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This Will Never Pass

 
 
 
Bad idea. Remove the federal laws against it but stop there. Don't try to push the states.
 
I can get medical marijuana in Georgia, but only in the form of cannabis oil. I have never tried it. My doctor said to try it if I wanted to, but he hadn't seen any clinical gains from using it. You don't even get high from the oil.

I am a killjoy about legalizing marijuana, I oppose it.

I went to college in the 1960's so I was exposed to it frequently, but I didn't try it. I saw that the people who used it regularly were less motivated in school and seemed to have lower concentration than the people who didn't use it. I don't know if the drug caused the problems or if it was poorly motivated people with low concentration who were drawn to use it. Either way I didn't want any part of it.

My cousin smoked marijuana and abused amphetamines, she developed schizophrenia and tragically committed suicide when she was only 19. She was an identical twin and her sister didn't exhibit any mental problems. She made a career of helping drug addicts because of what happened to her sister. That would have made me crazy in short order.

I eventually became a Naval aviator in Zumwalt's high tolerance Navy and once again, I saw the problems with concentration that users seemed to share, this in a business where, if you allow me to be dramatic for a moment, concentration is often required to stay alive.

Physical affects aside I don't think that we need another legal drug to cause additional problems. We have enough problems with alcohol right now.

You should be aware though that I am open to being called a hypocrite about this, I have made an investment in a business in California that depends on legalized marijuana. I did it to help the son of a friend and for no other reason.

I would like for the drug to be reclassified as something other than a class A drug. The worse result by far from using marijuana is to be arrested for procession with intent to sell it.
 
SimpleDon said:
I can get medical marijuana in Georgia, but only in the form of cannabis oil. I have never tried it. My doctor said to try it if I wanted to, but he hadn't seen any clinical gains from using it. You don't even get high from the oil.

I am a killjoy about legalizing marijuana, I oppose it.

I went to college in the 1960's so I was exposed to it frequently, but I didn't try it. I saw that the people who used it regularly were less motivated in school and seemed to have lower concentration than the people who didn't use it. I don't know if the drug caused the problems or if it was poorly motivated people with low concentration who were drawn to use it. Either way I didn't want any part of it.

My cousin smoked marijuana and abused amphetamines, she developed schizophrenia and tragically committed suicide when she was only 19. She was an identical twin and her sister didn't exhibit any mental problems. She made a career of helping drug addicts because of what happened to her sister. That would have made me crazy in short order.

I eventually became a Naval aviator in Zumwalt's high tolerance Navy and once again, I saw the problems with concentration that users seemed to share, this in a business where, if you allow me to be dramatic for a moment, concentration is often required to stay alive.

Physical affects aside I don't think that we need another legal drug to cause additional problems. We have enough problems with alcohol right now.

You should be aware though that I am open to being called a hypocrite about this, I have made an investment in a business in California that depends on legalized marijuana. I did it to help the son of a friend and for no other reason.

I would like for the drug to be reclassified as something other than a class A drug. The worse result by far from using marijuana is to be arrested for procession with intent to sell it.
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Even if I accepted for the sake of discussion your premises, criminalization **makes things worse**, as has been proven time and again. So, if your worried about the negative effects of marijuana, you should be even more pro-legalization, since the negative effects are exacerbated by criminalization.

So, let me put it this way. You say we don't want to add another legal drug to cause "additional problems", since we already have alcohol. But this relies on the assumption that interdiction and prohibition are effective constraints on drug use. When I was a teenager, we smoked pot because it was easier to get than legal and regulated cigarettes and alcohol.

Kids in my school system were abusing illegal drugs very early on. Pot was easy to get in middle school, but it was practically impossible to get alcohol (and to a lesser extent cigarettes).

In high school, if I wanted to obtain alcohol, it would involve a long, complex game of bartering favors and pleading with my friend's older siblings. If I wanted to get pot, it was a simple manner of saving some money asking some sketchy-looking freshman at school...
 
J842P said:
So, let me put it this way. You say we don't want to add another legal drug to cause "additional problems", since we already have alcohol. But this relies on the assumption that interdiction and prohibition are effective constraints on drug use. When I was a teenager, we smoked pot because it was easier to get than legal and regulated cigarettes and alcohol.

Kids in my school system were abusing illegal drugs very early on. Pot was easy to get in middle school, but it was practically impossible to get alcohol (and to a lesser extent cigarettes).

In high school, if I wanted to obtain alcohol, it would involve a long, complex game of bartering favors and pleading with my friend's older siblings. If I wanted to get pot, it was a simple manner of saving some money asking some sketchy-looking freshman at school...
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You must have gone to my schools, as I would say the same thing, other than I never inhaled pot. I knew who I could get pot from, but I had no clue for alcohol (other than in Mexico where they didn't care about age limits). My time was in the late 70's for HS.

And now that it is legal in my current state, I still haven't lit up...
 
I only rarely smoke. I've got 3/4 of a joint sitting in front of me right now. I rolled it two weeks ago.

My sister-in-law is a heavy smoker but I've not experienced any of the issues with her about motivation or concentration. She's one of the hardest working people I know.
 
If you made all drugs legal, you wouldn't have a problem with illegal drugs...

Nor would you keep financing cartels, incarcerations, interdictions etc. etc. etc.
I have to wonder if the savings might not be more than enough to provide "addiction treatment" to anyone who wanted it.
The Portugal model hasn't resulted in the end of the world.

Portugal decriminalised drugs 14 years ago – and now hardly anyone dies from overdosing
The country has 3 overdose deaths per million citizens, compared to the EU average of 17.3
 
J842P said:
Loren Pechtel said:
Bad idea. Remove the federal laws against it but stop there. Don't try to push the states.
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Why should states be allowed to criminalize marijuana?
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I think for the feds to push for it to be legal would cause a backlash. Let them see the world doesn't fall apart in the legal states.
 
SimpleDon said:
I can get medical marijuana in Georgia, but only in the form of cannabis oil. I have never tried it. My doctor said to try it if I wanted to, but he hadn't seen any clinical gains from using it. You don't even get high from the oil.

I am a killjoy about legalizing marijuana, I oppose it.

I went to college in the 1960's so I was exposed to it frequently, but I didn't try it. I saw that the people who used it regularly were less motivated in school and seemed to have lower concentration than the people who didn't use it. I don't know if the drug caused the problems or if it was poorly motivated people with low concentration who were drawn to use it. Either way I didn't want any part of it.
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I don't think there are many of us on the legalization side that don't agree it causes problems. It's just that we see the problems of illegality as being far worse than the problems of the marijuana itself and furthermore, it's nowhere near as dangerous as the two big drugs: tobacco and alcohol.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
SimpleDon said:
I can get medical marijuana in Georgia, but only in the form of cannabis oil. I have never tried it. My doctor said to try it if I wanted to, but he hadn't seen any clinical gains from using it. You don't even get high from the oil.

I am a killjoy about legalizing marijuana, I oppose it.

I went to college in the 1960's so I was exposed to it frequently, but I didn't try it. I saw that the people who used it regularly were less motivated in school and seemed to have lower concentration than the people who didn't use it. I don't know if the drug caused the problems or if it was poorly motivated people with low concentration who were drawn to use it. Either way I didn't want any part of it.
Click to expand...

I don't think there are many of us on the legalization side that don't agree it causes problems. It's just that we see the problems of illegality as being far worse than the problems of the marijuana itself and furthermore, it's nowhere near as dangerous as the two big drugs: tobacco and alcohol.
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Fully agree, but for the tobacco part, as its issues are a little different and can confuse the debate.

And as Elixir cited in post #10, Portugal has shown positive results from decriminalizing recreational drugs. Even smarter would be to take something like 25% of the money flushed down that "war on drugs" and put it into treatment options for people seeking help. But as Ziprhead titled this thread, this will never pass...
 
Pass the law with steps.

Put money in to support development of field sobriety test. Create a permitting set up for growth and distribution. Set a limit for personal possession at any point in time. Criminalize operation of machinery under direct influence. No smoking in public places (it stinks!). Allow creation of Pot Bars.
 
funinspace said:
Loren Pechtel said:
I think for the feds to push for it to be legal would cause a backlash. Let them see the world doesn't fall apart in the legal states.
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Yep, just like with alcohol...
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Note that the feds did not try to make alcohol legal. They simply removed the federal laws against it. Local laws were left untouched and to this day there are dry counties in the USA.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Pass the law with steps.

Put money in to support development of field sobriety test. Create a permitting set up for growth and distribution. Set a limit for personal possession at any point in time. Criminalize operation of machinery under direct influence. No smoking in public places (it stinks!). Allow creation of Pot Bars.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think we should scrap the notion of blood levels determining impaired driving in the first place.

Instead, have a driving simulator. It need not be anything like perfect, just not incorrect (thus it can display a cartoon car but it must behave as a real one. You might not have a rear view mirror but if you have one it must be a correct image.) A suspect impaired driver is put through various scenarios that reflect real world situations and must perform to some minimum standard. Note that this same test is given as part of the license exam. Perform below the acceptable threshold and you're guilty of driving while impaired. Doing so for reasons like drugs or alcohol are aggravating circumstances to the base charge.

As a secondary benefit it would get the geezers that should have hung up their keys off the road.
 
Yes LP. Lets haul out the driving simulator in the field.


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Jimmy Higgins said:
Pass the law with steps.

Put money in to support development of field sobriety test. Create a permitting set up for growth and distribution. Set a limit for personal possession at any point in time. Criminalize operation of machinery under direct influence. No smoking in public places (it stinks!). Allow creation of Pot Bars.
Click to expand...

Australian police have a roadside test for THC and amphetamine; It gets a fair number of false positives though, and as there is no legal limit in Australia for driving with these substances, it tends to catch a lot of people who are not impaired, but who still have detectable levels in their saliva - THC in particular has a very long half-life, and can be detected (at well below impairment levels) for a long time after the last exposure to the drug.

I am sure that this test could be improved on, if there was a demand to do so due to the existence of laws that specify a maximum limit for THC, just as we currently have for BAC.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
funinspace said:
Yep, just like with alcohol...
Click to expand...

Note that the feds did not try to make alcohol legal. They simply removed the federal laws against it. Local laws were left untouched and to this day there are dry counties in the USA.
Click to expand...
Right, that was my point, let the states do as they wish regarding pot, and get out of the way.
 
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