Tipping - Who are you actually going to be tipping?

[Elixir]

It works here; I fail to grasp how anyone can be confident that it wouldn't work anywhere else.

I guess you missed the universal healthcare/medicare for all "debate".

 

[ronburgundy]

I always, always, always tip in cash. It's nobody else's business what I choose to give to the person providing the service.

Exactly. Me too. I also go out of my way to make sure the salesperson if they treated me well gets the commission and isn't scooped by some manager. That happens too often.

Note that Trump's law change will allow owner's to require that every penny of tip (cash or not) be handed over to the owner.
If an owner has that policy, it would legally turn the server into a thief for keeping any, even though by any remotely rational or moral definition, the own is the thief.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I always, always, always tip in cash. It's nobody else's business what I choose to give to the person providing the service.

Exactly. Me too. I also go out of my way to make sure the salesperson if they treated me well gets the commission and isn't scooped by some manager. That happens too often.

Note that Trump's law change will allow owner's to require that every penny of tip (cash or not) be handed over to the owner.
If an owner has that policy, it would legally turn the server into a thief for keeping any, even though by any remotely rational or moral definition, the own is the thief.

Servers will be forced to open paypal accounts and write them on the receipt so customers can tip them secretly. Get caught keeping a cash tip and you can get fired.

That is Trump level bullshit.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This is a hard one to play devil's advocate on. What are the arguments in the other direction here? Well, lets see...

Are the people who work in the kitchen paid as little as the waiting staff? If so then that would seem to make sense that they should get part of the tip, since the customer usually tips for the experience they had at the restaurant, including the quality and speed of the food being made and everything else and not just the physical action of bringing food out and smiling and making small talk.

 

[Harry Bosch]

This is a hard one to play devil's advocate on. What are the arguments in the other direction here? Well, lets see...

Are the people who work in the kitchen paid as little as the waiting staff? If so then that would seem to make sense that they should get part of the tip, since the customer usually tips for the experience they had at the restaurant, including the quality and speed of the food being made and everything else and not just the physical action of bringing food out and smiling and making small talk.

Well, as Toni stated earlier, a good waiter will share tips with the busers, dish washers, and the cooks. But the wait staff are taxed on tips. And they are the ones who take the majority of grief from the customers.

 

[TV and credit cards]

You don't have to smile. You can not check on me during the meal. You can leave me waiting for the check. I'll give you a fair tip just for holding down this exhausting job that doesn't pay enough to live off of.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Pooled tips can make sense in some areas where luck and the shift is the main factor in tips. (For example, the casinos here. A dealer has very little influence on the tips they get.) However, in restaurants how you treat the customer can make a big difference. Pooled tips are very unfair in such a situation.

Also, sharing the tips with people who aren't earning them is unfair, period.

However, I suspect this particular case is an oversight, that they didn't mean to legalize pooling and keeping the tips.

 

[Ford]

This is a hard one to play devil's advocate on. What are the arguments in the other direction here? Well, lets see...

Are the people who work in the kitchen paid as little as the waiting staff? If so then that would seem to make sense that they should get part of the tip, since the customer usually tips for the experience they had at the restaurant, including the quality and speed of the food being made and everything else and not just the physical action of bringing food out and smiling and making small talk.

Well, as Toni stated earlier, a good waiter will share tips with the busers, dish washers, and the cooks. But the wait staff are taxed on tips. And they are the ones who take the majority of grief from the customers.

The argument went something like this. A waitress snapped at a cook and said "if it weren't for me you wouldn't have a job!" The cook replied "oh yeah? without me you wouldn't have any food!" Dish dog checked in "good luck carrying that out to the customer in your hands."

There's a lot of people that participate in making your meal at a restaurant. Prep cooks who make it possible for the line cooks to do their job. Unbearable chefs who come up with the menu. Bartenders, hostesses, managers, and yes, even the lowly dish dogs. I imagine it would be a nightmare to try and divvy up the tips at the end of the night.

 

[ronburgundy]

However, I suspect this particular case is an oversight, that they didn't mean to legalize pooling and keeping the tips.

It is not an oversight at all. They deliberately rewrote the rules to specify that owners can keep all the tips for themselves, so long as the servers are making minimum wage. The "pooling" aspect is just a smokescreen to rob workers of their property.
Like all Trump legislation, it was bought and paid for by the rich to solely benefit the rich.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I've worked in a place as a dishwasher and waiter when I was young and in school. As a waiter, I was paid much less than the minimum wage as a waiter because there was an expectation I would receive tips which I had to declare at the end of the day. As a dishwasher, I was very hard-working and they often used me instead of two dishwashers, but my pay was not that much above minimum wage. Let's say minimum wage was around 5.15 or something, then maybe I got 3.15 as a waiter and 6.00 as a dishwasher. That was decades ago and I am not sure what the new minimum is, probably also state dependent.

In some places they also pay bussers less as they may receive some portion of tips from the servers.

...which brings me to my questions. Exactly how are they going to guarantee the waitstaff is receiving a minimum wage if they can arbitrarily pocket and redistribute their money? Are they also going to make all worker-bee staff receive less than minimum wage "just in case?"

 

[Old Woman in Purple]

The operative phrase being "so long as the servers are making minimun wage", isn't it? The current [awful] common practice in the US is for servers to make LESS than minimum wage, with the difference being made up in tips (in which case tips couldn't be snagged).

Now, if this legislation causes business to start actually paying their staff actual minimum wage (in the hopes of making a killing in snagging the tips), won't that end up easing the obligation of customers paying tips (which is what many of us have been desiring for some time)?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I don't mind tipping servers or worker bees but I do mind tipping but not knowing where it's going.

 

[Axulus]

[Youtube]https://youtu.be/NsJCrvkJgZY[/youtube]

 

[ronburgundy]

The operative phrase being "so long as the servers are making minimun wage", isn't it? The current [awful] common practice in the US is for servers to make LESS than minimum wage, with the difference being made up in tips (in which case tips couldn't be snagged).

Now, if this legislation causes business to start actually paying their staff actual minimum wage (in the hopes of making a killing in snagging the tips), won't that end up easing the obligation of customers paying tips (which is what many of us have been desiring for some time)?

Not really.
Many of us tip servers that are already getting minimum wage, because we think that a person working full time shouldn't be living in poverty. And, this law change will just create uncertainty about whose getting the tips, leading some to stop tipping, even when their servers are paid below minimum (b/c customers generally don't know).

What we need is to completely eliminate the minimum exemption for severs, and have a single minimum for all workers that is at a level where any full time person doesn't still require (or even qualify) for public assistance. That would make tips more optional and based on service quality and personal choice of the customer.

 

[ronburgundy]

[Youtube]https://youtu.be/NsJCrvkJgZY[/youtube]

Yeah, it's telling when Trump and the GOP are ideologically aligned with the most despicable person to appear on a show filled with despicable people. Happily that asshole's company failed, and hopefully he was deported.

 

[Worldtraveller]

I'd think it's a nice idea if the employers were required it divide the tips evenly, but they were also privy to what servers were getting tipped or not.

And no, I have no mathematical equation to know that I'm right or wrong.

:EDIT:

And if you eat out, you always bring cash

Like Ford, I did every job at a restaurant. Serving is by the far the most difficult job. It's not easy keeping everyone happy. If tips were divided evenly, I would have bussed tables rather than wait all day long!

the restaurant I worked out, the bussers were traditionally tipped about 1/3 of the waiters' takings. On busy days, each waiter/busser was a team, but most of the time, there were 2 bussers/3 waiters. However, bussing was classified differently, so they got paid actual min wage (around $6.50 at the time), so it roughly evened out. I generally preferred bussing tables for that reason. We didn't pool tips, and would only occasionally tip the kitchen (for special orders or they really went out of their way for something). Having the restaurant control it would suck.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I'd think it's a nice idea if the employers were required it divide the tips evenly, but they were also privy to what servers were getting tipped or not.

And no, I have no mathematical equation to know that I'm right or wrong.

:EDIT:

And if you eat out, you always bring cash

Like Ford, I did every job at a restaurant. Serving is by the far the most difficult job. It's not easy keeping everyone happy. If tips were divided evenly, I would have bussed tables rather than wait all day long!

the restaurant I worked out, the bussers were traditionally tipped about 1/3 of the waiters' takings. On busy days, each waiter/busser was a team, but most of the time, there were 2 bussers/3 waiters. However, bussing was classified differently, so they got paid actual min wage (around $6.50 at the time), so it roughly evened out. I generally preferred bussing tables for that reason. We didn't pool tips, and would only occasionally tip the kitchen (for special orders or they really went out of their way for something). Having the restaurant control it would suck.

Yea, if the pay were equal, I'd 10 times rather buss than wait tables. The waiter has to deal with a lot of crap.

 

[Toni]

the restaurant I worked out, the bussers were traditionally tipped about 1/3 of the waiters' takings. On busy days, each waiter/busser was a team, but most of the time, there were 2 bussers/3 waiters. However, bussing was classified differently, so they got paid actual min wage (around $6.50 at the time), so it roughly evened out. I generally preferred bussing tables for that reason. We didn't pool tips, and would only occasionally tip the kitchen (for special orders or they really went out of their way for something). Having the restaurant control it would suck.

Yea, if the pay were equal, I'd 10 times rather buss than wait tables. The waiter has to deal with a lot of crap.

I think that cooking is the most high stress job, and is usually not well paid. Servers come immediately after that, though.


Asking our European friends: I believe that in most cases, a gratuity is included in the bill after a meal at a restaurant. Who gets the gratuity? How are cooks and chefs compensated relative to how waitstaff is compensated?

 

[J842P]

the restaurant I worked out, the bussers were traditionally tipped about 1/3 of the waiters' takings. On busy days, each waiter/busser was a team, but most of the time, there were 2 bussers/3 waiters. However, bussing was classified differently, so they got paid actual min wage (around $6.50 at the time), so it roughly evened out. I generally preferred bussing tables for that reason. We didn't pool tips, and would only occasionally tip the kitchen (for special orders or they really went out of their way for something). Having the restaurant control it would suck.

Yea, if the pay were equal, I'd 10 times rather buss than wait tables. The waiter has to deal with a lot of crap.

I think that cooking is the most high stress job, and is usually not well paid. Servers come immediately after that, though.


Asking our European friends: I believe that in most cases, a gratuity is included in the bill after a meal at a restaurant. Who gets the gratuity? How are cooks and chefs compensated relative to how waitstaff is compensated?

Cooking is high-stress but you are actually allowed to be stressed out. You can look stressed out and say all sorts of thing behind the line. In the front of the house, you have to maintain composure. I'd prefer to be a cook if money wasn't an issue.

 

[SimpleDon]

Yes, the money is regarded as the server's money in the scenario I described. But it was also considered good form to tip out back of the house. My kid had a great relationship with everyone back of the house because she never neglected this, even on bad nights. In return, her orders were up pretty quick.

I admit that I am really torn regarding tips. I know how much my kids have depended upon tips for their livelihood. They were lucky enough to work in some pretty decent to extremely good places so that helped with the tips. I know that dishwashers get paid crap and cooks don't get paid decently either.

In my ideal world, everyone would earn a decent wage.

I've worked in anti-poverty programs before, so I've seen the problems low wages create (and have lived it, too, although I was lucky that it was brief). My town is extremely working class, with local employers paying very poorly and offering terrible benefits packages. When they can, they limit hours available to just under the minimum required to provide even those terrible benefits. What this does is create a large group of people who live so close to the edge that they often fall off of it, even working two or three part time jobs. The stress that this creates in their life simply makes their situation worse. It greatly increases the amount of substance abuse, mostly alcohol, but not entirely. It exacerbates mental health issues, physical health issues, weight issues, education issues and effectively robs their kids of parents who have the luxury of doing anything other than parking their kids in front of a screen while they try to recover from their day/night. It adds to instability of marriages and other relationships. It creates and maintains an underclass which needs the largess of the more fortunate just to survive. Employers use unreliability of workers to justify low wages, refusing to accept that their low wages create so much stress and financial insecurity that they must juggle multiple jobs, constantly worry about their kids, worry about losing phone and lights (in winter, you cannot have your heat cut in my area), their homes. And so, they drink. A lot. Which is not a good way to solve their problem and only creates more but it is easily available and lets them escape for a few hours from the unrelenting stress of not being able to make ends meet.

Access to better and affordable job training and educational programs would really help--but I know plenty of people with good degrees working some pretty low paying jobs.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd think it's a nice idea if the employers were required it divide the tips evenly, but they were also privy to what servers were getting tipped or not.

And no, I have no mathematical equation to know that I'm right or wrong.

:EDIT:

And if you eat out, you always bring cash

I ALWAYS tip in cash, even if I am charging my meal. And I tip well. Applies to the wonderful woman who does my hair and any other tip-dependent person I encounter.

It all boils down to insecurity. Not only do employers foster insecurity among their workers, the entire class war against the workers is based on increasing workers' insecurity wherever they can. The battle against inflation by the Fed is focused like a laser on wages and the only solution that they use is to increase unemployment by raising interest rates, ignoring the most obvious solution, increasing taxes to absorb the excess cash in the economy. Or to embark on the largest foreign aid project in history by moving a large part of our industrial production to China, nominally one of our two largest potential enemies, providing corporations with a club to use in wage negotiations, that we can move your job to China. Or to have the economic policies of the US zeroed in on increasing profits and not wages to the point that they are actively supporting profits and actively suppressing wages, suppressing unions, refusing to raise the minimum wage, etc. Or producing a race to the bottom to provide tax relief to attract manufacturing and other facilities from other jurisdictions, started by Mississippi thirty years ago when they were fiftieth out of fifty in almost all areas in economic development, responsible for propelling them to where they are today, still fiftieth out of fifty with a much lowered tax base due to all of the tax easements they provided. Or expanding and spreading talk about the effect of automation costing jobs at a time when spending for automation is decreasing and has produced productivity increases to zero.

Everything that the Milton Friedman neoliberals proposed and the Republicans, movement conservatives and Libertarians (because libertarians are different than conservatives and definitely are not just Republicans who want to do drugs legally) enthusiastically adopted increased the insecurity of workers. People who are afraid of losing their jobs don't ask for higher wages. People who are afraid of losing their jobs don't complain about their working conditions. People who are afraid of losing their jobs don't complain about not having healthcare insurance for their families or about increasing co-payments and higher deductibles.