Threats to prevent Russian athletes from competing.

[Toni]

Unfortunately, athletic competitions are also political. Reportedly, Russia promised China to hold off invading Ukraine until after the Olympics.

Colin Kaepernick has been locked out of his football career for protesting racism in the US. Football players who refused to be vaccinated or lied about their vaccination status were suspended....for 3 games.

Jackie Robinson integrating MLB was political. Brittney Griner is currently being held in Russia.

There are tons of examples.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

This smug little asshole seems to be pretty damn proud of his country's war crimes:

MSN

www.msn.com

This is why Russia and its athletes should be barred from international competition.

Do we do this for Chinese athletes, too? Should American athletes have been banned for the Iraq war? We've spent the last 30 years building a global community. Let's not toss it so easily.

Russia should be treated as the pariah state that it is.

Do I detect some sarcasm here? You know, freedom of speech, cancel culture, etc., out-group attacks, etc.? I mean, it's stealth sarcasm if it is, but given the available info, I assign probability >0.5 to the sarcasm hypothesis.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

This smug little asshole seems to be pretty damn proud of his country's war crimes:

MSN

www.msn.com

This is why Russia and its athletes should be barred from international competition.

Do we do this for Chinese athletes, too? Should American athletes have been banned for the Iraq war? We've spent the last 30 years building a global community. Let's not toss it so easily.

Is there a secret invasion of a neighbor by China? BTW, there were 49 countries in the coalition of the willing against Iraq.

A global reaction to the Putin's aggression seems consistent with the notion of a global community.

We are not at war with Russia. There is no UN mandate against Russia. What is gained by fraying, or destroying, the cultural bonds we've nurtured since the fall of the Soviet Union? Why hurt the average Russian? There will be blow back from this. And for what?

International Cat Federation Bans Russian Cats from Competition Following Ukraine Invasion

The International Cat Federation stated that it was "shocked and horrified" by the conflict in Ukraine

www.yahoo.com

We are still in a cold war with Russia.

What cultural bonds with Russia are you talking about?

There will be blow back no matter what how we act or don't act.

The Russian gov't has no problem hurting the average Ukranian, Georgian, Armenian and Moldovan. It is the Russian way. Apparently it is the only language they understand.

Yes, but the question is why hurt the average Russian. Trausti is not arguing against giving weapons to the Ukrainian military or imposing sanctions on Putin, for example. There is always that issue with general sanctions though, i.e., oil, as they do seem to target ordinary citizens.

 

[laughing dog]

This smug little asshole seems to be pretty damn proud of his country's war crimes:

MSN

www.msn.com

This is why Russia and its athletes should be barred from international competition.

Do we do this for Chinese athletes, too? Should American athletes have been banned for the Iraq war? We've spent the last 30 years building a global community. Let's not toss it so easily.

Is there a secret invasion of a neighbor by China? BTW, there were 49 countries in the coalition of the willing against Iraq.

A global reaction to the Putin's aggression seems consistent with the notion of a global community.

We are not at war with Russia. There is no UN mandate against Russia. What is gained by fraying, or destroying, the cultural bonds we've nurtured since the fall of the Soviet Union? Why hurt the average Russian? There will be blow back from this. And for what?

International Cat Federation Bans Russian Cats from Competition Following Ukraine Invasion

The International Cat Federation stated that it was "shocked and horrified" by the conflict in Ukraine

www.yahoo.com

We are still in a cold war with Russia.

What cultural bonds with Russia are you talking about?

There will be blow back no matter what how we act or don't act.

The Russian gov't has no problem hurting the average Ukranian, Georgian, Armenian and Moldovan. It is the Russian way. Apparently it is the only language they understand.

Yes, but the question is why hurt the average Russian. Trausti is not arguing against giving weapons to the Ukrainian military or imposing sanctions on Putin, for example. There is always that issue with general sanctions though, i.e., oil, as they do seem to target ordinary citizens.

If hurting the average person is the Russian way, then clearly hurting the average Russian is a way to get the Russian populace less complacent and hopefully mobilized against Putin.

Have you wondered why Trump supporters are so worried about the average Russian, but not the average Ukrainain? It is almost as if borders don't matter to them anymore.

 

[TSwizzle]

Do I detect some sarcasm here?

I don't know, do you?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

If hurting the average person is the Russian way, then clearly hurting the average Russian is a way to get the Russian populace less complacent and hopefully mobilized against Putin.

If hurting the average person by bombing them is the Russian way, then clearly hurting the average Russian by bombing them is a way to get the Russian populace less complacent and hopefully mobilized against Putin.
But that's not okay, right?

And what does it mean that it's "the Russian way"? Surely not all Russians do that. Is it ordinary Russians what you mean? And what do you mean their 'way'?

The questions are when it's justified to target civilians to obtain a political goal, and to what extent it's okay to hurt them; very difficult matters in some situations.

Have you wondered why Trump supporters are so worried about the average Russian, but not the average Ukrainain? It is almost as if borders don't matter to them anymore.

I haven't wondered, as I do not know that Trump supporters are like that; maybe most are, but I haven't spent time on that issue.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Do I detect some sarcasm here?

I don't know, do you?

Well, you tell me. As I said, I gave it >0.5, so I give you that info. But I can't figure out for sure whether what I detect is actually sarcasm, or it just looks kinda like it. You on the other hand, know.

That said, now it's >0.6.

 

[laughing dog]

If hurting the average person is the Russian way, then clearly hurting the average Russian is a way to get the Russian populace less complacent and hopefully mobilized against Putin.

If hurting the average person by bombing them is the Russian way, then clearly hurting the average Russian by bombing them is a way to get the Russian populace less complacent and hopefully mobilized against Putin.
But that's not okay, right?

Your straw man is duly noted. No one was talking about bombing Russians.

And what does it mean that it's "the Russian way"? Surely not all Russians do that. Is it ordinary Russians what you mean? And what do you mean their 'way'?

Sigh, I mean it is the Russian gov't way of doing things.

The questions are when it's justified to target civilians to obtain a political goal, and to what extent it's okay to hurt them; very difficult matters in some situations.

Of course, is there a point to your stating the obvious?

Have you wondered why Trump supporters are so worried about the average Russian, but not the average Ukrainain? It is almost as if borders don't matter to them anymore.

I haven't wondered, as I do not know that Trump supporters are like that; maybe most are, but I haven't spent time on that issue.

Obviously.

 

[TSwizzle]

Do I detect some sarcasm here?

I don't know, do you?

Well, you tell me. As I said, I gave it >0.5, so I give you that info. But I can't figure out for sure whether what I detect is actually sarcasm, or it just looks kinda like it. You on the other hand, know.

That said, now it's >0.6.

I have no way of knowing what you detect.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Your straw man is duly noted. No one was talking about bombing Russians.

It is not a straw man. It's a reductio. And of course you were not talking about bombing them. It's a reductio. It shows the problem with your kind of argumentation.

Sigh, I mean it is the Russian gov't way of doing things.

Thank you. Let me take a look again:

If hurting the average person is the Russian government's way of doing things, then clearly hurting the average Russian is a way to get the Russian populace less complacent and hopefully mobilized against Putin.​

Well, that seems disconnected. If you meant 'clearly hurting the average Russian' is a proper way (which seemed to be the case in context; now I'm not sure), then show your work, why is that clear? If you just meant it is a way, well, again, that is disconnected. For that matter, if there is no claim that it is proper, one could go with 'If oppressing people is the Chinese government's way of doing things, then clearly hurting the average Chinese is a way to get the Chinese populace less complacent and hopefully mobilized against Xi', which might or might not be so - maybe they'll just rally behind the flag.

Of course, is there a point to your stating the obvious?

Yes, the point is to challenge your sweeping generalization and a claim you did not back up.

Obviously.

Not so, actually, since it is irrelevant, so I would not have commented on it even if I had spent time on it.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Do I detect some sarcasm here?

I don't know, do you?

Well, you tell me. As I said, I gave it >0.5, so I give you that info. But I can't figure out for sure whether what I detect is actually sarcasm, or it just looks kinda like it. You on the other hand, know.

That said, now it's >0.6.

I have no way of knowing what you detect.

As it happens, you do, because you do know whether you will using sarcasm, and I gave you enough information to tell that I'm uncertain as to whether you would. In fact, if you were using sarcasm, you already know I detected just that, and if you were not, you know I did not.

That aside, 'Do I detect...' is a common expression in English. It has a meaning, so you could have answered.

 

[TSwizzle]

Gibberish.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Okay, given the amount of hostility I'm down to less than 0.3. But how can you be so inconsistent, if that's not sarcasm?

Radar operator: hey, I got a tiny dot on our radar. The dot is at such-and-such location. Am I detecting one of your drones?

Drone operator (who knows exactly where the drones are): I have no way of knowing what you detect.

 

[laughing dog]

Your straw man is duly noted. No one was talking about bombing Russians.

It is not a straw man. It's a reductio. And of course you were not talking about bombing them. It's a reductio. It shows the problem with your kind of argumentation.

It was an example of faulty reasoning.

Thank you. Let me take a look again:

If hurting the average person is the Russian government's way of doing things, then clearly hurting the average Russian is a way to get the Russian populace less complacent and hopefully mobilized against Putin.​

Well, that seems disconnected. If you meant 'clearly hurting the average Russian' is a proper way (which seemed to be the case in context; now I'm not sure), then show your work, why is that clear? If you just meant it is a way, well, again, that is disconnected. For that matter, if there is no claim that it is proper, one could go with 'If oppressing people is the Chinese government's way of doing things, then clearly hurting the average Chinese is a way to get the Chinese populace less complacent and hopefully mobilized against Xi', which might or might not be so - maybe they'll just rally behind the flag.

Is there a point to your word salad ? BTW, the use if “ hopefully” indicates the goal is not a certainty.

Yes, the point is to challenge your sweeping generalization and a claim you did not back up.

It failed,

Not so, actually, since it is irrelevant, so I would not have commented on it even if I had spent time on it.

of course, why think about idealogical allies’ double standards?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Is there a point to your word salad ? BTW, the use if “ hopefully” indicates the goal is not a certainty.

It's not word salad. I'm just showing some of the shortcomings of your claims and arguments. Let me try again:

of course, why think about idealogical allies’ double standards?

First, of course, I am no ideological ally of anyone - I have no ideology -, and in particular, not of Trumpists. The fact that you fail to see that is ideological blindness on your part, not on mine.

Second, of course there are plenty of double standards in most Trumpists, in my experience. I just don't spend my life figuring out every single one of them, as it would be exhausting and a waste of time. Left-wingers are no better in that regard, on average, in my experience.

 

[steve_bank]

Golly, now I am really confused. Is not having an ideology kind of like having an ideology?

As a matter of policy we have never officially condemned the displacement of Palestinians to make way for Israeli settlements. Saudi Arabia is our 'friend' despite an abysmally oppressive system simply because they have a lot of oil and Iran is their enemy. SA is worse than Putin's Russia.

Dual standards is the name of the game in politics

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Golly, now I am really confused. Is not having an ideology kind of like having an ideology?

No. Is not having a religion kind of having a religion?

 

[laughing dog]

Is there a point to your word salad ? BTW, the use if “ hopefully” indicates the goal is not a certainty.

It's not word salad. I'm just showing some of the shortcomings of your claims and arguments. Let me try again:

No, it is a word salad because it did not contain a coherent argument.

of course, why think about idealogical allies’ double standards?

First, of course, I am no ideological ally of anyone - I have no ideology -, and in particular, not of Trumpists. The fact that you fail to see that is ideological blindness on your part, not on mine.

I realize you believe what you post. But you are mistaken.

Second, of course there are plenty of double standards in most Trumpists, in my experience. I just don't spend my life figuring out every single one of them, as it would be exhausting and a waste of time. Left-wingers are no better in that regard, on average, in my experience.

No one is asking to you to do anything, but that whataboutism truly shows your lack of ideology.

 

[steve_bank]

Golly, now I am really confused. Is not having an ideology kind of like having an ideology?

No. Is not having a religion kind of having a religion?

Wrong forum for this debate. There is a freethought htread somewhere on philosophy.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Golly, now I am really confused. Is not having an ideology kind of like having an ideology?

No. Is not having a religion kind of having a religion?

Wrong forum for this debate. There is a freethought htread somewhere on philosophy.

I replied to your contention.