The US National Popular Vote is a little bit closer

[Gospel]

For a whole lot of people in the US, they align with whichever party opposes a value or principle which they hate.

What precise terminology do we use to label the objects of our aversion, and what is the root of such disdain?

Phobias?
Pet peeves?
Personal experiences?
Cultural or societal norms?
Natural instincts?
Evolutionary responses?

I chose the term "values" purposefully as it encompasses the notion of voting against certain principles held by others. This is due to the fact that for some individuals, it aligns with their own values to oppose these differing beliefs.

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

We see it as evil when our political opponents demonize people of color, foreigners, LGBTQIA+. It’s not less evil to demonize those we disagree with.

"Those we disagree with"?

You're creating a false equivalence here. If I call Hitler a "monster", does that make me "not less evil" than Hitler?

A Nazi's hatred of Jews, and Jewish person's hatred of Nazis are not equivalent kinds of hate. One is totally irrational and one is eminently justified.

It's a bit flippant to rhetorically reduce the political divide in this country to mere "disagreement". We're dealing with bigotry and persecution of minorities vs civil rights and equality.

 

[TomC]

@Gospel

Can y'all split off the derail?
JAQ
Tom

 

[Elixir]

Is it genuinely your view that every single Republican in the US absolutely loves and worships Trump and actually for-realsies promotes fascism?

Of course not! Why do you persist in that silliness?
I have specified trumpsuckers and Republican politicians as those I believe to be most evil. And believe it or not, that’s not an absolute either. Some trump voters are more evil than others IMO, but they are ALL furthering evil to some greater or lesser degree. I do know a few Republicans who are neither trumpsuckers nor politicos - but of course, they too are disenchanted with The Party, mostly refusing to support its “leadership” and refusing to vote for trump while supporting downballot Repugs. Less evil, IMO

 

[Toni]

I am very concerned because I do think it is possible that there could be another civil war here in the US. Whether there is or is not, we are stronger together than we are divided.

I share your concern. We lack a common purpose now that Trump has gotten the evil ones to conflate Trump with America.
LISTEN to him some time. Every time he utters “America”, substitute “me” and the sentence will make sense. And his EVIL/IGNORANT followers believe him.

I think this is art of the great urban/rural-small town divide. People feel overlooked, disrespected, liked down upon. Passed by. Irrelevant. They may be proud of their kids’ fancy education but they fear their kids are a little ashamed of them.

That’s fear and that’s grief. I cannot help but feel a tremendous amount of sympathy. Very few that I know dislike or are suspicious of dark skinned people they know personally. But all of us have a tendency to attach bad characteristics to ‘others’. Remember the line from Fargo: ‘ Must not be from around here? ‘

That’s universal. So we shouldn’t get too high and mighty about who we consider the bad guys.

 

[ZiprHead]

That would be a problem, except for the fact that if you vote Republican, you're with THOSE EVIL PEOPLE!!!!"
I thought Dick Nixon and the Bush Baby were evil, but would not have said that about their voters. The current Republican party is different: their leadership actually wants to destroy American democracy. In my book, that puts their supporters in a whole other category.

So sayeth Torquemada: Convert or burn.

You can't convert fascists. It's better to burn them.

The party of tolerance and liberty at work...

You tolerate fascists???

I don't think they would return the favor.

 

[TomC]

Is it genuinely your view that every single Republican in the US absolutely loves and worships Trump and actually for-realsies promotes fascism?

Pretty much.

There are Republicans. Then there are RINOs. Principled conservatives, like Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney, are no longer Republicans. They are RINOs.

The difference is important.
Tom

 

[Emily Lake]

For a whole lot of people in the US, they align with whichever party opposes a value or principle which they hate.

What precise terminology do we use to label the objects of our aversion, and what is the root of such disdain?

Phobias?
Pet peeves?
Personal experiences?
Cultural or societal norms?
Natural instincts?
Evolutionary responses?

I chose the term "values" purposefully as it encompasses the notion of voting against certain principles held by others. This is due to the fact that for some individuals, it aligns with their own values to oppose these differing beliefs.

I wasn't really disagreeing with you, more using your post as a jumping off point.

With the way you framed it, it gives a wide open door for someone to come back and say "See, Republicans are aligning themselves because they value racism and bigotry and fascism!!!!" Which isn't at all true. Sure, some Republicans could probably be described that way, but a whole lot of them aren't exactly aligning themselves with Republican values, so much as they're standing against what they see as Democratic values that they see as harmful.

It's no different for many of the posters here - there are at least a few who have aligned themselves with Democrats, not because they are enamored of Democratic policies and values, but because they are opposed to what they view as Republican policies and values.

All I really want is for everyone to remember that these are all real people, with real complex lives and many competing needs and priorities... and that at the end of the day, very very few people in either party can be described as "evil". And doing so is lazy tribalism.

 

[Emily Lake]

That would be a problem, except for the fact that if you vote Republican, you're with THOSE EVIL PEOPLE!!!!"
I thought Dick Nixon and the Bush Baby were evil, but would not have said that about their voters. The current Republican party is different: their leadership actually wants to destroy American democracy. In my book, that puts their supporters in a whole other category.

So sayeth Torquemada: Convert or burn.

You can't convert fascists. It's better to burn them.

The party of tolerance and liberty at work...

You tolerate fascists???

I don't think they would return the favor.

The term "fascist" is way overused, and I don't think it's accurate. The Republican party isn't a fascist party.

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

All I really want is for everyone to remember that these are all real people, with real complex lives and many competing needs and priorities... and that at the end of the day, very very few people in either party can be described as "evil".

One thing that I would like for everyone to remember is that Germans who supported the Nazi party in the 1920s and '30s were also real people with complex lives and many competing priorities. And yet their ideology led to genocide on an industrial scale, and the biggest, deadliest war in human history, which resulted in 70 million dead and entire cities reduced to rubble and ash and piles of corpses.

"Bothsidesing" and coddling fascists achieves nothing good. It only helps them, while the targets of their bigotry suffer.

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

The term "fascist" is way overused, and I don't think it's accurate. The Republican party isn't a fascist party.

MAGA is unequivocally a fascist movement, and it is now the dominant wing of the Republicans party. The more traditional, conservative wing of the party may not be fascist, but at this point it's fair to call them collaborators.

 

[TomC]

The term "fascist" is way overused, and I don't think it's accurate. The Republican party isn't a fascist party.

I didn't think so either, until the last few years.
Now I do.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That would be a problem, except for the fact that if you vote Republican, you're with THOSE EVIL PEOPLE!!!!"
I thought Dick Nixon and the Bush Baby were evil, but would not have said that about their voters. The current Republican party is different: their leadership actually wants to destroy American democracy. In my book, that puts their supporters in a whole other category.

So sayeth Torquemada: Convert or burn.

You can't convert fascists. It's better to burn them.

The party of tolerance and liberty at work...

You tolerate fascists???

I don't think they would return the favor.

The term "fascist" is way overused, and I don't think it's accurate. The Republican party isn't a fascist party.

No, Trump is the alt-right fascist. Might have noticed the riot he incited after losing the election. The one his brownshirts participated in.

And the Republicans nearly in lockstep voted for that asshole... and will do so again.

 

[ZiprHead]

That would be a problem, except for the fact that if you vote Republican, you're with THOSE EVIL PEOPLE!!!!"
I thought Dick Nixon and the Bush Baby were evil, but would not have said that about their voters. The current Republican party is different: their leadership actually wants to destroy American democracy. In my book, that puts their supporters in a whole other category.

So sayeth Torquemada: Convert or burn.

You can't convert fascists. It's better to burn them.

The party of tolerance and liberty at work...

You tolerate fascists???

I don't think they would return the favor.

The term "fascist" is way overused, and I don't think it's accurate. The Republican party isn't a fascist party.

fascism​

noun​

fas·cism ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm
also ˈfa-ˌsi-

Synonyms of fascism
1
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2
: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

What there is not present in today's Republican party?

 

[Elixir]

The term "fascist" is way overused, and I don't think it's accurate. The Republican party isn't a fascist party.

I didn't think so either, until the last few years.
Now I do.
Tom

Ditto. I thought they were assholes, dating back to Nixon. But not fascists.
By formal definition (Zipr’s post), today Republicans seem to walk and quack exactly like that duck.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The term "fascist" is way overused, and I don't think it's accurate. The Republican party isn't a fascist party.

I didn't think so either, until the last few years.
Now I do.
Tom

Ditto. I thought they were assholes, dating back to Nixon. But not fascists.
By formal definition (Zipr’s post), today Republicans seem to walk and quack exactly like that duck.

Yup, they're waddling and quacking.