The Wall

[barbos]

Also, the vast, vast majority of illegal drugs arrive via legal entry points.

Some proof of that would be greatly appreciated as well.

More data: https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs38/38661/movement.htm

They don't actually break down how much comes through ports of entry and how much comes through the desert. But a wall isn't going to stop contraband that can handle being launched via catapult...

Well, double wall can, cameras can too. The reason I asked for proof is because it's clear to me that going through desert is clearly easier and less risky route for drug trafficking than trying hide drugs in the car and hoping US border people don't see it.

 

[Gun Nut]

.....
OK, I fact checked and it turns out that phrase "And the majority of illegals in this country are here because their visa's expired and they didn't leave." is patently FALSE.

Data: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States#Illegal_entry

Data says 45% came legally and did not leave. 55% came crossed illegally. So Majority came illegally.

.. through legal ports of entry.

Besides being backed by data, it is pure common sense... If you are carrying contraband, you have one thing to worry about. What you have. Where you are is not an issue. If you are carrying contraband AND are crossing illegally (not at a legal port of entry), then you have two things to worry about.
If you are going to break the law, do it carefully... not by advertising your illegal activity by way of being where your not supposed to be.

- - - Updated - - -

More data: https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs38/38661/movement.htm

They don't actually break down how much comes through ports of entry and how much comes through the desert. But a wall isn't going to stop contraband that can handle being launched via catapult...

Well, double wall can, cameras can too. The reason I asked for proof is because it's clear to me that going through desert is clearly easier and less risky route for drug trafficking than trying hide drugs in the car and hoping US border people don't see it.

you might imagine that.... but you would be wrong.

 

[Politesse]

But the orange abomination needs a great and glorious monument to his ego, like the pharaohs of ancient Egypt. It will be an enduring symbol of the bigotry, hatred, ignorance, and greed that destroyed America.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

I hate to break it to you, but history often reveres monuments just as the bloody tyrants who created them desired that they would be revered.

 

[barbos]

Data says 45% came legally and did not leave. 55% came crossed illegally. So Majority came illegally.

.. through legal ports of entry.

Besides being backed by data, it is pure common sense... If you are carrying contraband, you have one thing to worry about. What you have. Where you are is not an issue. If you are carrying contraband AND are crossing illegally (not at a legal port of entry), then you have two things to worry about.
If you are going to break the law, do it carefully... not by advertising your illegal activity by way of being where your not supposed to be.

What are you talking about? I looked the data and it says 55% came illegally.

- - - Updated - - -

More data: https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs38/38661/movement.htm

They don't actually break down how much comes through ports of entry and how much comes through the desert. But a wall isn't going to stop contraband that can handle being launched via catapult...

Well, double wall can, cameras can too. The reason I asked for proof is because it's clear to me that going through desert is clearly easier and less risky route for drug trafficking than trying hide drugs in the car and hoping US border people don't see it.

you might imagine that.... but you would be wrong.

Prove it.

 

[Elixir]

I looked the data and it says 55% came illegally.

"Nearly half" is the quote from Pew Research. I think 45% qualifies. Splitting hairs.

going through desert is clearly easier and less risky route for drug trafficking than trying hide drugs in the car and hoping US border people don't see it.

Prove it. "Clear to me" (someone who isn't here and has probably never been to the SW US border) is hardly definitive.
A person might be able to carry 50-100 lbs of contraband. It would take hundreds of them to equal one submarine. It's not a big problem.

 

[4321lynx]

I looked the data and it says 55% came illegally.

"Nearly half" is the quote from Pew Research. I think 45% qualifies. Splitting hairs.

going through desert is clearly easier and less risky route for drug trafficking than trying hide drugs in the car and hoping US border people don't see it.

Prove it. "Clear to me" (someone who isn't here and has probably never been to the SW US border) is hardly definitive.
A person might be able to carry 50-100 lbs of contraband. It would take hundreds of them to equal one submarine. It's not a big problem.

Using the lowest figures from your statement above.

Let's say 50 lbs only per person. Hundreds means more than one hundred, let's say 200
So 50x200 = 10,000 lbs at minimum figures, according to you.
You are saying that one "Smuggler's Sub" carrying a crew can bring 10,000 lbs of drugs "no problem". The US Navy and Coastguard are no problem? Cannot detect smuggling submarines of that size? Which you know to exist? And they are going to defend America against China/N Korea/Russia/Iran?
Oh boy!

 

[Gun Nut]

I looked the data and it says 55% came illegally.

"Nearly half" is the quote from Pew Research. I think 45% qualifies. Splitting hairs.

going through desert is clearly easier and less risky route for drug trafficking than trying hide drugs in the car and hoping US border people don't see it.

Prove it. "Clear to me" (someone who isn't here and has probably never been to the SW US border) is hardly definitive.
A person might be able to carry 50-100 lbs of contraband. It would take hundreds of them to equal one submarine. It's not a big problem.

I am a person trained to detect suspicious / criminal activity at points of entry (not borders, buildings). It's part of my job.
The submarine method was highly successful for smuggling in thousands of pounds of contraband.... in the 80's and some of the 90's. Detection technology available today has all but eliminated that means.
It is rare to find someone attempting access with a weapon by any means other than the most popular (front door). Blending in with the crowd is immeasurably more effective than being the only guy for miles around doiing something that no one else is doing. Really easy to find waldo when he's the only one racing across a dessert.
you know there are satellites and shit now... no one goes unseen, for long.
The only use of a fence is to mark territory and have a place for your administrative control... a no trespassing sign. The cameras /satellites are the detective control. Nothing is a preventative control.

 

[Worldtraveller]

OK, I fact checked [.]

Hahaahahahaa.

Excuse me. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa

Oh man, thanks for that. I needed a good laugh.

 

[Worldtraveller]

More data: https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs38/38661/movement.htm

They don't actually break down how much comes through ports of entry and how much comes through the desert. But a wall isn't going to stop contraband that can handle being launched via catapult...

Well, double wall can, cameras can too. The reason I asked for proof is because it's clear to me that going through desert is clearly easier and less risky route for drug trafficking than trying hide drugs in the car and hoping US border people don't see it.

Have you ever spent any time in the desert SW? Cuz this kinda of ignorant assertion makes me certain the answer is no.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

More data: https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs38/38661/movement.htm

They don't actually break down how much comes through ports of entry and how much comes through the desert. But a wall isn't going to stop contraband that can handle being launched via catapult...

Well, double wall can, cameras can too. The reason I asked for proof is because it's clear to me that going through desert is clearly easier and less risky route for drug trafficking than trying hide drugs in the car and hoping US border people don't see it.

Have you ever spent any time in the desert SW? Cuz this kinda of ignorant assertion makes me certain the answer is no.

Also, there's tens of thousands of trucks and cars which go through the border each day. I doubt that the inspection rate ever rises to close to 1%. One drug shipment getting caught is a minimal percentage of what's being sent, so why waste time having people walk through the desert unless you're just a small time independent operator who likes being out in the sun?

 

[Elixir]

The submarine method was highly successful for smuggling in thousands of pounds of contraband.... in the 80's and some of the 90's. Detection technology available today has all but eliminated that means.

Lol! Who told you that? I call bullshit.
Read and learn: The Coast Guard is catching more drug-running subs, but most 'very stealthy' narco subs are probably going undetected (October 2018)

Through September this year (2018), Colombia's navy had captured 14 "narco subs" on the country's Pacific coast — more than triple the four it captured all last year and another sign of drug traffickers' ingenuity.

According to the DEA, Colombia produced as much as 910 metric tons of cocaine in 2016, a 32 percent increase from 2015. By some estimates, one third of that travels via submarines

If that estimate is off by 90%, and only 30 tons of cocaine come in that way, how many poor schlubs with backpacks does that equal?

 

[4321lynx]

The submarine method was highly successful for smuggling in thousands of pounds of contraband.... in the 80's and some of the 90's. Detection technology available today has all but eliminated that means.

Lol! Who told you that? I call bullshit.
Read and learn: The Coast Guard is catching more drug-running subs, but most 'very stealthy' narco subs are probably going undetected (October 2018)

Through September this year (2018), Colombia's navy had captured 14 "narco subs" on the country's Pacific coast — more than triple the four it captured all last year and another sign of drug traffickers' ingenuity.

According to the DEA, Colombia produced as much as 910 metric tons of cocaine in 2016, a 32 percent increase from 2015. By some estimates, one third of that travels via submarines

If that estimate is off by 90%, and only 30 tons of cocaine come in that way, how many poor schlubs with backpacks does that equal?

Read your link. Says subs go to Mexico and/or Central America. Long way from US border. Then overland. Then? Obviously from what you all say the inspection on land should be improved. Slow the traffic down, what's the hurry, who loses? "American" firms like GM that do their manufacturing in Mexico? Oh dear, what a shame. Banana growers? People would learn to live with that.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Read your link. Says subs go to Mexico and/or Central America. Long way from US border. Then overland. Then? Obviously from what you all say the inspection on land should be improved. Slow the traffic down, what's the hurry, who loses? "American" firms like GM that do their manufacturing in Mexico? Oh dear, what a shame. Banana growers? People would learn to live with that.

The American consumer loses. There's over a billion dollars a day worth of trade which goes through the border. If you increase inspections by a factor of one hundred, you're still not checking the majority of them and just adding to the costs.

The solution to the drug problem is legalizing drugs, not crippling the economy.

 

[Gun Nut]

The submarine method was highly successful for smuggling in thousands of pounds of contraband.... in the 80's and some of the 90's. Detection technology available today has all but eliminated that means.

Lol! Who told you that? I call bullshit.
Read and learn: The Coast Guard is catching more drug-running subs, but most 'very stealthy' narco subs are probably going undetected (October 2018)

Through September this year (2018), Colombia's navy had captured 14 "narco subs" on the country's Pacific coast — more than triple the four it captured all last year and another sign of drug traffickers' ingenuity.

According to the DEA, Colombia produced as much as 910 metric tons of cocaine in 2016, a 32 percent increase from 2015. By some estimates, one third of that travels via submarines

If that estimate is off by 90%, and only 30 tons of cocaine come in that way, how many poor schlubs with backpacks does that equal?

Colombia is not alone. The US Coast Guard reported in September 2017 that it had seen a "resurgence" of low-profile vessels, the most common kind of "narco sub," capturing seven of them since June that year

a resurgence, ey? OK then. Perhaps its the reduction in US/Mexico crossings over recent years that prompted the resurgence.

 

[4321lynx]

Read your link. Says subs go to Mexico and/or Central America. Long way from US border. Then overland. Then? Obviously from what you all say the inspection on land should be improved. Slow the traffic down, what's the hurry, who loses? "American" firms like GM that do their manufacturing in Mexico? Oh dear, what a shame. Banana growers? People would learn to live with that.

The American consumer loses. There's over a billion dollars a day worth of trade which goes through the border. If you increase inspections by a factor of one hundred, you're still not checking the majority of them and just adding to the costs.

The solution to the drug problem is legalizing drugs, not crippling the economy.

That would need a whole new thread. Starting with Britain forcing China in 19th century to adopt that "solution?" as a market for India's opium production. British Empire in the role of drug producer, drug pusher, and enforcer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

In 1820, China's economy was the largest in the world, according to British economist Angus Maddison.[3] Within a decade after the end of the Second Opium War, China's share of global GDP had fallen by half.[4] In another research paper published by Michael Cemblast of JP Morgan[citation needed] and updated by the World Economic Forum, similar conclusions were reached—i.e. China was the largest economy in the world for many centuries until the Opium Wars.[3]

The Chinese Emperor passed many decrees/edicts against opium in 1729, 1799, 1814 and 1831, but the trade flourished.[9] Even some Americans entered the trade by bringing opium from Turkey into China. Some of the American opium traders included the great-grandfather of US President Franklin D. Roosevelt and ancestors of US Secretary of State John Forbes Kerry.[10] By 1833, the number of chests of opium trafficked into China soared to 30,000.[8] According to United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, the British sent the opium to their warehouses in the free trade region of Canton (Guangzhou), from where Chinese smugglers would take the opium into mainland China.[9] The opium trade resulted in 4-12 million Chinese addicts and devastated especially the large coastal Chinese cities.[8] In 1839, after having a letter to the Queen of England, pleading for a halt to the import of opium ignored, the emperor issued an edict ordering the seizure of all the opium in Canton, including that held by foreign governments.[citation needed] British traders alone lost 20,000 chests (1,300 metric tons) of opium, without compensation.

 

[starwater]

the orange menace just walked out of talks with the dems. Essentially taking his ball and going home. Wah!

 

[Politesse]

the orange menace just walked out of talks with the dems. Essentially taking his ball and going home. Wah!

Literally no one could have seen that coming.

 

[Politesse]

Schumer told reporters that Trump asked Pelosi if she would fund his wall. “She said no. And he just got up and said: ‘Then we have nothing to discuss,’ and he just walked out.”

Well, he did promise it would be a quick meeting!

 

[Opoponax]

the orange menace just walked out of talks with the dems. Essentially taking his ball and going home. Wah!

What a fucking idiot. This 100% about him trying to save face. The Dems won't cave, no matter how much he craps his diapers, and it's only making him look worse and worse by the day. He said he'd own the shutdown, so he owns it. That took place during another tantrum he had live on TV.

It's also insightful of how little he knows about negotiations. You don't do it in public. You do it behind closed doors and get the thing worked out before you make an announcement. And if you do show up to negotiate, you can't pay hardball unless you own all the cards. Besides, hardball is TV/movie stuff. But Trump doesn't seem to know that. Either that, or this was just moronic grandstanding for his idiot base and the vampires that feed off the blood of that base (Hannity, Limbaugh, etc.).

 

[Tom Sawyer]

He’s probably really confused about how the hell it is that Pelosi didn’t scream STOP!!! as he was walking out and offer $10 billion for the wall and a halt to legal immigration for non-whites in response to his great negotiation tactics.

That’s definitely how it played out in his mind before the meeting.