Today i was diagnosed

[Keith&Co.]

Today I learned that the reason I'm an atheist is that something bad happened to me.
Abused by a religious authority, maybe, or someone died and I blamed God for the lost. maybe my puppy got run over while I watched?

I don't remember anything like that. My atheism was a slow realization, nothing traumatic.

But is this even possible? For anyone?

Time and again, people have told me it must be horrible to be an atheist because their religion is such a comfort in times of stress, sorrow, or loss. And I don't have that. I do kinda remember being religious and all of us passing those platitudes around at funerals and so on. The mantra that God has a reason behind taking Aunt Donna, or Grandpa went to a better place, or one day we'll understand why Tippy had to try to fight a coyote over that dead skunk on the highway...

So that's what I'm questioning. If I HAD faced a horrible event while i was a believer, wouldn't my faith have seen me through? That whole 'one set of footprints' poem, during the lowest and the saddest, where my faith and God walk in single file to hide their numbers? The same emotional support that makes people rush to the reporter who's covering the hurricane or the tornado, to thank God that they were delivered no matter how many fatalities are reported?

So wouldn't something have had to happen BEFORE the lowest/saddest point? Something to take my faith in that crutch away, so that my faith did NOT carry me through the horrible experience?

It only makes sense. I'd have to actually lose my faith in order to traumatically lose my faith.

I mean, the only other explanation is that the Faithful telling me about my atheism being nested in trauma are just making shit up to feel better about their own faith. To convince themselves that my atheism is an emotional reaction, nothing that actually has to be dealt with rationally. Another platitude for their benefit,not mine.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Yup, you'd think these tired old cliches would die after a time, but no.

 

[phands]

Time and again, people have told me it must be horrible to be an atheist because their religion is such a comfort in times of stress, sorrow, or loss.

In far too many cases, the religion is the cause of the stress, sorrow and loss.

I find that being an atheist actually makes me feel better about myself, because I do good/right/morally correct things as a free choice, not out of fear of retribution from a vindictive angry sky-fairy.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I mean, the only other explanation is that the Faithful telling me about my atheism being nested in trauma are just making shit up to feel better about their own faith. To convince themselves that my atheism is an emotional reaction, nothing that actually has to be dealt with rationally. Another platitude for their benefit,not mine.

It's the opposite experience for me. Atheism is the rational choice whereas earlier religion was the emotional choice. And that's what I observe primarily about religion, that it's like having a favorite sports team or being overly superstitious, it's not an experience open to question. Even people who have been abused by religious clerics still remain loyal to the larger organization.

Religion most likely results from an inability to separate emotional from rational experiences. They're all mixed together as emotional experiences.

 

[steve_bank]

As I posted before my imaginary car Spot gives me plenty of comfort.

Religionn is fine until it becomes obcession as we ssee play out in the media.

What you are describing is the old Catholic guilt trip. No matter what you are guilty if you reject the RCC. As someone who went through the RCC schools, it is a subtle indoctrination. Leave the church and you feel bad for no apparent reason.

The Evangelicals are good at drawing people into their guilt trip, it validates them.

For me real human freedom begins when you finally through off relgion and you no konger feel compelled to explain your self.

I always felt compelled to be gracious with Christian intrusion. Now I just say no as politley and briefly as I can. How they feel is not my problem. They imediatly get you to feel guilty about rejecting them. It is a practised art, put you back on your heels to make you justify rejecting religion.

Ouce you take that first breath of liberated thought without justification nothing else compares.

 

[Underseer]

Keith, it's not you, it's them.

I'm quite serious.

They're afraid of a specific argument that confuses and terrifies them: the argument from nonbelief, also called the problem of divine hiddenness:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_nonbelief



They are so afraid of this argument that they will cook up all kinds of ridiculous arguments to avoid thinking about it. Many will even decide that you secretly agree with them and that you are lying about being an atheist. All because the mere existence of people who don't believe in god has disturbing (for them) theological implications.

If they can't come up with a good explanation for why anyone would fail to believe in god, then they have to admit that their claim that god wants a relationship with everyone is simply false. God could easily "talk" to you the same way he "talks" to them. They don't want to admit that they are talking to themselves, so there must be some terrible reason you turned your back on god and stopped listening to him.

Also, if you don't automatically accept the truth of god's existence, then they might have to learn how the burden of proof works, and that would be really troubling.

No, it's easier to think that you stopped believing because of some terrible tragedy, or that you decided to be atheist because you "just want to sin," or that you secretly agree with them and are lying about being atheist. Anything but think about what the existence of atheists says about reality.

 

[Jobar]

They are so afraid of this argument that they will cook up all kinds of ridiculous arguments to avoid thinking about it. Many will even decide that you secretly agree with them and that you are lying about being an atheist. All because the mere existence of people who don't believe in god has disturbing (for them) theological implications.

As I said recently, "If you think about it, the fact that atheism even exists as a concept is a pretty good argument for atheism. At least, it seems a benevolent and all powerful God, who wanted His creations to know Him, would simply instill the knowledge of His existence, and what He wants of us, into the very architecture of our brains. Doubt would be physically impossible." So yes, there are believers who claim that all of us who call ourselves atheists are lying, 'cause we're mad at God or some such nonsense.

 

[Keith&Co.]

They are so afraid of this argument that they will cook up all kinds of ridiculous arguments to avoid thinking about it. Many will even decide that you secretly agree with them and that you are lying about being an atheist. All because the mere existence of people who don't believe in god has disturbing (for them) theological implications.

As I said recently, "If you think about it, the fact that atheism even exists as a concept is a pretty good argument for atheism. At least, it seems a benevolent and all powerful God, who wanted His creations to know Him, would simply instill the knowledge of His existence, and what He wants of us, into the very architecture of our brains. Doubt would be physically impossible." So yes, there are believers who claim that all of us who call ourselves atheists are lying, 'cause we're mad at God or some such nonsense.

They often try to claim god did not do this beause free will, or something. Mif we had direct knowledge of god, we couldn't make an honest choice FOR god.

But after the Jews were delivered out if Egypt, directly benefitting from and witness to a series of miracles, they had enough free will to jettison Jehovah and pick a random idol to worship. So, pretty much fuck that idea...

 

[Copernicus]

Perhaps the bad thing that happened to you was that you were indoctrinated into a religious faith. Had you not been, you would never have lost your faith.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

If I HAD faced a horrible event while i was a believer, wouldn't my faith have seen me through?.

Only if you really had enough faith to begin with. Obviously you were never a True Believer™ in the first place, or you'd still be one now.

 

[Jobar]

Yeah. Obviously none of us de-converts were True Christians!

 

[Elixir]

Today I learned that the reason I'm an atheist is that something bad happened to me.
Abused by a religious authority, maybe, or someone died and I blamed God for the lost. maybe my puppy got run over while I watched?

I don't remember anything like that. My atheism was a slow realization, nothing traumatic.

But is this even possible? For anyone?

Time and again, people have told me it must be horrible to be an atheist because their religion is such a comfort in times of stress, sorrow, or loss. And I don't have that. I do kinda remember being religious and all of us passing those platitudes around at funerals and so on. The mantra that God has a reason behind taking Aunt Donna, or Grandpa went to a better place, or one day we'll understand why Tippy had to try to fight a coyote over that dead skunk on the highway...

So that's what I'm questioning. If I HAD faced a horrible event while i was a believer, wouldn't my faith have seen me through? That whole 'one set of footprints' poem, during the lowest and the saddest, where my faith and God walk in single file to hide their numbers? The same emotional support that makes people rush to the reporter who's covering the hurricane or the tornado, to thank God that they were delivered no matter how many fatalities are reported?

So wouldn't something have had to happen BEFORE the lowest/saddest point? Something to take my faith in that crutch away, so that my faith did NOT carry me through the horrible experience?

It only makes sense. I'd have to actually lose my faith in order to traumatically lose my faith.

I mean, the only other explanation is that the Faithful telling me about my atheism being nested in trauma are just making shit up to feel better about their own faith. To convince themselves that my atheism is an emotional reaction, nothing that actually has to be dealt with rationally. Another platitude for their benefit,not mine.

My diagnosis is ...
Blocked memories! Your mind has wiped itself clean, erasing that terrible time when Grandpa ran over the puppy and Aunt Donna, who popped like a water balloon, covering you with blood, then died of a heart attack. Is it starting to come back to you now?
That'll be $125.00 please. If you still don't remember, we will have to repeat this exercise every day until the mind-block clears.
See you here tomorrow, same time?