Trump and Outrage Fatigue

[Jolly_Penguin]

Obama won by being positive.

It was a bunch of bullshit but it was positive.

Obama would have beaten Trump.

Exactly. With Trump around, all we will ever hear from Democrats is negative, and that will just galvanize the Republicans, and they very well may win. It is tribalism plain and simple.

Many Americans are overgrown children.

They have never known a day of real hardship.

They want a nice story and they want to be happy.

Obama was masterful in creating a sense of happiness.

It was absolutely nothing but empty rhetoric, but it was what the children wanted.

Reagan did the same thing.

Exactly. Obama was pretty much empty rhetoric, but as you say he is masterful at inspiring people, and bringing people together. Ideally, I wish someone with better policy and who will make them happen would run and be elected, but Obama would easily defeat Trump.

I wish he could run for a third term, or that the Democrats and media would put him front and centre and copy his style. The speech of his quoted above is exactly what I am talking about.

Scare mongering is what gets conservatives voting. But it isn't enough for liberals. Liberals need Inspiration. Trump's constant trolling of the left may have initially pushed people to sufficient outrage against him to beat him in 2017 or 2018, but outrage fatigue is setting in, much of what he does is getting normalized and learned helplessness is sinking in as well.

Pushing division and tribalism about deplorables isn't the way to go. Showing Trump getting nothing constructive done, and showing what the alternative could be is. Reaching out to centrists and giving them an inclusive and positive vision is sorely lacking and it will hurt the Democrats.

I am not saying that the Democrats will lose the midterms or that Trump will win a second term. I am saying that these aren't sure things, Trump is doing better, not worse in popularity, and it could be and should be different. Yes, Democrats, you can.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There are various factions latching onto the Trump presidency. One of those factions is small business owners who believe they can relate to Trump as a business owner. They look up to him as a model of success, regardless of whether or not that's an accurate portrait of Trump. These are some of his diehard supporters. When these people talk about fake news much of what they are saying is that the news supports and drives narratives which are mostly myths, and, in their minds, the narrative that has been playing out through what they call "big government" is supported by the main media outlets. They want that narrative to change. I personally think they have a valid point, especially since the Trump presidency has revealed not only how the intelligence community tends to abuse its power greatly, but much of the msm appears to be colluding whth the intelligence community heads. Look at how they all end up on television shows after they are out of their intelligence careers. Quid pro quo, anyone? At least Trump's supporter believe it's there.

So Trump and this faction of supporters describe the narrative that they see as being invented and described by intelligence (and perhaps other government-related or supporting entities) and driven by the MSM as "fake news". That so much of this "fake news" is about Trump himself only serve to validate their convictions.

Life is a narrative, and they've figured that out. They are seeking to grab control of the main cultural narrative from those "deep state" enties that now control it.

Quite impressive thinking when one considers it in this context.

Yes, and how Chavez and Mussolini and other despots led to Authoritarian government is so interesting too.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

"If you keep getting outraged Trump's gonna win."

"The only way America can change is if we have someone like Trump."

Which is it?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Also is nothing Trump has done morally despicable?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I honestly can't think of a time US Republicans have acted in good faith in the last 20 years.

I can't either. They push shamelessly for their agenda, but they can and do get away with it, because they know how to rile up their volatile fearful and tribal working class base (despite their actual policies harming these people).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Many Americans are overgrown children.

They have never known a day of real hardship.

They want a nice story and they want to be happy.

Obama was masterful in creating a sense of happiness.

It was absolutely nothing but empty rhetoric, but it was what the children wanted.

Reagan did the same thing.

Exactly. Obama was pretty much empty rhetoric, but as you say he is masterful at inspiring people, and bringing people together. Ideally, I wish someone with better policy and who will make them happen would run and be elected, but Obama would easily defeat Trump.

I wish he could run for a third term, or that the Democrats and media would put him front and centre and copy his style. The speech of his quoted above is exactly what I am talking about.

Scare mongering is what gets conservatives voting. But it isn't enough for liberals. Liberals need Inspiration. Trump's constant trolling of the left may have initially pushed people to sufficient outrage against him to beat him in 2017 or 2018, but outrage fatigue is setting in, much of what he does is getting normalized and learned helplessness is sinking in as well.

Pushing division and tribalism about deplorables isn't the way to go. Showing Trump getting nothing constructive done, and showing what the alternative could be is. Reaching out to centrists and giving them an inclusive and positive vision is sorely lacking and it will hurt the Democrats.

I am not saying that the Democrats will lose the midterms or that Trump will win a second term. I am saying that these aren't sure things, Trump is doing better, not worse in popularity, and it could be and should be different. Yes, Democrats, you can.

No, we likely can’t. SCOTUS is unchecked conservative now. The GOP is stuffing obstructed Fed court seats during Obama with radicals ensuring conservative Federal courts. The Dems need a massive landslide in order to just barely gain control of the House due to rampant gerrymandering.

We have lost the country and even Trump kicking the CIA in the crotch right in front of Putin isn’t enough to topple Trump. The Dems’ message is irrelevant.

A guy that threatened partisan revenge in front of the senate... and got confirmed onto The Supreme Court.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

"If you keep getting outraged Trump's gonna win."

It isn't that you shouldn't get outraged, it is if that outrage level can be sustained for 4 years, and if it alone is enough to win the presidency for liberals. I am not confident that it is. You need a positive message to go with it. It can't be just Hillary style "vote for me cuz I'm not him", and it can't be divisive. It needs to be inclusive, uniting and positive, showing what could be.

"The only way America can change is if we have someone like Trump."

That is already changing America. It isn't the only way or the only direction that change could be going.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

No, we likely can’t. SCOTUS is unchecked conservative now. The GOP is stuffing obstructed Fed court seats during Obama with radicals ensuring conservative Federal courts. The Dems need a massive landslide in order to just barely gain control of the House due to rampant gerrymandering.

We have lost the country and even Trump kicking the CIA in the crotch right in front of Putin isn’t enough to topple Trump. The Dems’ message is irrelevant.

A guy that threatened partisan revenge in front of the senate... and got confirmed onto The Supreme Court.

That attitude won't generate that landslide that you say you need. It will only generate learned helplessness and low voter turnout. It is a recipe for Trump's second term.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

It can't be divisive? Everything Trump has done has been divisive.

 

[Elixir]

No, we likely can’t. SCOTUS is unchecked conservative now. The GOP is stuffing obstructed Fed court seats during Obama with radicals ensuring conservative Federal courts. The Dems need a massive landslide in order to just barely gain control of the House due to rampant gerrymandering.

We have lost the country and even Trump kicking the CIA in the crotch right in front of Putin isn’t enough to topple Trump. The Dems’ message is irrelevant.

A guy that threatened partisan revenge in front of the senate... and got confirmed onto The Supreme Court.

That attitude won't generate that landslide that you say you need. It will only generate learned helplessness and low voter turnout. It is a recipe for Trump's second term.

Yeah -- you angry democrats need to settle down, go back to your communes and sing Kumbaya. Because that has worked so well in the past...

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It can't be divisive? Everything Trump has done has been divisive.

Exactly. Imagine the contrast if Democrats pushed a positive Obama-like message. He would win in a landslide.

 

[untermensche]

There are various factions latching onto the Trump presidency. One of those factions is small business owners who believe they can relate to Trump as a business owner. They look up to him as a model of success, regardless of whether or not that's an accurate portrait of Trump. These are some of his diehard supporters. When these people talk about fake news much of what they are saying is that the news supports and drives narratives which are mostly myths, and, in their minds, the narrative that has been playing out through what they call "big government" is supported by the main media outlets. They want that narrative to change. I personally think they have a valid point, especially since the Trump presidency has revealed not only how the intelligence community tends to abuse its power greatly, but much of the msm appears to be colluding whth the intelligence community heads. Look at how they all end up on television shows after they are out of their intelligence careers. Quid pro quo, anyone? At least Trump's supporter believe it's there.

So Trump and this faction of supporters describe the narrative that they see as being invented and described by intelligence (and perhaps other government-related or supporting entities) and driven by the MSM as "fake news". That so much of this "fake news" is about Trump himself only serve to validate their convictions.

Life is a narrative, and they've figured that out. They are seeking to grab control of the main cultural narrative from those "deep state" enties that now control it.

Quite impressive thinking when one considers it in this context.

Yes, and how Chavez and Mussolini and other despots led to Authoritarian government is so interesting too.

Chavez was democratically elected.

Again and again.

He was no despot.

That is stupidity.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

There are various factions latching onto the Trump presidency. One of those factions is small business owners who believe they can relate to Trump as a business owner. They look up to him as a model of success, regardless of whether or not that's an accurate portrait of Trump. These are some of his diehard supporters. When these people talk about fake news much of what they are saying is that the news supports and drives narratives which are mostly myths, and, in their minds, the narrative that has been playing out through what they call "big government" is supported by the main media outlets. They want that narrative to change. I personally think they have a valid point, especially since the Trump presidency has revealed not only how the intelligence community tends to abuse its power greatly, but much of the msm appears to be colluding whth the intelligence community heads. Look at how they all end up on television shows after they are out of their intelligence careers. Quid pro quo, anyone? At least Trump's supporter believe it's there.

So Trump and this faction of supporters describe the narrative that they see as being invented and described by intelligence (and perhaps other government-related or supporting entities) and driven by the MSM as "fake news". That so much of this "fake news" is about Trump himself only serve to validate their convictions.

Life is a narrative, and they've figured that out. They are seeking to grab control of the main cultural narrative from those "deep state" enties that now control it.

Quite impressive thinking when one considers it in this context.

Yes, and how Chavez and Mussolini and other despots led to Authoritarian government is so interesting too.

Chavez was democratically elected.

Again and again.

He was no despot.

That is stupidity.

You can be elected and still act as a despot.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm thinking that Democrat turnout will be quite a bit higher than normal for a midterm. After two years of dim-witted fuckery, the Dem leadership is marshalling the big guns to get out the vote.

As to the lack of a positive message, they have Obama hitting the trail, and while he does take some swipes at the Shitgibbon, he also expound a positive program in his recent speech at U of I, and he issues the challenge directly to the students he's addressing:

The antidote to a government controlled by a powerful fear, a government that divides, is a government by the organized, energized, inclusive many. That's what this moment's about. That has to be the answer. You cannot sit back and wait for a savior. You can't opt out because you don't feel sufficiently inspired by this or that particular candidate. This is not a rock concert, this is not Coachella. You don't need a messiah. All we need are decent, honest, hardworking people who are accountable - and who have America's best interests at heart.

And they'll step up and they'll join our government and they will make things better if they have support. One election will not fix everything that needs to be fixed, but it will be a start. And you have to start it. What's going to fix our democracy is you.

People ask me, what are you going to do for the election? No, the question is: What are you going to do?

[...]

In the last midterms election, in, fewer than one in five young people voted. One in five. Not two in five, or three in five. One in five. Is it any wonder this Congress doesn't reflect your values and your priorities? Are you surprised by that?

[...]

So if you don't like what's going on right now -- and you shouldn't -- do not complain. Don't hashtag. Don't get anxious. Don't retreat. Don't binge on whatever it is you're bingeing on. Don't lose yourself in ironic detachment. Don't put your head in the sand. Don't boo. Vote.

Vote.

And if you read through the transcript, you will see plenty of positive policy goals.

From a president whose administration held nobody accountable? Really?

I'm sorry, how many investigations were mounted that turned up actionable behavior?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There are various factions latching onto the Trump presidency. One of those factions is small business owners who believe they can relate to Trump as a business owner. They look up to him as a model of success, regardless of whether or not that's an accurate portrait of Trump. These are some of his diehard supporters. When these people talk about fake news much of what they are saying is that the news supports and drives narratives which are mostly myths, and, in their minds, the narrative that has been playing out through what they call "big government" is supported by the main media outlets. They want that narrative to change. I personally think they have a valid point, especially since the Trump presidency has revealed not only how the intelligence community tends to abuse its power greatly, but much of the msm appears to be colluding whth the intelligence community heads. Look at how they all end up on television shows after they are out of their intelligence careers. Quid pro quo, anyone? At least Trump's supporter believe it's there.

So Trump and this faction of supporters describe the narrative that they see as being invented and described by intelligence (and perhaps other government-related or supporting entities) and driven by the MSM as "fake news". That so much of this "fake news" is about Trump himself only serve to validate their convictions.

Life is a narrative, and they've figured that out. They are seeking to grab control of the main cultural narrative from those "deep state" enties that now control it.

Quite impressive thinking when one considers it in this context.

Yes, and how Chavez and Mussolini and other despots led to Authoritarian government is so interesting too.

Chavez was democratically elected.

Again and again.

He was no despot.

That is stupidity.

So was Hitler. Wasn’t Mugabe elected as well? It isn’t unusual to see despot be elected.

 

[poster]

From a president whose administration held nobody accountable? Really?

I'm sorry, how many investigations were mounted that turned up actionable behavior?

Does the mantra "we're looking forward, not backward" ring any bells?

 

[untermensche]

Chavez was democratically elected.

Again and again.

He was no despot.

That is stupidity.

So was Hitler. Wasn’t Mugabe elected as well? It isn’t unusual to see despot be elected.

Hitler was never elected to be supreme leader of Germany.

He held an elected office early then became a despotic dictator later.

Chavez was never a despotic leader.

He was an elected leader, elected over and over, that worked within a Constitution.

 

[Elixir]

Chavez was democratically elected.

Again and again.

He was no despot.

That is stupidity.

You can be elected and still act as a despot.

Really! Have we learned nothing from Trump?

 

[untermensche]

To some capitalists a despot is somebody who stops you from raping the poor.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To some capitalists a despot is somebody who stops you from raping the poor.

I love nothing more than when an alleged socialist tries to use the evil capitalist logo against a user with the name Jimmy Higgins. It betrays quite a bit of ignorance.