Trump 2024?

[jab]

Okay, so your choice is just to use words as you'd prefer.

I described what I meant by the words.

If you've got a different meaning for them, feel free to say.
Tom

Well, yes America in the 2000s--well, actually for my whole life, from the 1950s onwards, except briefly in mid to late 1970s-- has felt like Alice in Wonderland.

 

[Swammerdami]

It's fun to view the highlights of a Presidency. For JFK the reel would include the "Ask not what your country can do for you" speech, the trip to Berlin, his announcements during the Cuban Missile Crisis and especially his "We choose to go to the Moon not because it is easy but because it is hard" speech. Other Presidents also had their great moments.

Here's the highlight reel for the Trump Administration.

 

[Hermit]

It's fun to view the highlights of a Presidency. For JFK the reel would include the "Ask not what your country can do for you" speech, the trip to Berlin, his announcements during the Cuban Missile Crisis and especially his "We choose to go to the Moon not because it is easy but because it is hard" speech. Other Presidents also had their great moments.

Here's the highlight reel for the Trump Administration.

President Kennedy was first and foremost an inveterate cold war warrior. Nothing wrong with that in itself. The years from 1945 and 1991 were a fight for supremacy between two superpowers, and JFK was the figurehead of one of them. Kennedy was very good at bullshitting. Nothing could be more bullshit than when he said "We choose to go to the moon not because it is easy but because it is hard". The US got startled when the USSR stole a march in the space race with the launch of Sputnik. It had to prove that capitalism is superior to what was portrayed as communism by stepping on the moon first. That was all there was to it.

If you want to compare Trump with any other president, I suggest watching the difference in style with which Obama announced the death of Osama Bin Laden and how Trump went about announcing the death of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. This cropped version will do just fine.

 

[Keith&Co.]

The US got startled when the USSR stole a march in the space race with the launch of Sputnik. It had to prove that capitalism is superior to what was portrayed as communism by stepping on the moon first. That was all there was to it

Yeah, we do that.

After WWII., there was debate about where to put the nukes we were building. Silos, bombers, a few other options. One suggestion was submarines.
There was a lot of support for the idea, and a LOT of pushback. Some questioned if it was feasible, some if it was even possible.
In September, 1955, the Soviets managed to cram a silo into a sub and launch a missile. Less than a month later, Admiral Raborn had a department, a budget, and a ten-year deadline to build what became the Polaris missile program.
The introductory presentation they gave me to inducy new hires never mentions the Soviet milestone...

 

[Bronzeage]

Trump running in '24 is probably Sleepy Joe's best chance for re-election.
They could run Gomhert, Gaetz, Greene or Gosar and have a cakewalk. But Running a twice impeached two time loser who tried to abolish democracy...
That would be a real gifty for the Dems.

The only reason Trump would be the 2024 nominee would be to spare the short list of Republicans who have a shot at the 2028 nomination.

 

[Derec]

We used to be "The Nation of Immigrants". They want to progress beyond that old nonsense.

Things change. The world changes. Overly permissive immigration policies of the 19th century do not make sense in the 21st century.

 

[Derec]

tendency among progressives is to sacrifice some of the former for the sake of the latter.

Not in all aspects. Abortion or gays? Sure. In others things, like consensual sex work, they are as, or even more, authoritarian than the conservatives. When it comes to what kinds of speech should be "cancelled", so-called "progressives" are also very much in favor of restricting speech to what they find acceptable.

Neo-conservatives like Hillary Clinton - and now Joseph Biden - try to have it both ways. That has not worked out well for the vast majority of the electorate since the early to mid 1970s. Before then the rising tide lifted all boats, albeit at different rates.

Biden a neo-conservative? LMAO! It does not even apply to Hillary "vote for me because I am female" Clinton and much less to Joe Biden, who has turned out to be more left than say Obama.

 

[Hermit]

tendency among progressives is to sacrifice some of the former for the sake of the latter.

Not in all aspects. Abortion or gays? Sure. In others things, like consensual sex work, they are as, or even more, authoritarian than the conservatives.

Can you cite a source for that extraordinary claim, Derec? It turns out that the opposite is true, which only surprises those for whom facts are irrelevant. Democrats were more likely to support decriminalization, with 64 percent in favor, compared with 55 percent of independents and 37 percent of Republicans.

When it comes to what kinds of speech should be "cancelled", so-called "progressives" are also very much in favor of restricting speech to what they find acceptable.

Oh, progressives are in favour of restricting speech to what they find acceptable. How courageous of them to voice such opinions. Meanwhile, conservatives are actually acting on the same sentiment. They have embarked on a concerted campaign to invade school boards in order to succeed in a book-banning spree. They have similar projects on the go to remove books from public libraries they find unacceptable. Glenn Youngkin, said during his gubernatorial campaign that he would ban critical race theory on his first day in office.

What next? Public book burnings? Oh, wait. That's already happening. Tennessee Republicans hold a book burning to destroy Harry Potter, Twilight, and other "demonic" titles. The students at the Georgia Southern University who burnt Jennine Capo Crucet's book on white privilege and racism were probably not progressives either.

Neo-conservatives like Hillary Clinton - and now Joseph Biden - try to have it both ways. That has not worked out well for the vast majority of the electorate since the early to mid 1970s. Before then the rising tide lifted all boats, albeit at different rates.

Biden a neo-conservative? LMAO! It does not even apply to Hillary "vote for me because I am female" Clinton and much less to Joe Biden, who has turned out to be more left than say Obama.

Yes, neo-conservative. You missed the bit where I wrote "it might help if you are mindful of the difference between economic liberalism and social liberalism." The pandemic has forced Biden to put the brakes on economic liberalism, though.

 

[Elixir]

Things change. The world changes.

Yeah xenophobia waxes and wanes.

 

[Elixir]

Biden a neo-conservative? LMAO! It does not even apply to Hillary "vote for me because I am female" Clinton and much less to Joe Biden, who has turned out to be more left than say Obama.

Yet somewhere far to the right of Eisenhower.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

tendency among progressives is to sacrifice some of the former for the sake of the latter.

Not in all aspects. Abortion or gays? Sure. In others things, like consensual sex work, they are as, or even more, authoritarian than the conservatives. When it comes to what kinds of speech should be "cancelled", so-called "progressives" are also very much in favor of restricting speech to what they find acceptable.

Neo-conservatives like Hillary Clinton - and now Joseph Biden - try to have it both ways. That has not worked out well for the vast majority of the electorate since the early to mid 1970s. Before then the rising tide lifted all boats, albeit at different rates.

Biden a neo-conservative? LMAO! It does not even apply to Hillary "vote for me because I am female" Clinton and much less to Joe Biden, who has turned out to be more left than say Obama.

Obama wasn't particularly liberal, nor was Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden. In fact, it could be argued the Democrats have NEVER managed to elect a particularly liberal person to the White House.

 

[Bronzeage]

tendency among progressives is to sacrifice some of the former for the sake of the latter.

Not in all aspects. Abortion or gays? Sure. In others things, like consensual sex work, they are as, or even more, authoritarian than the conservatives. When it comes to what kinds of speech should be "cancelled", so-called "progressives" are also very much in favor of restricting speech to what they find acceptable.

Neo-conservatives like Hillary Clinton - and now Joseph Biden - try to have it both ways. That has not worked out well for the vast majority of the electorate since the early to mid 1970s. Before then the rising tide lifted all boats, albeit at different rates.

Biden a neo-conservative? LMAO! It does not even apply to Hillary "vote for me because I am female" Clinton and much less to Joe Biden, who has turned out to be more left than say Obama.

Obama wasn't particularly liberal, nor was Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden. In fact, it could be argued the Democrats have NEVER managed to elect a particularly liberal person to the White House.

The labels liberal and conservative were once opposites on a spectrum, but that is no longer the case. When support for conservatism was waning because their economic policies were failing, conservatives turned to racism and xenophobia to appeal to white voters who had traditionally voted Democratic for economic reasons. Government policies such as voting rights and civil rights were blamed for their perceived economic stagnation. At this point, Republican strategists abandoned any pretense of valuing truth or reason. All that mattered was constructing a message which could corral votes of their base. There is no attempt to appeal to the general population of voters. All they want is to concentrate votes for a particular candidate.

This allowed the Democrats to take more of the moderate middle ground, which forced the Republicans closer to fascism in order to maintain their base.

 

[Derec]

Obama wasn't particularly liberal, nor was Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden.

How do you define "liberal". Bill Clinton was a moderate on most issues, I would grant you that, but Obama was to the left of him, and Biden is to the left of Obama.

In fact, it could be argued the Democrats have NEVER managed to elect a particularly liberal person to the White House.

Again, that depends on your definition of the term.

 

[Derec]

Yeah xenophobia waxes and wanes.

I reject the asinine notion that controlling one's border and being selective about migration is "xenophobia".

 

[Derec]

conservatives turned to racism and xenophobia to appeal to white voters who had traditionally voted Democratic for economic reasons.

More like: the left turned toward anti-white identity politics. Things like so-called "affirmative action" and "critical race theory" (which is even infecting math education in places like California) have become non-negotiable among Democrats.

 

[Derec]

Yet somewhere far to the right of Eisenhower.

How so?

 

[Hermit]

Obama wasn't particularly liberal, nor was Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden.

How do you define "liberal". Bill Clinton was a moderate on most issues, I would grant you that, but Obama was to the left of him, and Biden is to the left of Obama.

In fact, it could be argued the Democrats have NEVER managed to elect a particularly liberal person to the White House.

Again, that depends on your definition of the term.

To start with, you need to make clear whether you're talking about economic liberalism or social liberalism. I told you in this post a couple of days ago.

The same post, incidentally in which I schooled you in regard to your bizarre assertion that progressives are as, or even more, authoritarian than the conservatives in regard to the issue of consensual sex work, which you also ignored.

 

[Derec]

Can you cite a source for that extraordinary claim, Derec?

It's not a single source. It's a combination of evidence. The sexist "Swedish model" itself is a creation of the feminist Left and has been adopted by left-wing governments in places like France, Spain and Canada. German far-left Left Party (they include elements of East German "Socialist Unity Party" SED) is also pushing for it.
In the US, the anti-sex work SASTA/FOSTA abomination was passed with bipartisan supermajorities. In the House, comparable numbers of Democrats and Republicans voted against. In the Senate, only 2 did so - one Democrat, one Republican.

It turns out that the opposite is true, which only surprises those for whom facts are irrelevant. Democrats were more likely to support decriminalization, with 64 percent in favor, compared with 55 percent of independents and 37 percent of Republicans.

"Turns out" is a rather strong statement based on nothing more than a flimsy poll by a partisan "Data for Progress". I am skeptical of the poll because many on the left use decriminalization language to mean the sexist Swedish model which is decriminalization for providers only. For example, when the previous Manhattan DA announced that he will no longer prosecute prostitution, he made it clear that he still wants to prosecute customers. The Swedish model is left-wing, "progressive" orthodoxy and is supported also by many on here, most vocally Toni.

Meanwhile, conservatives are actually acting on the same sentiment. They have embarked on a concerted campaign to invade school boards in order to succeed in a book-banning spree. They have similar projects on the go to remove books from public libraries they find unacceptable. Glenn Youngkin, said during his gubernatorial campaign that he would ban critical race theory on his first day in office.

Disagreements about curriculum are different than free speech issues. I do not think branding one race as uniquely racist (which is what CRT does) is good educational policy. Nor is insisting that math is racist like California wants to do. Public school should not be places of ideological indoctrination - from the left or from the right.

Extremists on both sides of the spectrum are bad. Left-wing extremists are no better than right-wing ones.

What next? Public book burnings? Oh, wait. That's already happening.

And for years the "progressives" have been actively trying to prevent conservative and pro-Israel speakers from speaking at universities, including disruptive tactics if they could not persuade the administration from banning the speaker outright.
Calls from the left to restrict speech have also been going on for years.

Yes, neo-conservative. You missed the bit where I wrote "it might help if you are mindful of the difference between economic liberalism and social liberalism." The pandemic has forced Biden to put the brakes on economic liberalism, though.

Biden has shifted far left, which is a shame. But that does not mean Hillary is a "neoconservative".

 

[Derec]

To start with, you need to make clear whether you're talking about economic liberalism or social liberalism. I told you in this post a couple of days ago.

Well, if we are talking about a person or a party as a whole, it has to be a combination of the two.
And even within "social liberalism" there are nuances because people can be liberal on one issue (gays, abortion) and conservative on another (sex work).

The same post, incidentally in which I schooled you in regard to your bizarre assertion that progressives are as, or even more, authoritarian than the conservatives in regard to the issue of consensual sex work, which you also ignored.

I have not ignored it.

 

[Swammerdami]

I don't even know what liberal means any more.

It might help if you are mindful of the difference between economic liberalism and social liberalism. Conservatives tend to favour the former and deprecate the latter. The tendency among progressives is to sacrifice some of the former for the sake of the latter. Neo-conservatives like Hillary Clinton - and now Joseph Biden - try to have it both ways. That has not worked out well for the vast majority of the electorate since the early to mid 1970s. Before then the rising tide lifted all boats, albeit at different rates.

I'm curious why you label Joe Biden as a "neo-conservative" — recall that he opposed the 1991 Gulf War. And where you imply that Biden embraces "economic liberalism", how does this mesh with his very progressive proposals for taxes and spending?