Three middle school boys charged with sexual harassment for not using “preferred” gender pronouns of classmate

Three middle school boys charged with sexual harassment for not using “preferred” gender pronouns of classmate - The Lion

Three students at a Wisconsin middle school are being charged with sexual harassment for not using another student’s “preferred” gender pronouns. And the legal organization representing the accused suggests one school official may have been on “a fishing expedition to find evidence of sexual...

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Three students at a Wisconsin middle school are being charged with sexual harassment for not using another student’s “preferred” gender pronouns.
And the legal organization representing the accused suggests one school official may have been on “a fishing expedition to find evidence of sexual harassment” during interviews that failed to follow the school’s own policies.

In March, officials at Kiel Middle School first notified the parents of three eighth-grade boys that their sons were being investigated for sexual harassment.
According to the district, the boys failed to use a classmate’s requested pronouns of “they” and “them.” The school claims the conduct is sexual harassment under Title IX, which prohibits gender-based harassment in the form of name-calling.

Rose Rabidoux, the mother of one of the boys, told local media the use of pronouns was “confusing” to her son. She added that the classmate only recently announced the preferred pronouns, suggesting that other students were still adjusting.

“Sexual harassment – that’s rape, that’s incest, that’s inappropriate touching,” Rabidoux said. “What did my son do? He’s a little boy. He told me that he was being charged with sexual harassment for not using the right pronouns.”

Attorneys from the Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty (WILL) are representing the Rabidoux family and the families of the other two students who were accused.
In a May 12 letter sent to the superintendent, the school counselor and the Title IX compliance officer, WILL accuses the district of misinterpreting Title IX, which makes no mention of “gender identity.” They also say none of the alleged behavior “comes remotely close to sexual harassment.”

“The complaint against these boys, and the district’s ongoing investigation, are wholly inappropriate and should be immediately dismissed,” the letter reads.
The letter also argues that the district violated Title IX investigation procedures and the school’s own policies. Based on the evidence provided, WILL says the district should “promptly end the investigation, dismiss the complaints and remove them from each of the boys’ records.”

In response to parents’ complaints, superintendent Brad Ebert released a statement that fails to address the specifics of the case. Instead, the letter notes that the Kiel Area School District “prohibits all forms of bullying and harassment in accordance with all laws, including Title IX, and will continue to support ALL students regardless of race, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, creed, pregnancy, marital status, parental status, sexual orientation, sex (including transgender status, change of sex or gender identity), or physical, mental, emotional or learning disability (“Protected Classes”) in any of its student programs and activities; this is consistent with school board policy. We do not comment on any student matters.”
WILL has asked the district to provide key documents in the case by Friday. If the district fails to respond, the parents are expected to take legal action.

 

[Metaphor]

As I’ve explained multiple times before, I am a terrible typist. Also sometimes my phone makes ‘interesting’ corrections for me which I do not always catch.

Delete 'abs' from your phone dictionary. When it comes up as a suggested word, long press on it and remove it. I suspect unless you are a gym junkie personal trainer, you almost always mean 'and', and not 'abs'.

 

[Toni]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns

Saying "the wrong pronouns" is begging the question.

for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction.

Possibly, but you would by admission be deliberately using the wrong pronouns to upset me.

If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

Yes: school children are obliged to attend school. They are also apparently forced to call human females 'they' if the human female asks for it, no matter what their own feelings and beliefs on the matter are.

Oh, good. You do recognize that deliberately using the wrong pronouns

I suspect we disagree on what the 'wrong' pronouns are. In fact I am certain we do.

for someone in order to cause them upset is bullying.

Yes, if your sole reason was to upset them, it would be bullying, as would be doing anything with the sole reason being to upset somebody.

Too bad you fail to recognize that the entire works is not as trans abs queer phobic as you are.

What? Not believing someone else's religion doesn't make me 'phobic'.

Also, why do you keep writing 'abs' when you mean 'and'? Is there some joke I am not aware of?

As I’ve explained multiple times before, I am a terrible typist. Also sometimes my phone makes ‘interesting’ corrections for me which I do not always catch.

It’s interesting that you consider someone being trans or otherwise non-gender confirming amounts to a religion, rather than their perception of themselves.

In no universe, and certainly not this one, did I claim gender non-conformity amounts to a religion. That wouldn't even make sense, because gender non-conformity in and of itself does not involve beliefs.

The religious aspect is that there are biological girls who believe themselves to be boys. That's all well and fine, until you force me to accept their delusions and signal my acceptance via demanded pronouns.

Your refusal to accept other people as they are smacks of some of the nastier intolerant beliefs of many religions.

That is, of course, complete nonsense. It is the gender ideologists who are completely and proudly intolerant of other people's beliefs.

It’s not my fault that you don’t make sense or that you are so devoted to your rigid ideology that you are unable to see how your personal viewpoint mimics that of many repressive religious organizations.

 

[Metaphor]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns

Saying "the wrong pronouns" is begging the question.

for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction.

Possibly, but you would by admission be deliberately using the wrong pronouns to upset me.

If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

Yes: school children are obliged to attend school. They are also apparently forced to call human females 'they' if the human female asks for it, no matter what their own feelings and beliefs on the matter are.

Oh, good. You do recognize that deliberately using the wrong pronouns

I suspect we disagree on what the 'wrong' pronouns are. In fact I am certain we do.

for someone in order to cause them upset is bullying.

Yes, if your sole reason was to upset them, it would be bullying, as would be doing anything with the sole reason being to upset somebody.

Too bad you fail to recognize that the entire works is not as trans abs queer phobic as you are.

What? Not believing someone else's religion doesn't make me 'phobic'.

Also, why do you keep writing 'abs' when you mean 'and'? Is there some joke I am not aware of?

As I’ve explained multiple times before, I am a terrible typist. Also sometimes my phone makes ‘interesting’ corrections for me which I do not always catch.

It’s interesting that you consider someone being trans or otherwise non-gender confirming amounts to a religion, rather than their perception of themselves.

In no universe, and certainly not this one, did I claim gender non-conformity amounts to a religion. That wouldn't even make sense, because gender non-conformity in and of itself does not involve beliefs.

The religious aspect is that there are biological girls who believe themselves to be boys. That's all well and fine, until you force me to accept their delusions and signal my acceptance via demanded pronouns.

Your refusal to accept other people as they are smacks of some of the nastier intolerant beliefs of many religions.

That is, of course, complete nonsense. It is the gender ideologists who are completely and proudly intolerant of other people's beliefs.

It’s not my fault that you don’t make sense or that you are so devoted to your rigid ideology that you are unable to see how your personal viewpoint mimics that of many repressive religious organizations.

My personal viewpoint is that I don't believe your religion and I should not be required to participate in its rites and rituals.

 

[laughing dog]

It's not necessarily true that they didn't have to use any pronouns. Teachers have been reprimanded for not using pronouns.

Do you have one iota of evidence that these boys were forced to use any pronouns? One can always simply used a person's name or refer to someone as "that person".

But, let's say it's true. Let's say if they had just not uttered the forbidden words that are used billions of times a day by English speaking people, they'd have been spared. Do you think authority forbidding words is a useful state of affairs?

Sometimes yes. For example, do you think it is wrong for a middle school to forbid calling someone the word "motherfucker" or "shithead"?

 

[laughing dog]

My personal viewpoint is that I don't believe your religion and I should not be required to participate in its rites and rituals.

Yet you demand or expect others to believe your religion and be required to participate in its rites and rituals.

 

[Toni]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns

Saying "the wrong pronouns" is begging the question.

for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction.

Possibly, but you would by admission be deliberately using the wrong pronouns to upset me.

If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

Yes: school children are obliged to attend school. They are also apparently forced to call human females 'they' if the human female asks for it, no matter what their own feelings and beliefs on the matter are.

Oh, good. You do recognize that deliberately using the wrong pronouns

I suspect we disagree on what the 'wrong' pronouns are. In fact I am certain we do.

for someone in order to cause them upset is bullying.

Yes, if your sole reason was to upset them, it would be bullying, as would be doing anything with the sole reason being to upset somebody.

Too bad you fail to recognize that the entire works is not as trans abs queer phobic as you are.

What? Not believing someone else's religion doesn't make me 'phobic'.

Also, why do you keep writing 'abs' when you mean 'and'? Is there some joke I am not aware of?

As I’ve explained multiple times before, I am a terrible typist. Also sometimes my phone makes ‘interesting’ corrections for me which I do not always catch.

It’s interesting that you consider someone being trans or otherwise non-gender confirming amounts to a religion, rather than their perception of themselves.

In no universe, and certainly not this one, did I claim gender non-conformity amounts to a religion. That wouldn't even make sense, because gender non-conformity in and of itself does not involve beliefs.

The religious aspect is that there are biological girls who believe themselves to be boys. That's all well and fine, until you force me to accept their delusions and signal my acceptance via demanded pronouns.

Your refusal to accept other people as they are smacks of some of the nastier intolerant beliefs of many religions.

That is, of course, complete nonsense. It is the gender ideologists who are completely and proudly intolerant of other people's beliefs.

It’s not my fault that you don’t make sense or that you are so devoted to your rigid ideology that you are unable to see how your personal viewpoint mimics that of many repressive religious organizations.

My personal viewpoint is that I don't believe your religion and I should not be required to participate in its rites and rituals.

Since you aren’t a student at that middle school, I really don’t understand your point.

I’m also uncertain about your reasoning when you are so concerned about the well being abs futures of the three accused boys abs have zero concern for the fourth child who, one may gather from the articles, is non-gender conforming.

 

[Metaphor]

It's not necessarily true that they didn't have to use any pronouns. Teachers have been reprimanded for not using pronouns.

Do you have one iota of evidence that these boys were forced to use any pronouns? One can always simply used a person's name or refer to someone as "that person".

And the gender ideologists would then complain that avoiding pronouns is discrimination, which has already happened to teachers in America.

In any case, forbidding language is the mark of a despot, and demanding others use your demanded pronouns is unalloyed narcissism.

But, let's say it's true. Let's say if they had just not uttered the forbidden words that are used billions of times a day by English speaking people, they'd have been spared. Do you think authority forbidding words is a useful state of affairs?

Sometimes yes. For example, do you think it is wrong for a middle school to forbid calling someone the word "motherfucker" or "shithead"?

It depends. I have a friend who I call 'queerbag' and he calls me 'homo'. These are terms of endearment for us and if a third party heard it and got offended, that's the third party's problem, not mine. In other contexts, these words would be used to deliberately cause offense, but there is nothing magical about the words that they should be banned.

But, a far better case can be made for banning 'motherfucker' or 'shithead', which are almost never used except as insults, and do not form part of everyday language, and do not force the speaker to convey beliefs they don't believe. But pronouns are used daily by billions and they are almost never meant to be insults.

Gender ideologists are very selective, however, in the behaviour they think is required from people. Many refuse pronouns such as 'lord' or 'bugself'. But they've decided wrong-sex pronouns are fine to demand.

 

[Metaphor]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns

Saying "the wrong pronouns" is begging the question.

for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction.

Possibly, but you would by admission be deliberately using the wrong pronouns to upset me.

If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

Yes: school children are obliged to attend school. They are also apparently forced to call human females 'they' if the human female asks for it, no matter what their own feelings and beliefs on the matter are.

Oh, good. You do recognize that deliberately using the wrong pronouns

I suspect we disagree on what the 'wrong' pronouns are. In fact I am certain we do.

for someone in order to cause them upset is bullying.

Yes, if your sole reason was to upset them, it would be bullying, as would be doing anything with the sole reason being to upset somebody.

Too bad you fail to recognize that the entire works is not as trans abs queer phobic as you are.

What? Not believing someone else's religion doesn't make me 'phobic'.

Also, why do you keep writing 'abs' when you mean 'and'? Is there some joke I am not aware of?

As I’ve explained multiple times before, I am a terrible typist. Also sometimes my phone makes ‘interesting’ corrections for me which I do not always catch.

It’s interesting that you consider someone being trans or otherwise non-gender confirming amounts to a religion, rather than their perception of themselves.

In no universe, and certainly not this one, did I claim gender non-conformity amounts to a religion. That wouldn't even make sense, because gender non-conformity in and of itself does not involve beliefs.

The religious aspect is that there are biological girls who believe themselves to be boys. That's all well and fine, until you force me to accept their delusions and signal my acceptance via demanded pronouns.

Your refusal to accept other people as they are smacks of some of the nastier intolerant beliefs of many religions.

That is, of course, complete nonsense. It is the gender ideologists who are completely and proudly intolerant of other people's beliefs.

It’s not my fault that you don’t make sense or that you are so devoted to your rigid ideology that you are unable to see how your personal viewpoint mimics that of many repressive religious organizations.

My personal viewpoint is that I don't believe your religion and I should not be required to participate in its rites and rituals.

Since you aren’t a student at that middle school, I really don’t understand your point.

I suspected you wouldn't. What is happening in this school is happening everywhere. You want it to happen everywhere. You want people to be punished for refusing demanded pronouns.

I’m also uncertain about your reasoning when you are so concerned about the well being abs futures of the three accused boys abs have zero concern for the fourth child who, one may gather from the articles, is non-gender conforming.

I have no idea if the complainant is gender conforming or not. My personal experience with they/thems is complete gender conformity in outward appearance and interests.

Gender non-conform all you like. I could not care less. But your gender non-conformity does not mean I don't believe you are the sex you obviously are.

 

[laughing dog]

And the gender ideologists would then complain that avoiding pronouns is discrimination, which has already happened to teachers in America.

Only in your dreams

In any case, forbidding language is the mark of a despot, and demanding others use your demanded pronouns is unalloyed narcissism.

Even though I bow to your expertise in unending unalloyed narcissism (as displayed in your many posts), that is just silly.

But, let's say it's true. Let's say if they had just not uttered the forbidden words that are used billions of times a day by English speaking people, they'd have been spared. Do you think authority forbidding words is a useful state of affairs?

Sometimes yes. For example, do you think it is wrong for a middle school to forbid calling someone the word "motherfucker" or "shithead"?

It depends. I have a friend who I call 'queerbag' and he calls me 'homo'. These are terms of endearment for us and if a third party heard it and got offended, that's the third party's problem, not mine. In other contexts, these words would be used to deliberately cause offense, but there is nothing magical about the words that they should be banned......

And yet, many schools and places of work have rules about speech. I guess there are just a lot of despots in the world.

 

[Toni]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns

Saying "the wrong pronouns" is begging the question.

for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction.

Possibly, but you would by admission be deliberately using the wrong pronouns to upset me.

If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

Yes: school children are obliged to attend school. They are also apparently forced to call human females 'they' if the human female asks for it, no matter what their own feelings and beliefs on the matter are.

Oh, good. You do recognize that deliberately using the wrong pronouns

I suspect we disagree on what the 'wrong' pronouns are. In fact I am certain we do.

for someone in order to cause them upset is bullying.

Yes, if your sole reason was to upset them, it would be bullying, as would be doing anything with the sole reason being to upset somebody.

Too bad you fail to recognize that the entire works is not as trans abs queer phobic as you are.

What? Not believing someone else's religion doesn't make me 'phobic'.

Also, why do you keep writing 'abs' when you mean 'and'? Is there some joke I am not aware of?

As I’ve explained multiple times before, I am a terrible typist. Also sometimes my phone makes ‘interesting’ corrections for me which I do not always catch.

It’s interesting that you consider someone being trans or otherwise non-gender confirming amounts to a religion, rather than their perception of themselves.

In no universe, and certainly not this one, did I claim gender non-conformity amounts to a religion. That wouldn't even make sense, because gender non-conformity in and of itself does not involve beliefs.

The religious aspect is that there are biological girls who believe themselves to be boys. That's all well and fine, until you force me to accept their delusions and signal my acceptance via demanded pronouns.

Your refusal to accept other people as they are smacks of some of the nastier intolerant beliefs of many religions.

That is, of course, complete nonsense. It is the gender ideologists who are completely and proudly intolerant of other people's beliefs.

It’s not my fault that you don’t make sense or that you are so devoted to your rigid ideology that you are unable to see how your personal viewpoint mimics that of many repressive religious organizations.

My personal viewpoint is that I don't believe your religion and I should not be required to participate in its rites and rituals.

Since you aren’t a student at that middle school, I really don’t understand your point.

I suspected you wouldn't. What is happening in this school is happening everywhere. You want it to happen everywhere. You want people to be punished for refusing demanded pronouns.

I’m also uncertain about your reasoning when you are so concerned about the well being abs futures of the three accused boys abs have zero concern for the fourth child who, one may gather from the articles, is non-gender conforming.

I have no idea if the complainant is gender conforming or not. My personal experience with they/thems is complete gender conformity in outward appearance and interests.

Gender non-conform all you like. I could not care less. But your gender non-conformity does not mean I don't believe you are the sex you obviously are.

Again, you keep expressing your fantasies about my wants and beliefs.

Says a lot about you that you cannot actually defend your position but instead must post fantasies about other posters.

 

[Metaphor]

As a likely result of the publicity, Kiel Middle School has received 2 bomb threats in past two days

Kiel Middle School received another bomb threat Tuesday as the district continues to investigate allegations of harassment against three boys.

On May 24, at about 7:40 a.m., police received an email with a threat referencing the Title IX investigation by the district. The threat was also sent to some members of the media and a school staff member.

It’s the second bomb threat in two days. The district was evacuated Monday for a bomb threat against the middle school.

Classes were canceled Tuesday due to the threats. The school was locked and no students or staff were in any school buildings at the time of Tuesday’s threat.

A search of the building turned up no devices and it was cleared.

A letter sent to students Tuesday says schools will be closed again on Wednesday, May 25 to allow staff to prepare for virtual learning on Thursday and Friday. The superintendent says the district will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates about plans for learning next week. (Kiel Middle School receives 2nd bomb threat )

It is very likely that these bomb threats are due to the publicizing by the lawyers and parents which means Kiel students have lost 3 days of in-person learning and will probably move to online learning.

The people to blame for the bomb threats are the people who made the bomb threats.

I suspect it would be an 'insider' to the school who would have known about the investigation anyway. I doubt there is anybody at the school who hasn't heard of what's going on.

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

That is begging the question that the 'mispronouning' is bullying.

It is bullying. If I were to deliberately and continually use the wrong pronouns

Saying "the wrong pronouns" is begging the question.

for you, knowing that you objected or that it upset you, the mods would give me an infraction.

Possibly, but you would by admission be deliberately using the wrong pronouns to upset me.

If I persisted, I might be suspended or banned. And you and I are both adults, secure in our identities and our sexuality —and here of our own free will. We are not legally obliged to be here or to participate. Unlike school children.

Yes: school children are obliged to attend school. They are also apparently forced to call human females 'they' if the human female asks for it, no matter what their own feelings and beliefs on the matter are.

Oh, good. You do recognize that deliberately using the wrong pronouns

I suspect we disagree on what the 'wrong' pronouns are. In fact I am certain we do.

for someone in order to cause them upset is bullying.

Yes, if your sole reason was to upset them, it would be bullying, as would be doing anything with the sole reason being to upset somebody.

Too bad you fail to recognize that the entire works is not as trans abs queer phobic as you are.

What? Not believing someone else's religion doesn't make me 'phobic'.

Also, why do you keep writing 'abs' when you mean 'and'? Is there some joke I am not aware of?

As I’ve explained multiple times before, I am a terrible typist. Also sometimes my phone makes ‘interesting’ corrections for me which I do not always catch.

It’s interesting that you consider someone being trans or otherwise non-gender confirming amounts to a religion, rather than their perception of themselves.

In no universe, and certainly not this one, did I claim gender non-conformity amounts to a religion. That wouldn't even make sense, because gender non-conformity in and of itself does not involve beliefs.

The religious aspect is that there are biological girls who believe themselves to be boys. That's all well and fine, until you force me to accept their delusions and signal my acceptance via demanded pronouns.

Your refusal to accept other people as they are smacks of some of the nastier intolerant beliefs of many religions.

That is, of course, complete nonsense. It is the gender ideologists who are completely and proudly intolerant of other people's beliefs.

It’s not my fault that you don’t make sense or that you are so devoted to your rigid ideology that you are unable to see how your personal viewpoint mimics that of many repressive religious organizations.

My personal viewpoint is that I don't believe your religion and I should not be required to participate in its rites and rituals.

Since you aren’t a student at that middle school, I really don’t understand your point.

I suspected you wouldn't. What is happening in this school is happening everywhere. You want it to happen everywhere. You want people to be punished for refusing demanded pronouns.

I’m also uncertain about your reasoning when you are so concerned about the well being abs futures of the three accused boys abs have zero concern for the fourth child who, one may gather from the articles, is non-gender conforming.

I have no idea if the complainant is gender conforming or not. My personal experience with they/thems is complete gender conformity in outward appearance and interests.

Gender non-conform all you like. I could not care less. But your gender non-conformity does not mean I don't believe you are the sex you obviously are.

Again, you keep expressing your fantasies about my wants and beliefs.

Says a lot about you that you cannot actually defend your position but instead must post fantasies about other posters.

"Gender conform all you like" is not about you personally. It's an expression that I don't care what other people do with respect to 'gender conformity'.

 

[Metaphor]

And the gender ideologists would then complain that avoiding pronouns is discrimination, which has already happened to teachers in America.

Only in your dreams

Ah, no. It's already happened.

In any case, forbidding language is the mark of a despot, and demanding others use your demanded pronouns is unalloyed narcissism.

Even though I bow to your expertise in unending unalloyed narcissism (as displayed in your many posts), that is just silly.

I am not interested in people's self assessment of their personalities, whether they call that 'gender' or not.

But, let's say it's true. Let's say if they had just not uttered the forbidden words that are used billions of times a day by English speaking people, they'd have been spared. Do you think authority forbidding words is a useful state of affairs?

Sometimes yes. For example, do you think it is wrong for a middle school to forbid calling someone the word "motherfucker" or "shithead"?

It depends. I have a friend who I call 'queerbag' and he calls me 'homo'. These are terms of endearment for us and if a third party heard it and got offended, that's the third party's problem, not mine. In other contexts, these words would be used to deliberately cause offense, but there is nothing magical about the words that they should be banned......

And yet, many schools and places of work have rules about speech. I guess there are just a lot of despots in the world.

Yes. Many places do. Perhaps some joyless busybody might have overheard my friend and me and went to HR, but it didn't happen. Though that was a decade ago, which may as well have been a lifetime ago.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

From the same link

A Kiel middle school parent said it’s about more than pronouns. The parent explained their child has come home from school crying, as they’ve been the target of homophobic slurs and harassment.

There is no indication that same alleged perpetrators are involved. It is beginning to look like Kiel middle school has a bullying issue.

Is there any school that doesn't have a bullying issue?

 

[laughing dog]

In any case, forbidding language is the mark of a despot, and demanding others use your demanded pronouns is unalloyed narcissism.

Even though I bow to your expertise in unending unalloyed narcissism (as displayed in your many posts), that is just silly.

I am not interested in people's self assessment of their personalities, whether they call that 'gender' or not.

That's fair but he multitude of your whinging OP's on the subject suggest otherwise.

It depends. I have a friend who I call 'queerbag' and he calls me 'homo'. These are terms of endearment for us and if a third party heard it and got offended, that's the third party's problem, not mine. In other contexts, these words would be used to deliberately cause offense, but there is nothing magical about the words that they should be banned......

And yet, many schools and places of work have rules about speech. I guess there are just a lot of despots in the world.

Yes. Many places do. Perhaps some joyless busybody might have overheard my friend and me and went to HR, but it didn't happen. Though that was a decade ago, which may as well have been a lifetime ago.

Your anecdote is about two friends,so it your anecdote is not apropos of the situation.

I strongly suspect that the reason for those places that have rules about speech is that they refuse to participate in your religion and your rites, not despotism.

 

[Toni]

"Gender conform all you like" is not about you personally. It's an expression that I don't care what other people do with respect to 'gender conformity'.

Your statement is more about you not caring about other people and your willingness to use them to spout your own bigotry.

 

[Metaphor]

In any case, forbidding language is the mark of a despot, and demanding others use your demanded pronouns is unalloyed narcissism.

Even though I bow to your expertise in unending unalloyed narcissism (as displayed in your many posts), that is just silly.

I am not interested in people's self assessment of their personalities, whether they call that 'gender' or not.

That's fair but he multitude of your whinging OP's on the subject suggest otherwise.

I care about people forcing me to utter things I don't believe, or forbidding me from uttering things I do.

It depends. I have a friend who I call 'queerbag' and he calls me 'homo'. These are terms of endearment for us and if a third party heard it and got offended, that's the third party's problem, not mine. In other contexts, these words would be used to deliberately cause offense, but there is nothing magical about the words that they should be banned......

And yet, many schools and places of work have rules about speech. I guess there are just a lot of despots in the world.

Yes. Many places do. Perhaps some joyless busybody might have overheard my friend and me and went to HR, but it didn't happen. Though that was a decade ago, which may as well have been a lifetime ago.

Your anecdote is about two friends,so it your anecdote is not apropos of the situation.

I am simply explaining why a blanket ban of words, even words usually considered offensive, is a bad policy.

I strongly suspect that the reason for those places that have rules about speech is that they refuse to participate in your religion and your rites, not despotism.

I do not force anybody to participate in my beliefs or rites.

 

[Metaphor]

"Gender conform all you like" is not about you personally. It's an expression that I don't care what other people do with respect to 'gender conformity'.

Your statement is more about you not caring about other people and your willingness to use them to spout your own bigotry.

I care about many people. I am not a psychopath.

Now, as I said, I am not interested in other people's assessment of their own personality (their "gender identity"). To that statement I will add: neither am I interested in your assessment of my personality.

 

[Jarhyn]

I expect I will always believe in forbidding someone to utter FIRE in a crowded space, no matter whether they believe it, even if it is on fire; rather I expect them to as calmly as possible start ushering people out the nearest door in an orderly manner.

I also expect I will continue believing in forbidding people from saying loudly certain things that I nonetheless believe about folks who are transphobic within communities I frequent, no matter how much I do believe such.

I think that communities of any kind may be a difficult place for any person who believes honestly and consistently that there ought be nothing they are forbidden to say, of that which they believe, no matter the context.

 

[Toni]

"Gender conform all you like" is not about you personally. It's an expression that I don't care what other people do with respect to 'gender conformity'.

Your statement is more about you not caring about other people and your willingness to use them to spout your own bigotry.

I care about many people. I am not a psychopath.

Now, as I said, I am not interested in other people's assessment of their own personality (their "gender identity"). To that statement I will add: neither am I interested in your assessment of my personality.

Nor is the rest of the world interested in your assessment of a 13 year old’s sexuality or their perception of their sexuality.

Yet here you are, affirming the right of three other 13 year olds you don’t know to harass them and talking about how horrible it is for the school to expect those boys to behave decently towards a child you don’t know but whole heartedly disapprove of.

What a bill to climb and die upon.

 

[Metaphor]

"Gender conform all you like" is not about you personally. It's an expression that I don't care what other people do with respect to 'gender conformity'.

Your statement is more about you not caring about other people and your willingness to use them to spout your own bigotry.

I care about many people. I am not a psychopath.

Now, as I said, I am not interested in other people's assessment of their own personality (their "gender identity"). To that statement I will add: neither am I interested in your assessment of my personality.

Nor is the rest of the world interested in your assessment of a 13 year old’s sexuality or their perception of their sexuality.

What on earth are you talking about? "Sexuality"?

Yet here you are, affirming the right of three other 13 year olds you don’t know to harass them

I did not condone harassment. However, you condone the authoritarian harassment and punishment of people for 'mispronouning'. Indeed, you don't even seem to be interested in the investigation. The accusation is the investigation.

and talking about how horrible it is for the school to expect those boys to behave decently towards a child you don’t know but whole heartedly disapprove of.

I believe the school is mistaken to believe 'mispronouning' is a Title IX violation. I also believe that it is absolutely indecent of you or anyone else to force me to perceive someone in a certain way and to force me to say things that are a denial of reality.

What a bill to climb and die upon.

I'm not dead Toni, and unless advocating the freedom of speech becomes a capital crime in Australia, I don't expect to die on this hill either.