Trump and the GOP (and their voters) are racists... It is time to move on.

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, with the GOP making with a press conference saying we need to tune down the political rhetoric, and blasting the Democrats, saying: "We’ve heard facilities on the U.S. border called concentration camps, we’ve seen the far-left throw accusations of racism at everyone. Anyone who disagrees with them on anything, including the speaker of the house"

To be blunt, it doesn't matter any more. The GOP has drawn the line at what they won't tolerate. And when I say draw the line... they announced there is no line. So the Democrats need to drop it and head back to dealing with issues that'll get the White House and hopefully Senate back under the right-leaning Democrat Party's control as soon as possible. Running on civility will not win in 2020, that is where our country is at now. So we need to recognize it and move forward (don't forget, but understand it isn't going to help). All that matters now is getting the apathetic and unprofessional GOP out of as many offices as possible.

That'll be accomplished through health care, dealing with the cost of education, and other issues Americans deal with on a daily basis.

 

[southernhybrid]

I honestly don't know the best way forward, considering that I've never seen anything like what's happening now. The Republicans are planning to be very harsh as a way to win back the House and keep the presidency. Not sure how that will help them, but this is the most openly insane thing I've ever seen in politics.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/us/politics/donald-trump-republicans.html

The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee is portrayed as wearing clown makeup. Democratic congressional candidates — including an Air Force combat veteran — are labeled “socialist losers” or anti-Semites. Others have been singled out as Lyin’ Lucy McBath, Fake Nurse Lauren Underwood, Little Max Rose and China Dan McCready.

The National Republican Congressional Committee, with the blessing of House Republican leaders, has adopted a no-holds-barred strategy to win back the House majority next year, borrowing heavily from President Trump’s playbook in deploying such taunts and name-calling. After losing 40 seats and the House majority in November, Representative Tom Emmer of Minnesota, the committee’s new chairman, and Representative Kevin McCarthy of California, the Republican leader, decided that their messaging needed to be ruthless.

The offensive hinges largely on the relatively facile notion that by tagging all House Democrats as socialists, anti-Semites or far-left extremists, Republicans will be able to alienate swing-state voters. On Tuesday night, after the House voted to condemn as racist President Trump’s attacks on four congresswoman, the campaign arm’s communications team deluged reporters’ inboxes with message after message calling vulnerable Democratic lawmakers “deranged.”

Republican campaign operatives backing the strategy argued that aggressive tactics were necessary to rouse the interests of sleepy and shrunken local press corps. Adopting the mantra that “all news is good news,” the committee appears to believe that even if reporters choose instead to write about its bare-knuckled tactics, they are at least reiterating the nicknames and points that House Republicans hope will reach voters.

“If that’s what it takes to get a story,” said Mike Shields, who joined the National Republican Congressional Committee as director of its independent expenditure program in 2009 and helped Republicans win a 63-seat gain. “There needs to be a shift in mind-set to be in the majority. It’s better than getting no coverage at all.”

Now, if you can't access the entire article, it does mention that some Republicans aren't happy about using insults as a way to win, so they aren't all marching lockstep on this. But, here's my question for you and other Democrats. Do we just ignore these horrible attacks or do we fight back? Is it best to simply concentrate on policy ideas, or will that give the Republicans more attention and more impetus to fight back. Is the country tired of this method? Should we follow the advice of Michele Obama, "when they go low, we go high", or is that now a losing proposition? I honestly don't know anymore. It's as if I'm living in some dystopian place where we no longer treat people who disagree with us respectfully. I see it in the comment section of newspapers. I see it here sometimes.

If we ignore these awful people, does that make us look weak, or does that make us look like better?

For fuck sakes, the Democrats are even attacking each other! Shouldn't they try and be more respectful and just lay out the reasons why their policy propositions are the best, instead of attacking each other? Shouldn't the Democrats in Congress stop tweeting and keep their juvenile disagreements behind closed doors? It's almost as if Trump has infected everyone with his brash, disgusting behavior. I don't know what the best way forward is anymore.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Now, if you can't access the entire article, it does mention that some Republicans aren't happy about using insults as a way to win, so they aren't all marching lockstep on this.

Not lockstep, but not exactly leaving the party either.

But, here's my question for you and other Democrats. Do we just ignore these horrible attacks or do we fight back? Is it best to simply concentrate on policy ideas, or will that give the Republicans more attention and more impetus to fight back.

You can't out troll a troll. This racist bullshit is acceptable to some people, and we aren't going to change their mind. So we need to concentrate on issues to change the mind of independents and keep to turnout of the base. Independents will otherwise see it as bickering.

Is the country tired of this method? Should we follow the advice of Michele Obama, "when they go low, we go high", or is that now a losing proposition? I honestly don't know anymore. It's as if I'm living in some dystopian place where we no longer treat people who disagree with us respectfully. I see it in the comment section of newspapers. I see it here sometimes.

The Dems concentrated on health care, not Trump specifically, in 2018 and rolled over the GOP.

If we ignore these awful people, does that make us look weak, or does that make us look like better?

This does bring a couple questions, what do you fight. I think you need to choose your battles. When they brand you a socialist and blah blah freedom, you don't fall in their trap to talk about socialism. You talk about how ensuring all people have health care is not infringing on people's freedom, it is an expansion of it. etc...

We won't win a Twitter fight or debate regarding definitions of socialism. Rather we can win debates by convincing Americans that having health care is in everyone's interests.

For fuck sakes, the Democrats are even attacking each other! Shouldn't they try and be more respectful and just lay out the reasons why their policy propositions are the best, instead of attacking each other? Shouldn't the Democrats in Congress stop tweeting and keep their juvenile disagreements behind closed doors? It's almost as if Trump has infected everyone with his brash, disgusting behavior. I don't know what the best way forward is anymore.

Yes, Twitter isn't helping. And Trump might be changing things forever. Or we can stick with issues, make Trump a one-term President and 20-yr convict.

 

[Sarpedon]

It would be insane if it hadn't been shown to work on one occasion.

Let us make that occasion a fluke, so this can go back to being insane.

 

[Politesse]

The problem with focusing on issues rather than rhetorical games, is that "we" as a party don't agree on the issues that should be emphasized. The main party is hardly going to accept the idea of focusing on a genuinely socialist platform, for instance; vague civility and maintenance of the status quo is their position, and it has never made for an especially compelling public impression, especially when "they" are not afraid to "go low" in defense of what they believe in. The Democrats call up cardboard cutouts blandly asserting that we should all just sort of respect each other and calm down, and it's like bringing a Hufflepuff to a Gryffindor fight.

If you already have a strong affiliation with a party, none of this matters, but if you're an independent or undecided voter, public image counts for more than it should.

What I'm saying is, Trump is probably going to win. What I'm not so sure about is whether his Republican cronies will be able to ride that to the top with him. In many respects, they have the same problem as the Democrats. When they aren't playing these games, they are both boring and, worse, transparently self-interested in promoting the financial interests of the very elite class who are the secondary target of their figurehead's rhetorical ire. Devoted Trumpsters might not notice, but the overlooked middle must be wondering why only their bosses have been getting raises since the great hero of the working-class hero took the White House.

 

[TV and credit cards]

We should have been focused on the silent GOP. Calling them out for their tacit approval of Trump's atrocities, weakening them in the minds of voters. It would have pissed Trump off to no end not to be the focus of attention. Alas, the liberal media had to follow the money. So it's all Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump. Look, his approval rating went up among Republicans after his latest and greatest racist tweets. Is there anything he can do, any more offense he can commit to swing any portion of voters? The spotlight should be on the senators. I'm fairly confident we'll maintain the House.

If the dems focus too much on policy they will put people to sleep. It should be a response only to accusations of socialism, broadly outlined, and bordering on realistic. Perhaps it's just me but whenever I hear a candidate's hopeful and enthusiastic positions for our country going forward, it all sound like stuff they would be hard-pressed to pass even with supermajorties.

We need "the squad" getting younger voters energized. I think it's a forgone conclusion the rest of us are voting. Even the Bernie Bros won't sit this one out.

Lastly, I'd really like to see Kamala Harris debate Trump. Watching her during hearings, I think she would rip Trump a new asshole.

 

[Politesse]

Lastly, I'd really like to see Kamala Harris debate Trump. Watching her during hearings, I think she would rip Trump a new asshole.

Unfortunately, middle class white American men hate nothing more than seeing a powerful man get publically humiliated by a capable female professional...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The problem with focusing on issues rather than rhetorical games, is that "we" as a party don't agree on the issues that should be emphasized. The main party is hardly going to accept the idea of focusing on a genuinely socialist platform...

We aren't looking at a socialist platform. Health care, minimum wage is kiddie park stuff. Actual socialism involves ownership of production. That isn't being proposed by anyone!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I do agree, Kamala Harris has been wickedly astute. Being an Attorney General helped her become good at asking pointed questions.

We should have been focused on the silent GOP. Calling them out for their tacit approval of Trump's atrocities, weakening them in the minds of voters. It would have pissed Trump off to no end not to be the focus of attention. Alas, the liberal media had to follow the money. So it's all Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump. Look, his approval rating went up among Republicans after his latest and greatest racist tweets. Is there anything he can do, any more offense he can commit to swing any portion of voters? The spotlight should be on the senators. I'm fairly confident we'll maintain the House.

The theory was, Trump broke the law badly enough... the GOP would kick him out to avoid the damage. Turns out the GOP has gone so hyper-partisan, they don't actually care about anything but single party rule at this point.

If the dems focus too much on policy they will put people to sleep.

Please, let me make this abundantly clear, as we already saw how well this worked in '18. People aren't unemployed because of Trump and what he has said. People aren't having health care access problems because Trump is aligned with dictators. The troubles real people are dealing with are not directly linkable to Trump's racist attitudes or his campaign's alliance with Russia or Trump's abysmal foreign policy decisions (some of which we can't walk back)... though if we fuck this up... they could start causing long-term problems.

So we need to focus on the ills Americans are actually suffering from and addressing them.

 

[Politesse]

The problem with focusing on issues rather than rhetorical games, is that "we" as a party don't agree on the issues that should be emphasized. The main party is hardly going to accept the idea of focusing on a genuinely socialist platform...

We aren't looking at a socialist platform. Health care, minimum wage is kiddie park stuff. Actual socialism involves ownership of production. That isn't being proposed by anyone!

Well, yeah. But that's the real problem. It's easy to criticize the racist, elitist, corporation-hugging, planet-destroying aspects of the Teapublican platform. What Democrats fail to do is make a compelling case for how they are actually different. What they usually do is basically go "hey we're AN alternative, therefore you owe us a vote". That's fine for their base, but why is the undecided middle going to care whether they get screwed by one group of rich assholes or another group of rich assholes?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The problem with focusing on issues rather than rhetorical games, is that "we" as a party don't agree on the issues that should be emphasized. The main party is hardly going to accept the idea of focusing on a genuinely socialist platform...

We aren't looking at a socialist platform. Health care, minimum wage is kiddie park stuff. Actual socialism involves ownership of production. That isn't being proposed by anyone!

Well, yeah. But that's the real problem. It's easy to criticize the racist, elitist, corporation-hugging, planet-destroying aspects of the Teapublican platform. What Democrats fail to do is make a compelling case for how they are actually different.

The 2018 mid-terms and the fact the Democrat has won the popular vote in every, but one, Presidential election since 1992, indicates otherwise.

What they usually do is basically go "hey we're AN alternative, therefore you owe us a vote". That's fine for their base, but why is the undecided middle going to care whether they get screwed by one group of rich assholes or another group of rich assholes?

The GOP isn't the party of tax cuts anymore.

 

[funinspace]

Yep the 2018 was ample evidence that Don the Con's Teflon-shit coating has some serious cracks.

The 3 states that gave FFvC the tiny margin to win, have given a clear indication that the Democratic leaning states have returned home:
https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsin-michigan-pennsylvania-ohio-midterms-trump-democrats/

o Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania were kind of a big deal on November 8, 2016. And, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania were also kind of a big deal on November 6, 2018. The three states had Senate races in which prominent conservatives were challenging supposedly vulnerable Democratic incumbents. The three states also had gubernatorial contests. That’s six major races in the three states that gave Trump the presidency.

Democrats won all of them. Three Democratic senators—Wisconsin’s Tammy Baldwin, Michigan’s Debbie Stabenow, and Pennsylvania’s Robert Casey—all won with ease. Three Democratic gubernatorial candidates—Tony Evers in Wisconsin, Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan, and Tom Wolf in Pennsylvania—were also winners.

Personally, I think the Dotard is going to have rough sailing towards any possible win in 2020. Sure the Trumpeteres are excited and angry and luv his show. But those that threw the dice his way, are not seeing prescription drug prices being fixed (its rising bigly), they are not seeing the opioid crisis solved, health care has not been made great again, coal is not great again, et.al. There are at least a few old fashioned Republicans that are disgusted by his behavior in office. And he has maintain record low approval ratings while in office while in a reasonably good economy. And, if we see obvious recession signs before the November election, he will be crushed.

I also wonder just how well rolling out the commie/socialist boogieman will work some 30 years after the collapse of the USSR. We have a whole generation now out there that grew up after the USSR's collapse.

 

[Politesse]

Well, yeah. But that's the real problem. It's easy to criticize the racist, elitist, corporation-hugging, planet-destroying aspects of the Teapublican platform. What Democrats fail to do is make a compelling case for how they are actually different.

The 2018 mid-terms and the fact the Democrat has won the popular vote in every, but one, Presidential election since 1992, indicates otherwise.

What they usually do is basically go "hey we're AN alternative, therefore you owe us a vote". That's fine for their base, but why is the undecided middle going to care whether they get screwed by one group of rich assholes or another group of rich assholes?

The GOP isn't the party of tax cuts anymore.

It hasn't done anything to prevent one-party rule of all three branches of government, and for-profit internment camps on American soil. Just how low is your bar for "we're doing great!"

 

[EvoUK]

Yep the 2018 was ample evidence that Don the Con's Teflon-shit coating has some serious cracks.

The 3 states that gave FFvC the tiny margin to win, have given a clear indication that the Democratic leaning states have returned home:
https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsin-michigan-pennsylvania-ohio-midterms-trump-democrats/

o Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania were kind of a big deal on November 8, 2016. And, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania were also kind of a big deal on November 6, 2018. The three states had Senate races in which prominent conservatives were challenging supposedly vulnerable Democratic incumbents. The three states also had gubernatorial contests. That’s six major races in the three states that gave Trump the presidency.

Democrats won all of them. Three Democratic senators—Wisconsin’s Tammy Baldwin, Michigan’s Debbie Stabenow, and Pennsylvania’s Robert Casey—all won with ease. Three Democratic gubernatorial candidates—Tony Evers in Wisconsin, Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan, and Tom Wolf in Pennsylvania—were also winners.

Personally, I think the Dotard is going to have rough sailing towards any possible win in 2020. Sure the Trumpeteres are excited and angry and luv his show. But those that threw the dice his way, are not seeing prescription drug prices being fixed (its rising bigly), they are not seeing the opioid crisis solved, health care has not been made great again, coal is not great again, et.al. There are at least a few old fashioned Republicans that are disgusted by his behavior in office. And he has maintain record low approval ratings while in office while in a reasonably good economy. And, if we see obvious recession signs before the November election, he will be crushed.

I also wonder just how well rolling out the commie/socialist boogieman will work some 30 years after the collapse of the USSR. We have a whole generation now out there that grew up after the USSR's collapse.

But they have seen 2 SCOTUS seats go conservative, and with Ginsburg looking worse for wear there's the possibility of a 3rd. Plus the packing of the lower courts with conservative judges - republicans always seem better able to hold their nose and vote for this sort of stuff, so in many cases Trump is doing exactly what they want. They can then say 'I wish he wouldn't act like an ass and stop tweeting, but at least we got the SCOTUS seats from the liberals'.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The 2018 mid-terms and the fact the Democrat has won the popular vote in every, but one, Presidential election since 1992, indicates otherwise.
The GOP isn't the party of tax cuts anymore.

It hasn't done anything to prevent one-party rule of all three branches of government, and for-profit internment camps on American soil. Just how low is your bar for "we're doing great!"

Who said we are doing great? I'm saying that in order to get Trump out, we need to look at issues, not have a bunch of idiots say the Dems are just as bad as the Republicans. There is clearly a difference!

 

[crazyfingers]

Trump and his followers are simply putrid, ugly people.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/politics/donald-trump-race-america-democrats/index.html

Washington (CNN)In a moment of unrestrained demagoguery, President Donald Trump presided Wednesday over a crowd chanting "Send her back! Send her back!" about an American Muslim congresswoman who he targeted with racist attacks.

...

The chants of "Send her back!" referred to Somalia-born, American citizen Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, one of four minority lawmakers attacked by Trump over the weekend. The invective from the crowd replaced the "Lock her up!" and "Build the wall!" chants of Trump's first campaign with a jarring racial refrain that the commander-in-chief, speaking from behind a podium bearing the symbolic presidential seal, made no effort to stop.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Lastly, I'd really like to see Kamala Harris debate Trump. Watching her during hearings, I think she would rip Trump a new asshole.

Unfortunately, middle class white American men hate nothing more than seeing a powerful man get publically humiliated by a capable female professional...

Perhaps. But they can’t call it fake news. It may be the one last vestige where we are all witnessing the same political truth. It has to be accepted for what it is.

I do hope the democrats take this in all seriousness. What I see is a desperate Republican Party and that should not be taken lightly. They lost the popular vote in ‘16, got shellacked ‘18 and they are acting like they stand a chance. Not in a fair fight they don’t.
The dirtiest of deeds are coming.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Obama already showed the way. You need a POSITIVE message. You need to push hope and change. Hillary already tried "I'm not him" and it failed. Fear mongering works much better on conservatives than on liberals. For liberals to get motivated you need to push for meaningful change. FDR level. Bernie level. Republicans also have the upper hand with the mudslinging. For Democrats to win you need to rise above that. Obama showed the way for that too. You need to win the middle over, not antagonize it by calling everybody who disagrees with you a Nazi. And you also need to NOT fall into identity politics culture wars, but instead speak towards universal benefit for all. Obama showed that too. Warren with her silly native american angle and now Kamala Harris pushing the race angle is only going to backfire on them. Let others play those cards for you if they are to be played. You need to rise above it and come across as the adult in the room and the leader pushing for hope, change, and actually making your country great again.

 

[TV and credit cards]

If the dems focus too much on policy they will put people to sleep.

Please, let me make this abundantly clear, as we already saw how well this worked in '18. People aren't unemployed because of Trump and what he has said. People aren't having health care access problems because Trump is aligned with dictators. The troubles real people are dealing with are not directly linkable to Trump's racist attitudes or his campaign's alliance with Russia or Trump's abysmal foreign policy decisions (some of which we can't walk back)... though if we fuck this up... they could start causing long-term problems.

So we need to focus on the ills Americans are actually suffering from and addressing them.

Very true. But have you listened to Buttigieg talk policy? Dems can’t go this route. They have to keep it short and sweet to maintain people’s attention.
Trump is going to be Karn Evil 9 out there. It’s what he does.

Republicans will take the most innocuous of comments and paint the entire Democratic Party with it and so often it sticks. Meanwhile the dems are largely acting like a bunch of kittens.
I say let Kamala pounce. She can address people’s ills and take care of the dotard at the same time.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Obama already showed the way.

Obama faced a transitioning GOP, not this authoritarian GOP that has a guy out there riling crowds to the point of riots.

You need a POSITIVE message. You need to push hope and change. Hillary already tried "I'm not him" and it failed.

I really wish it was that simple. Hillary Clinton didn't lose Ohio by 8 pts because she didn't run a "Positive message". Clinton ran the right campaign. It would have worked in any other election cycle. Trump, Brexit, the fascists movements in Europe... Clinton's campaign can't be blamed for all of it.