"The Wing" - sexist New York coworking space that excludes men

[Axulus]

It sounds like the fainting couch women who are so fragile that they can't bear to be near any man. I say let them have it. It will also be a great workspace for the ultra conservative Muslim women who are banned from being in the presence of men who are not of their immediate family. Their ideology fits perfectly with the founders of this workspace.

Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, most women can handle most men and the troublemaker males are usually fired. Maybe it is best to keep the snowflakes outside the regular workforce.

 

[RavenSky]

It is an interesting dilemma. On the one hand, as Charlie points out, having a workspace free of sexual harassment is an important goal... especially in a society where some men think that sexual harassment should be tolerated as if it is on par with annoying pop-up ads and locker room jokes.

But technically this would seem to be a violation of the same type of equal access women (and other minorities) have had to fight for. "Social clubs" have long been a means to bar women, Jews, Blacks and every other group other than rich, white males from corporate boardrooms. Calling it a "social club" does not disguise the fact that business is conducted there, and access to that inner circle of business could potentially give preference to its members.

The real solution is, of course, to stop the sexual harassment. Unfortunately, as we have seen on other threads on this very board, some men don't want to do that.

So what is the solution?

Give women a space in which to flourish without being forced to deal with knuckle-draggers but at the risk of shutting decent men out of potential career-related opportunities?

Or pass laws to remove knuckle-draggers and/or their sexual harassment behaviors from the co-ed workplace.

In other words, if women benefit discrimination is tolerable. If men benefit, it isn't.

In other words, not at all what I said, but thank you for being your typical self.

 

[Toni]

I think that maybe they should just paper the foyer with the following ads:

 

[Toni]

It sounds like the fainting couch women who are so fragile that they can't bear to be near any man. I say let them have it. It will also be a great workspace for the ultra conservative Muslim women who are banned from being in the presence of men who are not of their immediate family. Their ideology fits perfectly with the founders of this workspace.

Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, most women can handle most men and the troublemaker males are usually fired. Maybe it is best to keep the snowflakes outside the regular workforce.

Thanks for making it clear that not wanting to be sexually harassed is the same thing as being too fragile to exist in the real world. Nice bit of Islamophobia,too.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It exposes the hypocrisy.

I don't see why trans women wouldn't be allowed in, personally. Unless the coworking space was anti-trans. Which we don't know.

Because the whole point is for women to have a space away from men. But any man can get in if he is sufficiently motivated to. All he has to do is dress like a woman. Or maybe even just dress as he always does and march on in with his bros saying they are lesbian trans women. Are they going to tell them no?

 

[Toni]

It exposes the hypocrisy.

I don't see why trans women wouldn't be allowed in, personally. Unless the coworking space was anti-trans. Which we don't know.

Because the whole point is for women to have a space away from men. But any man can get in if he is sufficiently motivated to. All he has to do is dress like a woman. Or maybe even just dress as he always does and march on in with his bros saying they are lesbian trans women. Are they going to tell them no?

I don't think you understand what the words transexual and transwoman mean. You should probably stop using them until you do.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Lord love a duck. "The Wing" certainly has triggered a lot of silly "thinking". For a long time, the powerful men who ran everything met at Golf Clubs where women were excluded, and where business deals were made, and many people thought this was OK. Except women locked out of a powerful "old boys club", and business dealings.This is not the same sort of thing. It is a temporary work space without the usual distractions is all. Now, why would women want such a space? Because, maybe, bad experiences with dickhead males in a work space?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

It exposes the hypocrisy.

I don't see why trans women wouldn't be allowed in, personally. Unless the coworking space was anti-trans. Which we don't know.

Because the whole point is for women to have a space away from men. But any man can get in if he is sufficiently motivated to. All he has to do is dress like a woman. Or maybe even just dress as he always does and march on in with his bros saying they are lesbian trans women. Are they going to tell them no?

Crossdressing and being trans aren't the same thing. You need to get more educated on the topic if you want to understand it.

 

[ruby sparks]

Personally, I feel that if a city/society/country is willing to allow female-only clubs, it should allow male-only clubs, and vice versa.

My opinion is that having separate clubs for separate genders, or races, or what have you, is not the world's greatest idea, even if well-intentioned and even if it has some benefits for the group allowed access.

In practice, I think there should be exceptions, for instance when segregated activities are temporary, or time-limited, or when the numbers involved fall below a reasonable threshold.

 

[Toni]

Personally, I feel that if a city/society/country is willing to allow female-only clubs, it should allow male-only clubs, and vice versa.

My opinion is that having separate clubs for separate genders, or races, or what have you, is not the world's greatest idea, even if well-intentioned and even if it has some benefits for the group allowed access.

In practice, I think there should be exceptions, for instance when segregated activities are temporary, or time-limited, or when the numbers involved fall below a reasonable threshold.

Can you think of any reasons that women might want a woman only space?

Can you think of any solutions to those concerns?

 

[ruby sparks]

Can you think of any reasons that women might want a woman only space?

Yes of course. Ditto for many groups. Possibly all groups. In the particular case of women, I agree with those who explain the reasons why they would want a women-only space.

Can you think of any solutions to those concerns?

Yes of course. Workplace harassment for example, needs to continue to be tackled. I could think of others too.

 

[Toni]

Can you think of any reasons that women might want a woman only space?

Yes of course. Ditto for many groups. Possibly all groups. In the particular case of women, I agree with those who explain the reasons why they would want a women-only space.

So women should just be forced to welcome men despite the very real and often illegal harassment and discrimation they face from men?

Can you think of any solutions to those concerns?

Yes of course. Workplace harassment for example, needs to continue to be tackled. I could think of others too.

Can you do more than just think about it?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Because the whole point is for women to have a space away from men. But any man can get in if he is sufficiently motivated to. All he has to do is dress like a woman. Or maybe even just dress as he always does and march on in with his bros saying they are lesbian trans women. Are they going to tell them no?

Crossdressing and being trans aren't the same thing. You need to get more educated on the topic if you want to understand it.

Are you prepared to tell somebody who says they are trans, that they are actually a man and merely a crossdresser? What will you say when they accuse you of "invalidating them as a person" as you refuse to use their preferred gender pronouns?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Because the whole point is for women to have a space away from men. But any man can get in if he is sufficiently motivated to. All he has to do is dress like a woman. Or maybe even just dress as he always does and march on in with his bros saying they are lesbian trans women. Are they going to tell them no?

Crossdressing and being trans aren't the same thing. You need to get more educated on the topic if you want to understand it.

Are you prepared to tell somebody who says they are trans, that they are actually a man and merely a crossdresser? What will you say when they accuse you of "invalidating them as a person" as you refuse to use their preferred gender pronouns?

The thing you're missing is being trans is a psychological thing. It's not just "acting like a man/woman".

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

No, I'm not missing that at all.

Are we now to require a psychologist's assessment on everyone who says they are a trans person who asks us to treat them as trans and use their chosen pronouns or enter into spaces like this? Up until now I thought the idea was to take them at their word.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

No, I'm not missing that at all. What you're missing that is people can claim to be trans who are not trans, and walk right into this place, unless you are prepared to call them out on it and tell them they are not trans, in which case they can play you and call you a bigot, as they walk right in.

Yes, but that's just a consequence of not being a hypocrite. What do you want, exactly? Either I believe in intellectual consistency or I don't. If I do, then that is a consequence of being intellectually consistent.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Think it through. It defeats the purpose of "The Wing". It an easy way for any guy, with any agenda, to walk right into the place. Unless you are prepared to take an anti-trans stance.

 

[starwater]

I think it’s a terrible idea. Any work space should not exclude 50% of the population. This is why the Catholic Church is broken.

Derek, why are you so angry?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Think it through. It defeats the purpose of "The Wing". It an easy way for any guy, with any agenda, to walk right into the place. Unless you are prepared to take an anti-trans stance.

Nope. Not going to take an anti-trans stance. But it's a complicated topic so I don't expect there to be easy solutions. Aside from inclusive workplaces, which would obviously make it less complicated. So I guess, that is an easy solution.

 

[Toni]

Think it through. It defeats the purpose of "The Wing". It an easy way for any guy, with any agenda, to walk right into the place. Unless you are prepared to take an anti-trans stance.

No, it doesn't. Your stance seems to be quite anti-trans. You seem to be confusing trans persons with persons who dress up in order to sneak into gender specific spaces. That sounds a lot like Faux News and my more conservative Southern Baptist relatives.

And yeah, the problem is that a lot of guys walk into places with agendas. I'm not talking about guys putting on dresses and pretending to be trans---because that does not seem to actually be a thing, except in the minds of some particularly ugly conservatives.