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The Wall

pelosi.jpg


Is it legal for Pelosi to own a pet owl?
 
bleubird said:
More terrorist have been caught at the Canadian border than the Mexican border.
Click to expand...

And the majority of illegals in this country are here because their visa's expired and they didn't leave. Also, the vast, vast majority of illegal drugs arrive via legal entry points.

But why don't the dems float the idea that if Trumpo wants his wall they can advance an increase in taxes to pay for it. Or start a GoFundMe campaign, rabid right wingers will mortgage their houses to pay for their beloved wall. Right?
 
Elixir said:
4321lynx said:
OK. I get all of this. Trump is a lying idiot. The Wall is his "baby". I agree.

But walls in China and Britain worked thousands of years ago to keep out some violent would-be "immigrants." Even the wall built by the murderous morose morons running the Soviets worked for some time in keeping the bulk of the would-be Emigrants IN that system. Not completely and not for ever, but the walls worked.

My question is, do you want to control immigration, discourage illegal immigration and give priority to legal immigrants? If so, then how do you propose to do it without a barrier of some kind?

There is an endless supply of humans living in hopeless poverty and danger in many shitty countries down there, south of the southern border of the USA, and most would jump at any chance to get to the USA, and the supply will not dry up, and any hope of improvement in those countries is non-existent given the criminal organizations and government corruption.

So how do youassure fair legal immigration?

I speak with some experience of the matter, given that some years ago I was personally a refugee from the Soviet morons, and more recently lived 18 months in one of the best countries in S America, awaiting through the process of obtaining a Canadian Resident visa for my wife, a citizen of that country.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest (to nobody in particular) that drones, cell towers and other hi-tech tools be financed to the tune of a couple billion, and a few billion more to staffing - asylum court judges, application processing etc..
If there's anything left over, use it for better drug interdiction at ports of entry and to better enable the Coast Guard to deal with the submarines and fast boats that carry most of the contraband into the US.
Click to expand...

But Trump has been branded a racist since the beginning largely for asking for the wall, because its purpose is to "keep the brown people out". Your solution is also intended to "keep the brown people out", as well, but does it through different means. Is your proposal "not racist" for some reason, and if not, why not?
 
thebeave said:
Elixir said:
4321lynx said:
OK. I get all of this. Trump is a lying idiot. The Wall is his "baby". I agree.

But walls in China and Britain worked thousands of years ago to keep out some violent would-be "immigrants." Even the wall built by the murderous morose morons running the Soviets worked for some time in keeping the bulk of the would-be Emigrants IN that system. Not completely and not for ever, but the walls worked.

My question is, do you want to control immigration, discourage illegal immigration and give priority to legal immigrants? If so, then how do you propose to do it without a barrier of some kind?

There is an endless supply of humans living in hopeless poverty and danger in many shitty countries down there, south of the southern border of the USA, and most would jump at any chance to get to the USA, and the supply will not dry up, and any hope of improvement in those countries is non-existent given the criminal organizations and government corruption.

So how do youassure fair legal immigration?

I speak with some experience of the matter, given that some years ago I was personally a refugee from the Soviet morons, and more recently lived 18 months in one of the best countries in S America, awaiting through the process of obtaining a Canadian Resident visa for my wife, a citizen of that country.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest (to nobody in particular) that drones, cell towers and other hi-tech tools be financed to the tune of a couple billion, and a few billion more to staffing - asylum court judges, application processing etc..
If there's anything left over, use it for better drug interdiction at ports of entry and to better enable the Coast Guard to deal with the submarines and fast boats that carry most of the contraband into the US.
Click to expand...

But Trump has been branded a racist since the beginning largely for asking for the wall, because its purpose is to "keep the brown people out". Your solution is also intended to "keep the brown people out", as well, but does it through different means. Is your proposal "not racist" for some reason, and if not, why not?
Click to expand...

ORANGE MAN BAD
 
https://qz.com/1516960/trump-speech...ney-he-already-has/?utm_source=YPL&yptr=yahoo

What the US has spent on the border

Trump’s administration has so far spent just 6% of the $1.6 billion allocated for any physical barrier upgrades on the southern border in the fiscal 2017 and 2018 budgets, according to calculations by Senate Democrats, including /news/minority/statement-of-senate-appropriations-Patrick Leahy of Vermont:

....

So the lil bugger has money he doesn't know how to use. And still has not offered up a detailed plan what he plans to do with $5 1/2 billion. Trump is an idiot.
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
https://qz.com/1516960/trump-speech...ney-he-already-has/?utm_source=YPL&yptr=yahoo

What the US has spent on the border

Trump’s administration has so far spent just 6% of the $1.6 billion allocated for any physical barrier upgrades on the southern border in the fiscal 2017 and 2018 budgets, according to calculations by Senate Democrats, including /news/minority/statement-of-senate-appropriations-Patrick Leahy of Vermont:

....

So the lil bugger has money he doesn't know how to use. And still has not offered up a detailed plan what he plans to do with $5 1/2 billion. Trump is an idiot.
Click to expand...

Or a genius forcing Democrats to discuss an issue they often lose; security. 2020 will be here soon.
 
Derec said:
The phrase "build the Wall" is a bit simplistic and was created for the campaign where such slogans tend to work real well. I mean, what really does "yes, we can" mean anyway whe you get down to details?

That said, it is absolutely necessary to greatly improve the physical barrier at the southern border. When women 8 months pregnant and people carrying children can cross it with relative ease, it becomes more than clear that the existing barriers are insufficient.
That doesn't mean a West Bank style wall over the entire length of the border of course, but it might be needful on certain stretches. Elsewhere, a Gaza style fence might suffice.
Note that a better physical barrier is necessary, but hardly sufficient. It is a part of a complete system that does not work without the other parts such as electronic surveillance and actual human patrols. But most important improvement has to be legal. As long as anybody who illegally enters gets to stay here for years just by using the magic word "asylum" it gives a huge incentive for people to breach any physical barrier. So border patrol must be given the power to push back any illegals it catches crossing the border for example. In general, it should be easier to deport illegals, especially but not limited to criminal illegals. Unfortunately, "sanctuary cities" are hell-bent on protecting illegals from deportation even those who have committed other crimes.

The barriers Israel uses would not be very useful either if Israel had to give any Palestinians who breach them the status of "asylum seeker" either.
Asylum is an important tool, but it has become useless because anybody can claim it. It was intended to be an exception, to protect people fleeing real prosecution. Lack of jobs, violent husband, or high crime rate in one's city are not real grounds for asylum.
Click to expand...

The racist message he attached to the project is why he won't get the Democrats votes. It's not even about whether it will work or not.

It probably would not have made a noticeable difference anyway. The problem appears to be the backlog of immigrants to process, not people running across the border. I pay attention to certain parts of US culture that pertain to my personal interests, and this invasion of illegals just doesn't come up outside of Republican/conservative sources. No one else seems to have this "problem". Even here in my small town in Canada, we have the "Immigrants Are Taking Over" crowd, and yet I doubt few of them has ever met an immigrant. I think it's not only imagined, but as other are saying - a fear tactic used for deviant political practices.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
bleubird said:
More terrorist have been caught at the Canadian border than the Mexican border.
Click to expand...

And the majority of illegals in this country are here because their visa's expired and they didn't leave.
Click to expand...
I heard Cuomo and Lemon say that and I would like some proof of that. And it's worse, both tried to imply that these people with expired visas are from Europe, which is flat out ridiculous. I can see Mexicans using some visotor's visas to get to US but Europeans.... give me a break.
And Lemon in particular have expressed his views against legal (!!!) immigration.
Also equating overstaying visa with illegal crossing a border is very disingenuous on many levels.
Lost paperwork can make you illegal. And from a technical point of view overstaying is not really a problem, because you deport a person and deny visa next time, whereas you can't do the same with illegal crossing of the border.
.....
OK, I fact checked and it turns out that phrase "And the majority of illegals in this country are here because their visa's expired and they didn't leave." is patently FALSE.
Also, the vast, vast majority of illegal drugs arrive via legal entry points.
Click to expand...
Some proof of that would be greatly appreciated as well.
 
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thebeave said:
Elixir said:
4321lynx said:
OK. I get all of this. Trump is a lying idiot. The Wall is his "baby". I agree.

But walls in China and Britain worked thousands of years ago to keep out some violent would-be "immigrants." Even the wall built by the murderous morose morons running the Soviets worked for some time in keeping the bulk of the would-be Emigrants IN that system. Not completely and not for ever, but the walls worked.

My question is, do you want to control immigration, discourage illegal immigration and give priority to legal immigrants? If so, then how do you propose to do it without a barrier of some kind?

There is an endless supply of humans living in hopeless poverty and danger in many shitty countries down there, south of the southern border of the USA, and most would jump at any chance to get to the USA, and the supply will not dry up, and any hope of improvement in those countries is non-existent given the criminal organizations and government corruption.

So how do youassure fair legal immigration?

I speak with some experience of the matter, given that some years ago I was personally a refugee from the Soviet morons, and more recently lived 18 months in one of the best countries in S America, awaiting through the process of obtaining a Canadian Resident visa for my wife, a citizen of that country.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest (to nobody in particular) that drones, cell towers and other hi-tech tools be financed to the tune of a couple billion, and a few billion more to staffing - asylum court judges, application processing etc..
If there's anything left over, use it for better drug interdiction at ports of entry and to better enable the Coast Guard to deal with the submarines and fast boats that carry most of the contraband into the US.
Click to expand...

But Trump has been branded a racist since the beginning largely for asking for the wall, because its purpose is to "keep the brown people out". Your solution is also intended to "keep the brown people out", as well, but does it through different means. Is your proposal "not racist" for some reason, and if not, why not?
Click to expand...

It's not racist and I resent the implication. You brought race up, it's you who considers the people down there as "brown". Does that make you a racist?

However I got to know the ways of several countries and their inhabitants in my stay there, hence my opinion, backed up by history, that the place is a collection of countries with politics that are best described as basket cases. And if you want to find racists par excellence look at any country in South America, get to know the people, not the tourist sites. I admit it's not easy. You have to get past the "mi casa, su casa", the good manners, or past the fact that you're a Gringo' or the risk of robbery and worse, and see what hides behind all those.

So what to do with economic migrants from there? Does anyone think that uncontrolled movement of people will be the answer to all Western hemisphere problems? The problems of poverty South of the US border? That the immigrants will be absorbed in one generation? That they will not turn the US or big parts of it into a bigger basket case than it, the US, already is? Is the Wall, or opposition to it the only thing that unites the Dems? The only hope for a victory in 2020?

I repeat that I get what Trump is and stands for. It was a great shock to me that he won the election down in the USA. I do not approve of most things he's done, some of them impeachable things IMO but I think he's right in the idea of a "Wall" or barrier of some sort, if you want to control what happens to the legal immigrants and to your country.
 
After watching some of the 'speech' given last night by FFvC, I have to wonder if a alien space lizard has taken over his body. He looked as natural, as someone possessed, as he haltingly read the speech someone gave him...
 
thebeave said:
Elixir said:
4321lynx said:
OK. I get all of this. Trump is a lying idiot. The Wall is his "baby". I agree.

But walls in China and Britain worked thousands of years ago to keep out some violent would-be "immigrants." Even the wall built by the murderous morose morons running the Soviets worked for some time in keeping the bulk of the would-be Emigrants IN that system. Not completely and not for ever, but the walls worked.

My question is, do you want to control immigration, discourage illegal immigration and give priority to legal immigrants? If so, then how do you propose to do it without a barrier of some kind?

There is an endless supply of humans living in hopeless poverty and danger in many shitty countries down there, south of the southern border of the USA, and most would jump at any chance to get to the USA, and the supply will not dry up, and any hope of improvement in those countries is non-existent given the criminal organizations and government corruption.

So how do youassure fair legal immigration?

I speak with some experience of the matter, given that some years ago I was personally a refugee from the Soviet morons, and more recently lived 18 months in one of the best countries in S America, awaiting through the process of obtaining a Canadian Resident visa for my wife, a citizen of that country.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest (to nobody in particular) that drones, cell towers and other hi-tech tools be financed to the tune of a couple billion, and a few billion more to staffing - asylum court judges, application processing etc..
If there's anything left over, use it for better drug interdiction at ports of entry and to better enable the Coast Guard to deal with the submarines and fast boats that carry most of the contraband into the US.
Click to expand...

But Trump has been branded a racist since the beginning largely for asking for the wall, because its purpose is to "keep the brown people out".
Click to expand...

No, not because its purpose is to keep brown people out, because it's STUPID, ineffective and a waste of money. It wouldn't keep brown people out in any event, just make some of their lives even worse..

Your solution is also intended to "keep the brown people out", as well, but does it through different means.
Click to expand...

Nope. Spending a few billion on judges and claims processing would alleviate conditions for all of the people being held in concentration camps on both sides of the border. But you knew that, right? Apparently you don't like the idea that there are deserving people who might be approved and let into "your" country, so you paint that idea as racist ... somehow. And of course, with the backlog cleared, even more would be encouraged to apply. Oh, the horror!!

Is your proposal "not racist" for some reason, and if not, why not?
Click to expand...

See above, and read for comprehension.

Trausti said:
ORANGE MAN BAD
Click to expand...

Blind squirrel finds acorn!
Yes, your orange man IS bad. But that's hardly the point. Thanks for the information though....
 
4321lynx said:
thebeave said:
But Trump has been branded a racist since the beginning largely for asking for the wall, because its purpose is to "keep the brown people out". Your solution is also intended to "keep the brown people out", as well, but does it through different means. Is your proposal "not racist" for some reason, and if not, why not?
Click to expand...

It's not racist and I resent the implication. You brought race up, it's you who considers the people down there as "brown". Does that make you a racist?

However I got to know the ways of several countries and their inhabitants in my stay there, hence my opinion, backed up by history, that the place is a collection of countries with politics that are best described as basket cases. And if you want to find racists par excellence look at any country in South America, get to know the people, not the tourist sites. I admit it's not easy. You have to get past the "mi casa, su casa", the good manners, or past the fact that you're a Gringo' or the risk of robbery and worse, and see what hides behind all those.

So what to do with economic migrants from there? Does anyone think that uncontrolled movement of people will be the answer to all Western hemisphere problems? The problems of poverty South of the US border? That the immigrants will be absorbed in one generation? That they will not turn the US or big parts of it into a bigger basket case than it, the US, already is? Is the Wall, or opposition to it the only thing that unites the Dems? The only hope for a victory in 2020?

I repeat that I get what Trump is and stands for. It was a great shock to me that he won the election down in the USA. I do not approve of most things he's done, some of them impeachable things IMO but I think he's right in the idea of a "Wall" or barrier of some sort, if you want to control what happens to the legal immigrants and to your country.
Click to expand...

My response was to Elixir comments, not you. I largely agree with you. I don't think desiring a wall, or border security in any form is necessarily racist. I was just pointing out a little contradiction and bias in his thinking (or at least the thinking of many on the left).
 
thebeave said:
4321lynx said:
thebeave said:
But Trump has been branded a racist since the beginning largely for asking for the wall, because its purpose is to "keep the brown people out". Your solution is also intended to "keep the brown people out", as well, but does it through different means. Is your proposal "not racist" for some reason, and if not, why not?
Click to expand...

It's not racist and I resent the implication. You brought race up, it's you who considers the people down there as "brown". Does that make you a racist?

However I got to know the ways of several countries and their inhabitants in my stay there, hence my opinion, backed up by history, that the place is a collection of countries with politics that are best described as basket cases. And if you want to find racists par excellence look at any country in South America, get to know the people, not the tourist sites. I admit it's not easy. You have to get past the "mi casa, su casa", the good manners, or past the fact that you're a Gringo' or the risk of robbery and worse, and see what hides behind all those.

So what to do with economic migrants from there? Does anyone think that uncontrolled movement of people will be the answer to all Western hemisphere problems? The problems of poverty South of the US border? That the immigrants will be absorbed in one generation? That they will not turn the US or big parts of it into a bigger basket case than it, the US, already is? Is the Wall, or opposition to it the only thing that unites the Dems? The only hope for a victory in 2020?

I repeat that I get what Trump is and stands for. It was a great shock to me that he won the election down in the USA. I do not approve of most things he's done, some of them impeachable things IMO but I think he's right in the idea of a "Wall" or barrier of some sort, if you want to control what happens to the legal immigrants and to your country.
Click to expand...

My response was to Elixir comments, not you. I largely agree with you. I don't think desiring a wall, or border security in any form is necessarily racist. I was just pointing out a little contradiction and bias in his thinking (or at least the thinking of many on the left).
Click to expand...

You TRIED to paint the idea of expedited processing of applications as racist.
FAIL better.

Did someone convince you that the "true left" position is, as Shitgibbon keeps telling you, OPEN BORDERS! ???
Or was that a disingenuous slam on those who would criticize Dear Racist Leader?
 
Elixir said:
thebeave said:
My response was to Elixir comments, not you. I largely agree with you. I don't think desiring a wall, or border security in any form is necessarily racist. I was just pointing out a little contradiction and bias in his thinking (or at least the thinking of many on the left).
Click to expand...

You TRIED to paint the idea of expedited processing of applications as racist.
FAIL better.

Did someone convince you that the "true left" position is, as Shitgibbon keeps telling you, OPEN BORDERS! ???
Or was that a disingenuous slam on those who would criticize Dear Racist Leader?
Click to expand...

I think I'm being misunderstood. First of all, I'm not making any comment on whether the wall is the right or wrong way to achieve border security, nor am I saying expedited processing of applications is racist. Processing of applications for citizenship is not an issue relating to keeping people out. Its for those who are already here and want to become citizens legally.

Look at it this way. If you were to ask random people on the street what makes Donald Trump a racist, a whole lot of them (probably most actually) would say, "Duh, because he wants to build a wall at the border"... particularly those with extreme cases of TDS. People get triggered when he and his supporters say "Build the wall, build the wall!". Perhaps you don't get triggered by that, so sorry if I implied that you yourself thought building a wall is racist. I am saying his wanting a wall is seen by many as racist, but apparently other forms of border security (such as drones, cell towers, increased patrols, etc that you suggested) are not racist. By me saying this, I am not suggesting that Open Borders is what the "true left" wants.
 
jonatha said:
barbos said:
Also, the vast, vast majority of illegal drugs arrive via legal entry points.
Click to expand...
Some proof of that would be greatly appreciated as well.
Click to expand...

More data: https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs38/38661/movement.htm

They don't actually break down how much comes through ports of entry and how much comes through the desert. But a wall isn't going to stop contraband that can handle being launched via catapult...
Click to expand...
I do ponder a simple analysis via infrastructure. Just how much in the way of illegal drugs can be hoofed across the desert verses via ports, planes, and boats?
 
I do ponder a simple analysis via infrastructure. Just how much in the way of illegal drugs can be hoofed across the desert verses via ports, planes, and boats?
Click to expand...
Even if the amount is much smaller per car, you can make many car trip s in the time of one cross country trek. So, as it's a volume business, the steady supply would be of greater value than the intermittent bolus.
 
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