (because I'm so adventurous - not!) with some of it in mid March. That's been good so far, but the main premise is that it won't be needed for at least a couple of years. That's how much I'm willing to think (read: worry) about it. In past years seeing a public Company where I know people, they're doing really well and the people I know are insisting it's a great buy would be irresistable. I've won on those kinds of bets in the past, but also lost.
Poker should be fun.

I'm 58, and semi-retired. Our IRA's/savings is my retirement (well until SS adds to it). I switched to working part time after my last FT contract job ended in 2018, as I didn't want to start commuting again and the whole big job thing. It's kind of like a sign "will work for health care" via LLC tax protection. I have about a 1/3 in various bonds, a third in more broad based investment vehicles, and I play with a third thinking I'm smarter than a fruit cake.

Ironically, I had to unlearn my dad's constant negativity to stock investments, it took about 15-20 years as I thought my engineering background wasn't up to his. He had a business degree and spent 30 years as a bank branch manager. He always/only showed me negative articles from the WJS et.al growing up. Yet he was about a 35-40% in stocks most all the time, but very tight lipped about his money until his last years. Oh, and his records were a mess (and nothing hinted it was better in the past) when he let me take over.

Sounds like solid ground to me... but then again, anyone who can criticize someone else's record keeping is way ahead of me. That's one reason I'm gun shy - I suck at keeping records and think of organizing finances as minutes/hours of my time I'll never get back. I've gotten a little better in recent years, but still terrible. My approach to finances has always been that it sucks to spend ANY time just to make money, keep track of money, or worry about money. I've had to do my share of all of it, but have hated every minute of it. I don't fancy money enough to ever be rich, but I want to be comfortable and to be able to have the few (compared to most people I know whether they're wealthy or not) things I actually want. So I've tried to find a fun thing or two that make enough money so I don't have to tax my brain trying to maximize it in order to have "enough" left over after being irresponsible with records, a little too loose 'lending' to others, not shopping hard for discounts etc. Been lucky enough to skate by with that attitude so far, and find that with SS, Medicare and no debt whatsoever, it's not taking a lot to maintain the lifestyle to which I am accustomed. Except horses. Horses are the boats of the land. So I'll have to give that up eventually unless I get lucky again.
Watching the markets is interesting but actively playing in them, not so much. And less and less so as I get older. YMMV of course.

 

[ronburgundy]

I'm certainly not a "day trader" but count me among those just getting into the marke. I've had money sitting in Money Market accounts making about 1.5% for a decade. I've never bought a stock in my life. As odd as it seems, I made my first foray into the market 3 weeks ago just as many were getting out of their equities. It's gone well. I only invested a total of $10,000 so far. I took some bad advice and lost a few hundred between Boeing and GE, both of which I now got out of b/c they look to drop even further and their recovery is likely to take years (people will not be traveling for leisure as much even when allowed). However, I knew that some stocks would benefit from everyone being quarantined. I started with Netflix, which had lost 25% of their value in early March along with everything else. But they were starting to rise again due to more people being on lockdown. It's up 30% from where I bought. Similar with Roku, which is up 40% from where I bought. Zoom was more complicated. I bought a week prior to the news about their security issues which I didn't find out about until 2 days later and had already lost about 10%. I got out thinking it was a death sentence and it did drop another 10% but then came back up. I read some more and decided that the security thing was overhyped and not that hard to fix, and the ease of use would make a good bet, so I got back in and made back what I lost plus 10%. So, even included my loses on the more established GE and Boeing stocks I'm up 23% over 3 weeks.

Sorry if that seems like a brag, but I wanted to talk to someone about it and it stresses my wife out and non of my friends are in individual stocks.

It's pretty much gambling although more between poker and blackjack than pure luck roulette or slots.

What brokerage do you use?

TD Ameritrade, but I had no basis for that choice. Do you suggest something else?

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm certainly not a "day trader" but count me among those just getting into the marke. I've had money sitting in Money Market accounts making about 1.5% for a decade. I've never bought a stock in my life. As odd as it seems, I made my first foray into the market 3 weeks ago just as many were getting out of their equities. It's gone well. I only invested a total of $10,000 so far. I took some bad advice and lost a few hundred between Boeing and GE, both of which I now got out of b/c they look to drop even further and their recovery is likely to take years (people will not be traveling for leisure as much even when allowed). However, I knew that some stocks would benefit from everyone being quarantined. I started with Netflix, which had lost 25% of their value in early March along with everything else. But they were starting to rise again due to more people being on lockdown. It's up 30% from where I bought. Similar with Roku, which is up 40% from where I bought. Zoom was more complicated. I bought a week prior to the news about their security issues which I didn't find out about until 2 days later and had already lost about 10%. I got out thinking it was a death sentence and it did drop another 10% but then came back up. I read some more and decided that the security thing was overhyped and not that hard to fix, and the ease of use would make a good bet, so I got back in and made back what I lost plus 10%. So, even included my loses on the more established GE and Boeing stocks I'm up 23% over 3 weeks.

Sorry if that seems like a brag, but I wanted to talk to someone about it and it stresses my wife out and non of my friends are in individual stocks.

It's pretty much gambling although more between poker and blackjack than pure luck roulette or slots.

What brokerage do you use?

TD Ameritrade, but I had no basis for that choice. Do you suggest something else?

Nope, just thinking with the extra money coming in I thought I might do a little dabbling in the markets myself. First we've got to get my wife a new (to her) car. <grumble>

 

[TV and credit cards]

Oil is sliding. We’re gonna have anchored tankers. Look at May contracts. I guess you can’t pay refiners to take their crude.

Stay sheltered my friends.

 

[funinspace]

Just wow, Clownstick is making noise about renewed trade wars with China, smack in the middle of this pandemic driven economic crisis...FUCK THE STUPID (Yeah which thread to add this too...). Sure hope history doesn't rhyme...with 90 years ago.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...after-trump-revives-u-s-china-trade-war-fears

 

[ZiprHead]

The U.S. plans to lend $500 billion to large companies. It won’t require them to preserve jobs or limit executive pay.
The Fed’s coronavirus aid program lacks restrictions Congress placed on companies seeking financial help under other programs

A Federal Reserve program expected to begin within weeks will provide hundreds of billions in emergency aid to large American corporations without requiring them to save jobs or limit payments to executives and shareholders.

Under the program, the central bank will buy up to $500 billion in bonds issued by large companies. The companies will use the influx of cash as a financial lifeline but are required to pay it back with interest.

Unlike other portions of the relief for American businesses, however, this aid will be exempt from rules passed by Congress requiring recipients to limit dividends, executive compensation and stock buybacks and does not direct the companies to maintain certain employment levels.

 

[Elixir]

The U.S. plans to lend $500 billion to large companies. It won’t require them to preserve jobs or limit executive pay.
The Fed’s coronavirus aid program lacks restrictions Congress placed on companies seeking financial help under other programs

How else is a corrupt, unpopular political party supposed to survive in a democracy?
There's no way. You have to stuff the donors' pockets so they can stuff yours.