Trump and Outrage Fatigue

[Jolly_Penguin]

With Trump being Trump, and the media being the media, we have had a constant stream of outrage for the past two years. When he got elected people warned against it becoming the new normal, but I think it now has, and I think this may land Trump his re-election if the Democrats focus on outrage against him rather than a positive message of their own. I can sadly see this happening.

Thoughts?

 

[Opoponax]

The Dems can do both: run against him and push a better agenda.

As for fatigue, it's hard to say. The fact is that most people don't pay close attention to the news. But that makes it important to keep the spotlight on Trump's corruption.

The "new normal" thing is a poor phrase. What Trump does is normal for Trump, but that doesn't mean that it's becoming acceptable to most people. Polls consistently show that it's not acceptable. Further, given the economy right now, or at least the glowing reports of the economy, Trump should be well above 50% approval. If a recession occurs, he'll drop into the mid 30's or maybe even lower.

Barring serious election fuckery, which is a legitimate possibility, there's no way Trump gets reelected in 2020, and it's a fair bet to say he won't make it to 2020.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Just another lame right wing gaslight tactic. Any “fatigue” that exists is clearly among the Republican voters who can no longer defend the indefensible. Every single time Trump does something indefensible—and those numbers are in the thousands now—the overwhelming roars from the majority speak out against him, while the same handful of Trump sycophants desperately try to spin it with idiotic tactics like this.

Come on, guys, don’t you thnk he’s had enough?

Not until he’s out of office.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Any “fatigue” that exists is clearly among the Republican voters who can no longer defend the indefensible.

If you rely on that and don't push a vision that attracts voters, you will risk a second term for Trump. A positive image needs to be spread. Obama did it well. You need another Yes we can. You need another "there is no blue america or red america; there is the United states of America" etc. We're not seeing this other than from the Bernie wing of the party. The Pelosi wing are still like Hillary was, caught up in outrage and nothing more, to hide their corporate democrat agenda that hasn't changed one iota.

Where is the huge push to get rid of the electoral college? Where is the huge push to break the two party dominance and first pas the post voting? Where is the huge outcry against gerrymandering? We're not even hearing much about universal single payer health care anymore. If the only focus is the latest outrage by Trump, you will just generate apathy and burnout on the left, and motivate the right as they have been the the Kavanaugh circus. The Republican vote is going up, not down. And it could and should be very very different.

Yes, standing against Trump for his persona and his words makes sense. But not if that is the dominant or only message being pushed. Trump being who he is was readily apparent before the 2016 election, and yet he won. You need more than "We aren't him".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Bullshit Jolly. What was the GOP vision in 2010 midterms? I mean other than the ACA was going to kill people.

Yes, whining about it won’t help but it is getting a bit desperate that it doesn’t matter what Dems say, the GOP has hijacked America,

 

[Elixir]

Bullshit Jolly. What was the GOP vision in 2010 midterms? I mean other than the ACA was going to kill people.

Yes, whining about it won’t help but it is getting a bit desperate that it doesn’t matter what Dems say, the GOP has hijacked America,

Yup, I totally agree. I don't care if the Dems run on 100% Trumpophobia and turn the Hillary thing on its head- "when they go low, we'll go lower".
And why not do that? The shit that is TRUE about republicans is worse than the shit the republicans made up about Hillary. E.g., Hillary never ran a child trafficking ring out of a pizza shop, but Cheato did indeed kidnap THOUSANDS of children, separated them from their parents, did irreparable damage to thousands of families, and still won't give hundreds of those children back.
There are a thousand such examples, so I say to Dems - GO FOR IT. And ditto the media.
The shame of it is that even if Dems can throw the switch on the Trump train, the track that that will put us on will be of poorer quality than it would have been if the entire US government had not already been fouled by this orange wannabe tinpot dictator and his cadre of goons.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Yup, I totally agree. I don't care if the Dems run on 100% Trumpophobia and turn the Hillary thing on its head- "when they go low, we'll go lower".

I'm sure that will feel good. But it means you will lose. That's playing directly into the hands of the right wing. Mindless tribalism and going low is what their base feeds on. It isn't the liberal base feeds on.

Exposing the Repubilcan corruption is a good idea, but "going lower" in tribal warfare is only going to cut the Democrats down and launch Trump to a 2nd term.

Obama's inclusive and positive campaigns brought him 2 presidential terms. Hillary's negative and divisive campaign lost her an election to Donald Trump of all people. There is something to be learned here.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yup, I totally agree. I don't care if the Dems run on 100% Trumpophobia and turn the Hillary thing on its head- "when they go low, we'll go lower".

I'm sure that will feel good. But it means you will lose. That's playing directly into the hands of the right wing. Mindless tribalism and going low is what their base feeds on. It isn't the liberal base feeds on.

Exposing the Repubilcan corruption is a good idea, but "going lower" in tribal warfare is only going to cut the Democrats down and launch Trump to a 2nd term.

Obama's inclusive and positive campaigns brought him 2 presidential terms. Hillary's negative and divisive campaign lost her an election to Donald Trump of all people. There is something to be learned here.

Jolly, please explain 2010 and Obama’s positiveness.

 

[Patooka]

Obama's inclusive and positive campaigns brought him 2 presidential terms. Hillary's negative and divisive campaign lost her an election to Donald Trump of all people. There is something to be learned here.

Thread starts about outrage fatigue against Trump.

OP moves goalposts to still fucking critique against Clinton with complete lack of self awareness.

In my day, we called that irony.

 

[untermensche]

Obama won by being positive.

It was a bunch of bullshit but it was positive.

Obama would have beaten Trump.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Obama won by being positive.

It was a bunch of bullshit but it was positive.

Obama would have beaten Trump.

Exactly. With Trump around, all we will ever hear from Democrats is negative, and that will just galvanize the Republicans, and they very well may win. It is tribalism plain and simple.

 

[untermensche]

Obama won by being positive.

It was a bunch of bullshit but it was positive.

Obama would have beaten Trump.

Exactly. With Trump around, all we will ever hear from Democrats is negative, and that will just galvanize the Republicans, and they very well may win. It is tribalism plain and simple.

Many Americans are overgrown children.

They have never known a day of real hardship.

They want a nice story and they want to be happy.

Obama was masterful in creating a sense of happiness.

It was absolutely nothing but empty rhetoric, but it was what the children wanted.

Reagan did the same thing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Obama won by being positive.

It was a bunch of bullshit but it was positive.

Obama would have beaten Trump.

Exactly. With Trump around, all we will ever hear from Democrats is negative, and that will just galvanize the Republicans, and they very well may win. It is tribalism plain and simple.

Pal’ing with Putin, North Korea, screwing with our oldest alliances, reckless tariffs. Yeah, just tribalism.

 

[Elixir]

Yup, I totally agree. I don't care if the Dems run on 100% Trumpophobia and turn the Hillary thing on its head- "when they go low, we'll go lower".

I'm sure that will feel good. But it means you will lose.

The Dems will lose if they offer Obama feelgoodism. Those who have sat out in the past need to get out and vote if there is any hope of turning this thing around, and history shows that some 40% of the electorate will stay home if they're not scared off their couches. There is plenty to be scared about, and avoiding scary things in order to offer pie in the sky won't do a thing to get that 40% moving. Make no mistake - there is no "positive vision" that can be credibly offered while a fat orange self-dealing turd occupies the White House. Fiddling while Rome burns isn't going to turn the Senate.

 

[poster]

The Democrats are the best thing that could have happened to Trump. For as long as they keep up the charade of Russiagate and tax issues his base of support will remain fired up. We'll have to wait and see how much of this all plays out in the midterms, but the Republicans don't appear to be worried or see the downside of supporting Trump.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The Democrats are the best thing that could have happened to Trump. For as long as they keep up the charade of Russiagate and tax issues his base of support will remain fired up. We'll have to wait and see how much of this all plays out in the midterms, but the Republicans don't appear to be worried or see the downside of supporting Trump.

It isn’t just Russiagate. How much weird unconventional and non-constructive stuff can he do? How many lies is too many lies? Trump and the GOP inherited a decent economy that they’ve taken complete credit for. They have blown deficits out of the water, while saying Obama put the US $20 trillion in debt. The Trump Admin took “fake news”, a real issue and pivoted it to normal media and the while pivoting proven Russian meddling into a Chinese windmill indicating if the GOP lose, it was the Chinese who were responsible.

There is no lie the Trump supporters won’t swallow from the GOP or Trump and the remainder hold their tongue as the GOP stuffs formally obstructed seats on the Federal benches.

We get *self moderated* out their whining about the Democrats treatment of Kavanaugh while completely and unabashedly ignoring the unprecedented obstruction of Merrick Garland.

And in the end, we hear other *self moderated* out there saying it is all the Democrats fault. The GOP has grabbed the Dems’ arm and is punching them with it and the fence sitters ask aloud, why are the Dems punching themselves.

The GOP attempted to scuttle two Democrat presidencies, with impeachment and unprecedented filibusters and obstruction. And liberals are told they are feeding into the Trump machine when they complain about Trump actually taking Putins wish list of American fuckery to the Principals in Trump’s own White House.

The fence sitters couldn’t be more full of shit.

 

[poster]

There are various factions latching onto the Trump presidency. One of those factions is small business owners who believe they can relate to Trump as a business owner. They look up to him as a model of success, regardless of whether or not that's an accurate portrait of Trump. These are some of his diehard supporters. When these people talk about fake news much of what they are saying is that the news supports and drives narratives which are mostly myths, and, in their minds, the narrative that has been playing out through what they call "big government" is supported by the main media outlets. They want that narrative to change. I personally think they have a valid point, especially since the Trump presidency has revealed not only how the intelligence community tends to abuse its power greatly, but much of the msm appears to be colluding whth the intelligence community heads. Look at how they all end up on television shows after they are out of their intelligence careers. Quid pro quo, anyone? At least Trump's supporter believe it's there.

So Trump and this faction of supporters describe the narrative that they see as being invented and described by intelligence (and perhaps other government-related or supporting entities) and driven by the MSM as "fake news". That so much of this "fake news" is about Trump himself only serve to validate their convictions.

Life is a narrative, and they've figured that out. They are seeking to grab control of the main cultural narrative from those "deep state" enties that now control it.

Quite impressive thinking when one considers it in this context.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm thinking that Democrat turnout will be quite a bit higher than normal for a midterm. After two years of dim-witted fuckery, the Dem leadership is marshalling the big guns to get out the vote.

As to the lack of a positive message, they have Obama hitting the trail, and while he does take some swipes at the Shitgibbon, he also expound a positive program in his recent speech at U of I, and he issues the challenge directly to the students he's addressing:

The antidote to a government controlled by a powerful fear, a government that divides, is a government by the organized, energized, inclusive many. That's what this moment's about. That has to be the answer. You cannot sit back and wait for a savior. You can't opt out because you don't feel sufficiently inspired by this or that particular candidate. This is not a rock concert, this is not Coachella. You don't need a messiah. All we need are decent, honest, hardworking people who are accountable - and who have America's best interests at heart.

And they'll step up and they'll join our government and they will make things better if they have support. One election will not fix everything that needs to be fixed, but it will be a start. And you have to start it. What's going to fix our democracy is you.

People ask me, what are you going to do for the election? No, the question is: What are you going to do?

[...]

In the last midterms election, in, fewer than one in five young people voted. One in five. Not two in five, or three in five. One in five. Is it any wonder this Congress doesn't reflect your values and your priorities? Are you surprised by that?

[...]

So if you don't like what's going on right now -- and you shouldn't -- do not complain. Don't hashtag. Don't get anxious. Don't retreat. Don't binge on whatever it is you're bingeing on. Don't lose yourself in ironic detachment. Don't put your head in the sand. Don't boo. Vote.

Vote.

And if you read through the transcript, you will see plenty of positive policy goals.

 

[Patooka]

I honestly can't think of a time US Republicans have acted in good faith in the last 20 years.

Family values matter until 3-times married porn star fucking philanderer becomes a republican president.
Appointees to the Supreme Court should not happen in an election except when it is our guy.
Any form of legislation must be examined carefully except when we need to abolish Obamacare with a system we have no idea how to implement (we'll just write the amendments down the margin of the page).
We're never going to vote for the nuclear option, that's something only Democrats do (except we are the only ones who went through with it).
We believe in fiscal responsibility unless it involves a tax cut to the rich, then an extra trillion in debt is okay.
We believe the free market will fix any dubious business practices but women are not responsible enough to make decision about their own body.
All media is biased but we have an openly incestuous relationship with the one media outlet that won't hold us accountable to anything.
Republican initiated military actions only spread freedom and democracy around the globe, but Obama is the real warmonger.
Never forget 9/11, but any first responders who suffered long term crippling health problems can go fuck themselves.
Obama was an appeaser, but Trump loving Kim Jong-Un and Putin is just smart diplomacy.
Sarah Palin was a victim of sexism by the left, don't listen to whatever that dyke Clinton has to say.
MoveOn, Anitfa, #resistance, #metoo are all funded by George Soros. The Tea Party was a legitimate home grown grass roots organisation with no astroturfing whatsoever.
Democrats are the real racists, we are the party of Lincoln! #Nazisarefinepeople #Gomuslimban
We care about LBGTQ rights; they're free to stay out of the military like the rest of the other wierdos

I'm genuinely curious; when was the last time a Republican administration has operated in good faith? I can't think of an instance domestically or when they try to interact with the rest of the world. When was the last time a Democrat administration cite policy along the lines of, "Well, it was my predecessor who signed that treaty, so go fuck yourself world"?

 

[poster]

I'm thinking that Democrat turnout will be quite a bit higher than normal for a midterm. After two years of dim-witted fuckery, the Dem leadership is marshalling the big guns to get out the vote.

As to the lack of a positive message, they have Obama hitting the trail, and while he does take some swipes at the Shitgibbon, he also expound a positive program in his recent speech at U of I, and he issues the challenge directly to the students he's addressing:

The antidote to a government controlled by a powerful fear, a government that divides, is a government by the organized, energized, inclusive many. That's what this moment's about. That has to be the answer. You cannot sit back and wait for a savior. You can't opt out because you don't feel sufficiently inspired by this or that particular candidate. This is not a rock concert, this is not Coachella. You don't need a messiah. All we need are decent, honest, hardworking people who are accountable - and who have America's best interests at heart.

And they'll step up and they'll join our government and they will make things better if they have support. One election will not fix everything that needs to be fixed, but it will be a start. And you have to start it. What's going to fix our democracy is you.

People ask me, what are you going to do for the election? No, the question is: What are you going to do?

[...]

In the last midterms election, in, fewer than one in five young people voted. One in five. Not two in five, or three in five. One in five. Is it any wonder this Congress doesn't reflect your values and your priorities? Are you surprised by that?

[...]

So if you don't like what's going on right now -- and you shouldn't -- do not complain. Don't hashtag. Don't get anxious. Don't retreat. Don't binge on whatever it is you're bingeing on. Don't lose yourself in ironic detachment. Don't put your head in the sand. Don't boo. Vote.

Vote.

And if you read through the transcript, you will see plenty of positive policy goals.

From a president whose administration held nobody accountable? Really?