Three middle school boys charged with sexual harassment for not using “preferred” gender pronouns of classmate

Three middle school boys charged with sexual harassment for not using “preferred” gender pronouns of classmate - The Lion

Three students at a Wisconsin middle school are being charged with sexual harassment for not using another student’s “preferred” gender pronouns. And the legal organization representing the accused suggests one school official may have been on “a fishing expedition to find evidence of sexual...

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Three students at a Wisconsin middle school are being charged with sexual harassment for not using another student’s “preferred” gender pronouns.
And the legal organization representing the accused suggests one school official may have been on “a fishing expedition to find evidence of sexual harassment” during interviews that failed to follow the school’s own policies.

In March, officials at Kiel Middle School first notified the parents of three eighth-grade boys that their sons were being investigated for sexual harassment.
According to the district, the boys failed to use a classmate’s requested pronouns of “they” and “them.” The school claims the conduct is sexual harassment under Title IX, which prohibits gender-based harassment in the form of name-calling.

Rose Rabidoux, the mother of one of the boys, told local media the use of pronouns was “confusing” to her son. She added that the classmate only recently announced the preferred pronouns, suggesting that other students were still adjusting.

“Sexual harassment – that’s rape, that’s incest, that’s inappropriate touching,” Rabidoux said. “What did my son do? He’s a little boy. He told me that he was being charged with sexual harassment for not using the right pronouns.”

Attorneys from the Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty (WILL) are representing the Rabidoux family and the families of the other two students who were accused.
In a May 12 letter sent to the superintendent, the school counselor and the Title IX compliance officer, WILL accuses the district of misinterpreting Title IX, which makes no mention of “gender identity.” They also say none of the alleged behavior “comes remotely close to sexual harassment.”

“The complaint against these boys, and the district’s ongoing investigation, are wholly inappropriate and should be immediately dismissed,” the letter reads.
The letter also argues that the district violated Title IX investigation procedures and the school’s own policies. Based on the evidence provided, WILL says the district should “promptly end the investigation, dismiss the complaints and remove them from each of the boys’ records.”

In response to parents’ complaints, superintendent Brad Ebert released a statement that fails to address the specifics of the case. Instead, the letter notes that the Kiel Area School District “prohibits all forms of bullying and harassment in accordance with all laws, including Title IX, and will continue to support ALL students regardless of race, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, creed, pregnancy, marital status, parental status, sexual orientation, sex (including transgender status, change of sex or gender identity), or physical, mental, emotional or learning disability (“Protected Classes”) in any of its student programs and activities; this is consistent with school board policy. We do not comment on any student matters.”
WILL has asked the district to provide key documents in the case by Friday. If the district fails to respond, the parents are expected to take legal action.

 

[laughing dog]

That's right: you don't know. So your linking it to the publicisation was unjustified.

It is a reasonable conclusion consistent with the facts. Which makes it justified, unlike your accusation.

I don't doubt it, but this isn't a college with 40,000 adults. This is year 8 kids. With multiple alleged perpetrators and acts claimed to have occurred in public (in music class).

My institution does not have anything close to 40,000 adults.

If the acts are as you portray ('mispronouncement"(s)), there is no reason to think that any witneses noticed or commented on it. While it is possible the complaint(s) might have said something there is no reason to think that they must have.

Toni has already decided the boys are almost certainly guilty, and has already said so. As did ZiprHead

Once again, you commit a reasoning error. The phrase "almost certainly guilty" is not the same "assuming allegations means guilt".: the latter admits no possibility of innocence, while the former does.

Let me get this straight - you are justifying your intellectual dishonesty because the school's letter upset your sensibilities about what details should have been included in the letter?

No. I am not justifying intellectual dishonesty because I was not intellectually dishonest.

Persistently and knowingly omitting a pertinent part of the allegation that casts doubt on one's argument is an example of intellectual dishonesty.

I have over 20 years experience dealing with these types of situations at my institution. Very rarely does the initial letter give much detail about the alleged misbehavior. It is pretty annoying to the recipient because they frequently have no clue what is going on. I have been told this lack of specificity is to prevent the alleged perpetrator from making up a story. I don't know if it is true, but it makes any interview more like a bushwhacking than anything else.

Sounds like the setup for a kangaroo court, frankly. For the alleged perpetrator to have the charges against them purposely clouded is quite literally Kafkaesque.

Doesn't matter what it sounds like, it is common practice. One does not have to like it or endorse to understand that reality.

 

[Toni]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction. If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

 

[Toni]

I mean they would have known anyway. Any such scandal would be known to anyone in the music class, and thus anyone in the year and thus anyone in the school.

I went to a Catholic all-boys school so of course there were multiple pederast related scandals during my years. Everyone in the playground knew what was going on without any publicity at all.

Cool anecdote. Of course, we won't know if it is applicable in this case because the situation was publicized.

That's right: you don't know. So your linking it to the publicisation was unjustified.

Since the boys were not suspended, there is no reason to assume or conjecture that everyone would have know about this in the absence of the publicity or the boys talking about it (i.e. public airing).

Of course the boys talked about it. I bet the complainant did to. I bet the staff members did too.

Of course you do.

Yes. People talk.

But hey, the rights (that have yet to be abridged) and public reputations (that would not been tainted without the publicity until a finding of some sort of guilt was made and announced) must be protected at the expense of the education and well-being of all the other children.

What? If you honestly believe this would have been kept secret within the community but for the parents publicising it, I can scarcely believe you are connected with an educational institution.

How quickly the secret would have percolated is a matter of conjecture.

And, as a matter of fact, there have been plenty of secret disciplines at my educational institution that most people still don't know the details or if they ever occurred.

I don't doubt it, but this isn't a college with 40,000 adults. This is year 8 kids. With multiple alleged perpetrators and acts claimed to have occurred in public (in music class).

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

There is no evidence that it is only"mispronouncing" that is the bullying. In fact, the letter sent to the parents mentions other behaviors. Your insistence of persisting in a deliberate mischaracterization of the situation is intellectually dishonest.

No, mentioning 'other behaviours' without any description of what they are at all, and then assuming allegations means guilt, is intellectually dishonest.

Who is assuming allegations means guilt? Not the posters who are saying we need more facts (blastula and myself are example of that) nor is the school - since they are doing an investigation (something required to ascertain the facts).

Toni has already decided the boys are almost certainly guilty, and has already said so. As did ZiprHead.

Let me get this straight - you are justifying your intellectual dishonesty because the school's letter upset your sensibilities about what details should have been included in the letter?

No. I am not justifying intellectual dishonesty because I was not intellectually dishonest.

I have over 20 years experience dealing with these types of situations at my institution. Very rarely does the initial letter give much detail about the alleged misbehavior. It is pretty annoying to the recipient because they frequently have no clue what is going on. I have been told this lack of specificity is to prevent the alleged perpetrator from making up a story. I don't know if it is true, but it makes any interview more like a bushwhacking than anything else.

Sounds like the setup for a kangaroo court, frankly. For the alleged perpetrator to have the charges against them purposely clouded is quite literally Kafkaesque.

You keep alleging that I made up my mind what happened. Please provide a post where I made such assertions or STFU.

 

[Metaphor]

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

If it's done intentionally, yes it is bullying. No question about it.

But the point is, even if there are cases where I would agree it was bullying, you are still begging the question. You already called the boys bullies.

 

[Metaphor]

That's right: you don't know. So your linking it to the publicisation was unjustified.

It is a reasonable conclusion consistent with the facts. Which makes it justified, unlike your accusation.

My assertion is that you don't know what would have happened had there been no publicity, which is not only consistent with the facts but true.

I don't doubt it, but this isn't a college with 40,000 adults. This is year 8 kids. With multiple alleged perpetrators and acts claimed to have occurred in public (in music class).

My institution does not have anything close to 40,000 adults.

If the acts are as you portray ('mispronouncement"(s)),

It's the school that decided 'mispronouning' was a verb, not me.

there is no reason to think that any witneses noticed or commented on it. While it is possible the complaint(s) might have said something there is no reason to think that they must have.

Since one of the alleged perpetrator said something because he overheard another conversation, there is good reason to think the incident was witnessed.

Toni has already decided the boys are almost certainly guilty, and has already said so. As did ZiprHead

Once again, you commit a reasoning error. The phrase "almost certainly guilty" is not the same "assuming allegations means guilt".: the latter admits no possibility of innocence, while the former does.

"Guilty" means "guilty beyond reasonable doubt", not beyond any doubt whatever.

If Toni or ZiprHead were potential jurors in the jury pool, they'd be dismissed outright if they talked about the strength of their pre-trial prejudices.

Let me get this straight - you are justifying your intellectual dishonesty because the school's letter upset your sensibilities about what details should have been included in the letter?

No. I am not justifying intellectual dishonesty because I was not intellectually dishonest.

Persistently and knowingly omitting a pertinent part of the allegation that casts doubt on one's argument is an example of intellectual dishonesty.

If it were pertinent your statement might be true. But not only did it not warrant mentioning in the original accusation letter, nobody here has any idea what this 'other behaviour' is supposed to be.

I have over 20 years experience dealing with these types of situations at my institution. Very rarely does the initial letter give much detail about the alleged misbehavior. It is pretty annoying to the recipient because they frequently have no clue what is going on. I have been told this lack of specificity is to prevent the alleged perpetrator from making up a story. I don't know if it is true, but it makes any interview more like a bushwhacking than anything else.

Sounds like the setup for a kangaroo court, frankly. For the alleged perpetrator to have the charges against them purposely clouded is quite literally Kafkaesque.

Doesn't matter what it sounds like, it is common practice. One does not have to like it or endorse to understand that reality.

I'll take the note then that this title IX investigation is purposely biased against the accused.

 

[Metaphor]

I mean they would have known anyway. Any such scandal would be known to anyone in the music class, and thus anyone in the year and thus anyone in the school.

I went to a Catholic all-boys school so of course there were multiple pederast related scandals during my years. Everyone in the playground knew what was going on without any publicity at all.

Cool anecdote. Of course, we won't know if it is applicable in this case because the situation was publicized.

That's right: you don't know. So your linking it to the publicisation was unjustified.

Since the boys were not suspended, there is no reason to assume or conjecture that everyone would have know about this in the absence of the publicity or the boys talking about it (i.e. public airing).

Of course the boys talked about it. I bet the complainant did to. I bet the staff members did too.

Of course you do.

Yes. People talk.

But hey, the rights (that have yet to be abridged) and public reputations (that would not been tainted without the publicity until a finding of some sort of guilt was made and announced) must be protected at the expense of the education and well-being of all the other children.

What? If you honestly believe this would have been kept secret within the community but for the parents publicising it, I can scarcely believe you are connected with an educational institution.

How quickly the secret would have percolated is a matter of conjecture.

And, as a matter of fact, there have been plenty of secret disciplines at my educational institution that most people still don't know the details or if they ever occurred.

I don't doubt it, but this isn't a college with 40,000 adults. This is year 8 kids. With multiple alleged perpetrators and acts claimed to have occurred in public (in music class).

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

There is no evidence that it is only"mispronouncing" that is the bullying. In fact, the letter sent to the parents mentions other behaviors. Your insistence of persisting in a deliberate mischaracterization of the situation is intellectually dishonest.

No, mentioning 'other behaviours' without any description of what they are at all, and then assuming allegations means guilt, is intellectually dishonest.

Who is assuming allegations means guilt? Not the posters who are saying we need more facts (blastula and myself are example of that) nor is the school - since they are doing an investigation (something required to ascertain the facts).

Toni has already decided the boys are almost certainly guilty, and has already said so. As did ZiprHead.

Let me get this straight - you are justifying your intellectual dishonesty because the school's letter upset your sensibilities about what details should have been included in the letter?

No. I am not justifying intellectual dishonesty because I was not intellectually dishonest.

I have over 20 years experience dealing with these types of situations at my institution. Very rarely does the initial letter give much detail about the alleged misbehavior. It is pretty annoying to the recipient because they frequently have no clue what is going on. I have been told this lack of specificity is to prevent the alleged perpetrator from making up a story. I don't know if it is true, but it makes any interview more like a bushwhacking than anything else.

Sounds like the setup for a kangaroo court, frankly. For the alleged perpetrator to have the charges against them purposely clouded is quite literally Kafkaesque.

You keep alleging that I made up my mind what happened. Please provide a post where I made such assertions or STFU.

The last comment wasn't about you but a comment on how disciplinary investigations are run by schools and universities.

 

[Toni]

I mean they would have known anyway. Any such scandal would be known to anyone in the music class, and thus anyone in the year and thus anyone in the school.

I went to a Catholic all-boys school so of course there were multiple pederast related scandals during my years. Everyone in the playground knew what was going on without any publicity at all.

Cool anecdote. Of course, we won't know if it is applicable in this case because the situation was publicized.

That's right: you don't know. So your linking it to the publicisation was unjustified.

Since the boys were not suspended, there is no reason to assume or conjecture that everyone would have know about this in the absence of the publicity or the boys talking about it (i.e. public airing).

Of course the boys talked about it. I bet the complainant did to. I bet the staff members did too.

Of course you do.

Yes. People talk.

But hey, the rights (that have yet to be abridged) and public reputations (that would not been tainted without the publicity until a finding of some sort of guilt was made and announced) must be protected at the expense of the education and well-being of all the other children.

What? If you honestly believe this would have been kept secret within the community but for the parents publicising it, I can scarcely believe you are connected with an educational institution.

How quickly the secret would have percolated is a matter of conjecture.

And, as a matter of fact, there have been plenty of secret disciplines at my educational institution that most people still don't know the details or if they ever occurred.

I don't doubt it, but this isn't a college with 40,000 adults. This is year 8 kids. With multiple alleged perpetrators and acts claimed to have occurred in public (in music class).

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

There is no evidence that it is only"mispronouncing" that is the bullying. In fact, the letter sent to the parents mentions other behaviors. Your insistence of persisting in a deliberate mischaracterization of the situation is intellectually dishonest.

No, mentioning 'other behaviours' without any description of what they are at all, and then assuming allegations means guilt, is intellectually dishonest.

Who is assuming allegations means guilt? Not the posters who are saying we need more facts (blastula and myself are example of that) nor is the school - since they are doing an investigation (something required to ascertain the facts).

Toni has already decided the boys are almost certainly guilty, and has already said so. As did ZiprHead.

Let me get this straight - you are justifying your intellectual dishonesty because the school's letter upset your sensibilities about what details should have been included in the letter?

No. I am not justifying intellectual dishonesty because I was not intellectually dishonest.

I have over 20 years experience dealing with these types of situations at my institution. Very rarely does the initial letter give much detail about the alleged misbehavior. It is pretty annoying to the recipient because they frequently have no clue what is going on. I have been told this lack of specificity is to prevent the alleged perpetrator from making up a story. I don't know if it is true, but it makes any interview more like a bushwhacking than anything else.

Sounds like the setup for a kangaroo court, frankly. For the alleged perpetrator to have the charges against them purposely clouded is quite literally Kafkaesque.

You keep alleging that I made up my mind what happened. Please provide a post where I made such assertions or STFU.

The last comment wasn't about you but a comment on how disciplinary investigations are run by schools and universities.

You alleged I already made up my mind about what happened. Provide a post number or STFU.

 

[Metaphor]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns

Saying "the wrong pronouns" is begging the question.

for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction.

Possibly, but you would by admission be deliberately using the wrong pronouns to upset me.

If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

Yes: school children are obliged to attend school. They are also apparently forced to call human females 'they' if the human female asks for it, no matter what their own feelings and beliefs on the matter are.

 

[ZiprHead]

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

If it's done intentionally, yes it is bullying. No question about it.

But the point is, even if there are cases where I would agree it was bullying, you are still begging the question. You already called the boys bullies.

The school thinks they are bullies and they are generally experts at that sort of identification.

 

[Toni]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns

Saying "the wrong pronouns" is begging the question.

for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction.

Possibly, but you would by admission be deliberately using the wrong pronouns to upset me.

If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

Yes: school children are obliged to attend school. They are also apparently forced to call human females 'they' if the human female asks for it, no matter what their own feelings and beliefs on the matter are.

Oh, good. You do recognize that deliberately using the wrong pronouns for someone in order to cause them upset is bullying. Too bad you fail to recognize that the entire works is not as trans abs queer phobic as you are.

 

[Jarhyn]

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

If it's done intentionally, yes it is bullying. No question about it.

But the point is, even if there are cases where I would agree it was bullying, you are still begging the question. You already called the boys bullies.

The school thinks they are bullies and they are generally experts at that sort of identification.

I think it's generally pretty obvious to most people when bullying is happening. Sometimes it's not always clear who the bully is, but usually it is.

Sometimes in a small town, though, administrators take the side of the bullies.

If that's all someone ever knew, being on the wrong side of both the bullies and the people who are supposed to stop it, maybe because of growing up gay in a bad time for that, I could see them thinking that the school had it wrong about who was bullying whom.

But this is most certainly and very clearly a thruple of kids being shitty to someone in a way that is particularly wrong.

 

[Metaphor]

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

If it's done intentionally, yes it is bullying. No question about it.

But the point is, even if there are cases where I would agree it was bullying, you are still begging the question. You already called the boys bullies.

The school thinks they are bullies and they are generally experts at that sort of identification.

The school are experts at finding the accused guilty before investigating anything? That's worrying.

 

[Metaphor]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns

Saying "the wrong pronouns" is begging the question.

for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction.

Possibly, but you would by admission be deliberately using the wrong pronouns to upset me.

If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

Yes: school children are obliged to attend school. They are also apparently forced to call human females 'they' if the human female asks for it, no matter what their own feelings and beliefs on the matter are.

Oh, good. You do recognize that deliberately using the wrong pronouns

I suspect we disagree on what the 'wrong' pronouns are. In fact I am certain we do.

for someone in order to cause them upset is bullying.

Yes, if your sole reason was to upset them, it would be bullying, as would be doing anything with the sole reason being to upset somebody.

Too bad you fail to recognize that the entire works is not as trans abs queer phobic as you are.

What? Not believing someone else's religion doesn't make me 'phobic'.

Also, why do you keep writing 'abs' when you mean 'and'? Is there some joke I am not aware of?

 

[Metaphor]

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

If it's done intentionally, yes it is bullying. No question about it.

But the point is, even if there are cases where I would agree it was bullying, you are still begging the question. You already called the boys bullies.

The school thinks they are bullies and they are generally experts at that sort of identification.

I think it's generally pretty obvious to most people when bullying is happening. Sometimes it's not always clear who the bully is, but usually it is.

Indeed. Forcing others to utter things they do not believe, and having the heavy hand of authority be your enforcer, is certainly bullying behaviour.

 

[Jarhyn]

Waaah, they won't let us bully them! We're so bullied!

And not a single actual tear was shed by the crocodile, nor for him.

 

[laughing dog]

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

If it's done intentionally, yes it is bullying. No question about it.

But the point is, even if there are cases where I would agree it was bullying, you are still begging the question. You already called the boys bullies.

The school thinks they are bullies and they are generally experts at that sort of identification.

I think it's generally pretty obvious to most people when bullying is happening. Sometimes it's not always clear who the bully is, but usually it is.

Indeed. Forcing others to utter things they do not believe, and having the heavy hand of authority be your enforcer, is certainly bullying behaviour.

No one forced those three boys to say anything. They didn't have to use any pronouns.

 

[Toni]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns

Saying "the wrong pronouns" is begging the question.

for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction.

Possibly, but you would by admission be deliberately using the wrong pronouns to upset me.

If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

Yes: school children are obliged to attend school. They are also apparently forced to call human females 'they' if the human female asks for it, no matter what their own feelings and beliefs on the matter are.

Oh, good. You do recognize that deliberately using the wrong pronouns

I suspect we disagree on what the 'wrong' pronouns are. In fact I am certain we do.

for someone in order to cause them upset is bullying.

Yes, if your sole reason was to upset them, it would be bullying, as would be doing anything with the sole reason being to upset somebody.

Too bad you fail to recognize that the entire works is not as trans abs queer phobic as you are.

What? Not believing someone else's religion doesn't make me 'phobic'.

Also, why do you keep writing 'abs' when you mean 'and'? Is there some joke I am not aware of?

As I’ve explained multiple times before, I am a terrible typist. Also sometimes my phone makes ‘interesting’ corrections for me which I do not always catch.

It’s interesting that you consider someone being trans or otherwise non-gender confirming amounts to a religion, rather than their perception of themselves.

Your refusal to accept other people as they are smacks of some of the nastier intolerant beliefs of many religions.

 

[laughing dog]

Your refusal to accept other people as they are smacks of some of the nastier intolerant beliefs of many religions.

That refusal is symptom of most religious people.

 

[Metaphor]

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

If it's done intentionally, yes it is bullying. No question about it.

But the point is, even if there are cases where I would agree it was bullying, you are still begging the question. You already called the boys bullies.

The school thinks they are bullies and they are generally experts at that sort of identification.

I think it's generally pretty obvious to most people when bullying is happening. Sometimes it's not always clear who the bully is, but usually it is.

Indeed. Forcing others to utter things they do not believe, and having the heavy hand of authority be your enforcer, is certainly bullying behaviour.

No one forced those three boys to say anything. They didn't have to use any pronouns.

It's not necessarily true that they didn't have to use any pronouns. Teachers have been reprimanded for not using pronouns.

But, let's say it's true. Let's say if they had just not uttered the forbidden words that are used billions of times a day by English speaking people, they'd have been spared. Do you think authority forbidding words is a useful state of affairs?

 

[Metaphor]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns

Saying "the wrong pronouns" is begging the question.

for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction.

Possibly, but you would by admission be deliberately using the wrong pronouns to upset me.

If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

Yes: school children are obliged to attend school. They are also apparently forced to call human females 'they' if the human female asks for it, no matter what their own feelings and beliefs on the matter are.

Oh, good. You do recognize that deliberately using the wrong pronouns

I suspect we disagree on what the 'wrong' pronouns are. In fact I am certain we do.

for someone in order to cause them upset is bullying.

Yes, if your sole reason was to upset them, it would be bullying, as would be doing anything with the sole reason being to upset somebody.

Too bad you fail to recognize that the entire works is not as trans abs queer phobic as you are.

What? Not believing someone else's religion doesn't make me 'phobic'.

Also, why do you keep writing 'abs' when you mean 'and'? Is there some joke I am not aware of?

As I’ve explained multiple times before, I am a terrible typist. Also sometimes my phone makes ‘interesting’ corrections for me which I do not always catch.

It’s interesting that you consider someone being trans or otherwise non-gender confirming amounts to a religion, rather than their perception of themselves.

In no universe, and certainly not this one, did I claim gender non-conformity amounts to a religion. That wouldn't even make sense, because gender non-conformity in and of itself does not involve beliefs.

The religious aspect is that there are biological girls who believe themselves to be boys. That's all well and fine, until you force me to accept their delusions and signal my acceptance via demanded pronouns.

Your refusal to accept other people as they are smacks of some of the nastier intolerant beliefs of many religions.

That is, of course, complete nonsense. It is the gender ideologists who are completely and proudly intolerant of other people's beliefs.