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Trump and the GOP (and their voters) are racists... It is time to move on.

And Bernie is the only one trying to tap into that

Horsehit. Every single candidate that has ever run tries to tap into that. What Bernie discovered (just like countless losers before him who also tried to tap into the idealism vote) is that the overwhelming majority of voters are NOT idealists. They are realists, at best; centrists that want primarily a fiscal responsibility with a social safety net.

The proof is in the fact that in spite of all of the noise about a "revolution" the best--the very best--Sanders could muster (in spite of outspending Clinton, no less) was about 5% of Democrats actually bothering to vote for him.

And what did he do in response? HE WENT FURTHER RIGHT. He started pushing the Democrats to get rid of abortion from the platform and pushing an agenda toward non-college graduate rural white males, thereby immediately alienating two primary sections of our base (women and minorities).

That's been his m.o. ever since he failed numerous times to win in Vermont; move to the right.

He promises magical ponies out one side of his mouth, but then out the other he fully and openly concedes he can't possibly deliver them.

So you are making a religious vote, not a political one. You as much as concede it by saying things like "Bernie is the only one trying to tap into that" idealism of a world where we all rise up together.

The majority political "pulse" of America has pretty much always been left leaning--i.e., fiscally conservative, but socially progressive--and yet look how many right-wingers we have. Those "spoilers" you ignore or think can be so easily overcome by faith alone are there because faith alone does not work.

It's election amnesia. That or you're just too young to remember Ross Perot or Ralph Nader or who ran on the exact same idealism strategy and likewise failed. Every single election in recent history has had a candidate (or candidates) who you don't know and don't remember running on the idealism strategy and with similar results. Less than 5%.

When 95% ignore you, that's when you leave the stage, not just stick around and continue to throw monkey wrenches everywhere and then claim the machines were rigged to explode upon contact with an innocent little wrench.
 
Just the most beautiful page display, a work of art that I never tire of looking at

blessed.JPG
 
We should have been focused on the silent GOP. Calling them out for their tacit approval of Trump's atrocities, weakening them in the minds of voters. It would have pissed Trump off to no end not to be the focus of attention. Alas, the liberal media had to follow the money. So it's all Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump. Look, his approval rating went up among Republicans after his latest and greatest racist tweets. Is there anything he can do, any more offense he can commit to swing any portion of voters? The spotlight should be on the senators. I'm fairly confident we'll maintain the House.

If the dems focus too much on policy they will put people to sleep. It should be a response only to accusations of socialism, broadly outlined, and bordering on realistic. Perhaps it's just me but whenever I hear a candidate's hopeful and enthusiastic positions for our country going forward, it all sound like stuff they would be hard-pressed to pass even with supermajorties.

We need "the squad" getting younger voters energized. I think it's a forgone conclusion the rest of us are voting. Even the Bernie Bros won't sit this one out.

Lastly, I'd really like to see Kamala Harris debate Trump. Watching her during hearings, I think she would rip Trump a new asshole.

Ronald Reagan - 'Africans are Monkeys'

He said: "To see those... monkeys from those African countries - damn them, they're still uncomfortable wearing shoes!"

No real surprise here. I suppose that decent people can only hope that there are enough decent people left in the GOP to get Don-the-racist-Con out of office in 2020. But I'm not holding my breath.
 
No need to hold your breath. He doesn't have the numbers and didn't win the first time around. Other than extensive ongoing efforts from the Russians, there is no way lightning will strike in the same place twice.
 
No need to hold your breath. He doesn't have the numbers and didn't win the first time around. Other than extensive ongoing efforts from the Russians, there is no way lightning will strike in the same place twice.
Trump's election was lightning striking twice... Brexit was the first strike. I have no confidence that America can't make the same awful mistake twice. His path to re-election is possibly harder, but maybe easier, because Trump has effectively eliminated the importance of truth.

Trump built the wall (he didn't)
Trump brought jobs back to America (he didn't)
Trump saved the American economy (he didn't)
No obstruction, no collusion!!! (not true)
The Democrats are radicalists!!! (not true)

With the death of truth, getting elected in 2020 becomes a bit easier, especially with all of the online trolls from offshore, and the domestic trolls that seem to think it is more important to piss off liberals, than to elect a competent person into the White House.
 
No need to hold your breath. He doesn't have the numbers and didn't win the first time around. Other than extensive ongoing efforts from the Russians, there is no way lightning will strike in the same place twice.
Trump's election was lightning striking twice... Brexit was the first strike.

And both were driven by clandestine data warfare that we now at least know about, which means it's no longer clandestine.

I have no confidence that America can't make the same awful mistake twice.

Well, again, it didn't. Why people can't seem to parse the fact that what happened was, at best, a fluke of epic proportions is a little frustrating to say the least.

There were SO many unique factors that conspired together absolutely NONE of which had anything to do with the actual candidates and everything to do with how particular voters in particular counties were massively bombarded by a constant stream of clandestine propaganda and then the effect was extremely small, but due to our outdated method of calculating votes, it flipped a switch.

Those unique factors no longer exist, of course. The warfare does--and has been ongoing--but again, once something clandestine is revealed, then it forever alters its effectiveness and when you're talking about something that is only marginally effective to begin with, then the odds favor it never having the same impact.

I obviously could be wrong on that, but if there were to be yet another anomalous event--especially after Brexit and Trump '16--then there simply won't be any way to hide it and we'd have no choice but to blow up the whole thing and start from scratch.

Three time's a charm and all that.

His path to re-election is possibly harder

It is unquestionably harder. He simply does not have the numbers. I don't mean that in a "maybe some will change," I mean that in a very literal there simply are not that many Republican voters period. He would need something on the order of ten million to fifteen million Democrats to flip in order for him to win.

Something along those lines (I did the calc in another thread somewhere). While the Russian/Cambridge Analytica warfare was effective, it's not THAT effective. In another other thread, the effectiveness is on the order of what we saw in the three states, so while it worked then, it can't work the same way again precisely because we know it exists, which, again, decreases its effectiveness.

When you're talking about something that is already at around .06% effective--but only when it's clandestine--then you're talking about reducing its effectiveness exponentially once it's known to exist.

but maybe easier, because Trump has effectively eliminated the importance of truth.

For his base, who never had it to begin with. Not for any of us.

With the death of truth, getting elected in 2020 becomes a bit easier

Again, the "death of truth" only happened to his base, which represent about 10% of ALL Americans at the very best. Remember, there is a core base and then there are several rings out from that core, but even to the outer most rings of Republican voters, they still only represent about 23% of ALL American voters.

What helped him considerably--beside the effect of the clandestine warfare--were the swing Independents, but that swing went decidedly back left in 2018 and there is every indication they have not swung back.

2016 certainly taught us what we already know; that nothing in politics is a lock. But when you're talking about surmounting something on the order of ten to fifteen million SWING voters that hate you and the majority already swung back if they ever swung your way initially, it's a pretty safe bet.

The question isn't about the voters; the question is about the strategy and how the ongoing information warfare is targeted. THAT is what the media should be focused on. Instead they just keep repeating that it is ongoing, but no one that I can find anyway is doing any in depth reporting on exactly how and where and the extent, etc.

ETA: Here's a decent article from Politico: The GOP’s Challenge in 2020? Don’t Make It About Trump that tackles this very issue. I believe it goes much deeper, but six of one...

And here is a helpful piece from PEW: 6 facts about U.S. political independents.
 
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No need to hold your breath. He doesn't have the numbers and didn't win the first time around. Other than extensive ongoing efforts from the Russians, there is no way lightning will strike in the same place twice.
Trump's election was lightning striking twice... Brexit was the first strike. I have no confidence that America can't make the same awful mistake twice. His path to re-election is possibly harder, but maybe easier, because Trump has effectively eliminated the importance of truth.

Trump built the wall (he didn't)
Trump brought jobs back to America (he didn't)
Trump saved the American economy (he didn't)
No obstruction, no collusion!!! (not true)
The Democrats are radicalists!!! (not true)

With the death of truth, getting elected in 2020 becomes a bit easier, especially with all of the online trolls from offshore, and the domestic trolls that seem to think it is more important to piss off liberals, than to elect a competent person into the White House.

Very true. If the left and some foreign adversary conspired to tell everyone about how Trump is selling young girls apprehended at the southern border into sex slavery through a pizza shop in Palm Beach, the response would be "so what?".
It's almost hard to believe that there was a time when such a fabrication would be cause for outrage. And if it wasn't a fabrication, there would have at least been outrage about selling young girls apprehended at the southern border into sex slavery. Now, neither would generate anything but yawns.
Good job, Cheato.
 
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And both were driven by clandestine data warfare that we now at least know about, which means it's no longer clandestine.
And the GOP and their backers don't care either. Heck, we have a poster here that people continue to take seriously, despite being a troll. Social Media is too easy to abuse and there is nothing to stop that abuse. The US is going to get trolled again, and no one will stop it.

I have no confidence that America can't make the same awful mistake twice.
Well, again, it didn't. Why people can't seem to parse the fact that what happened was, at best, a fluke of epic proportions is a little frustrating to say the least.
Yes, Clinton won the popular vote nationally, but Trump won the popular vote in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, Ohio, and North Carolina. And those individual contests are why we are enduring his Presidency at the moment.

There were SO many unique factors that conspired together absolutely NONE of which had anything to do with the actual candidates and everything to do with how particular voters in particular counties were massively bombarded by a constant stream of clandestine propaganda and then the effect was extremely small, but due to our outdated method of calculating votes, it flipped a switch.

Those unique factors no longer exist, of course. The warfare does--and has been ongoing--but again, once something clandestine is revealed, then it forever alters its effectiveness and when you're talking about something that is only marginally effective to begin with, then the odds favor it never having the same impact.
The MAGA teen in DC is evidence that you are wrong. Some anonymous Brazil twitter account managed to get the Washington Post to report on an incident that never really happened.

His path to re-election is possibly harder
It is unquestionably harder. He simply does not have the numbers. I don't mean that in a "maybe some will change," I mean that in a very literal there simply are not that many Republican voters period. He would need something on the order of ten million to fifteen million Democrats to flip in order for him to win.

Something along those lines (I did the calc in another thread somewhere). While the Russian/Cambridge Analytica warfare was effective, it's not THAT effective. In another other thread, the effectiveness is on the order of what we saw in the three states, so while it worked then, it can't work the same way again precisely because we know it exists, which, again, decreases its effectiveness.

When you're talking about something that is already at around .06% effective--but only when it's clandestine--then you're talking about reducing its effectiveness exponentially once it's known to exist.

but maybe easier, because Trump has effectively eliminated the importance of truth.

For his base, who never had it to begin with. Not for any of us.
The 2020 race has two prongs for Trump and the GOP, all the accomplishments of Trump (most of which never happened, but that doesn't matter) and the Democrats want to steal your wealth and give it to minorities. The second portion is aimed at the undecideds. Ultimately, it comes down to turnout... but the GOP has shown they are willing to poison the well in order to quell independent support for the Democrats.

With the death of truth, getting elected in 2020 becomes a bit easier
Again, the "death of truth" only happened to his base, which represent about 10% of ALL Americans at the very best. Remember, there is a core base and then there are several rings out from that core, but even to the outer most rings of Republican voters, they still only represent about 23% of ALL American voters.
90% of Republicans support Trump right now. I wish your optimism wasn't misguided. Right now, victory in 2020 hinges on monster level turnout like in 2018 and a candidate that people can get behind. I think we can get there, but I don't think it is settled science.
 
90% of Republicans support Trump right now. I wish your optimism wasn't misguided.

Then perhaps this will cheer you up:

Screen Shot 2019-08-01 at 12.50.50 PM.png

Only 66% of Republican voters "strongly approve" of Trump, not 90%. Even if you throw in the "somewhat approve" (which you shouldn't, as that indicates a fence sitter and thus a potential swing), it's only at 88%. Remember, that's 88% of 26% of voters. 38% describe themselves as Independents and 31% are Democrats.

In regard to the question of whether or not the country is headed in the right direction:

Screen Shot 2019-08-01 at 12.53.21 PM.png

Only 72% of Republicans, down from 78% from those who voted for Trump in 2016. Iow, the trend is down, not up. And, again, that would then translate into 72% of only 26% of all voters.

Now look at the Independents. 66% think the country is going in the wrong direction (you include the "not sure" in that, because if you felt it was going in the right direction, you'd clearly indicate that).

In regard to approval among Indies, only 19% "strongly approve." That's a whopping 82% who are on the fence to one degree or another. Even if you throw in the "somewhat approve" you only get 35%. From the PEW piece I posted previously in regard to Independents:

70% of [Independent] GOP leaners approved of [Trump's] job performance during his first two years in office.

From 70% down to 35% among the largest segment of voters!

Right now, victory in 2020 hinges on monster level turnout

No, it really doesn't. We had "monster level" turnout in 2016. It was nearly tied with 2012--Hillary garnering almost as many raw votes as Obama did--which was the second place record-holder. The top was 2008.

But no one should ever be using the two top record holding elections as a base for comparison. Regardless, hers comes in third.

I really need to write a dissertation on the bizarre binary thinking block on "winning."

That aside, there are supposedly some 200 million registered voters now, so do the math. Of that about 140 M actually voted. Something like that. 38% are Indies; 31% are Dems; 26% are Repugs. So that's 36.4 M repugs that will actually vote. Out of them, only 24 M "strongly approve" of Trump. Likewise, there are 43.4 M Dems who we know will pretty much ALL vote against Trump.

In regard to Indies, we have some 53.2 M. Out of that, only 18.6 could vote for Trump again (that includes "somewhat approve" just to hedge). So that's a total of 55 M Repugs and Indies that might vote for Trump.

But that's up against 78 million Dems and Indies that will likely vote against Trump.

I think we can get there, but I don't think it is settled science.

Well, it's politics, so it's never settled even after the vote as we have abundantly witnessed time and again. But we're talking about real numbers here and a finite amount of voters, with the largest group now constituting people under 50 for the first time in forever apparently.

And they are primarily college educated, so the whiskey tangos are finally death rattling.

So, again, the only way--the ONLY WAY--that Trump could possibly win is to cheat again, so we should literally all be focused on exclusively seeking out the tell-tale signs of that activity. Nothing else matters, including who our candidate is (other than someone obviously bad).

And that's a good place to start, in fact, because whoever starts emerging as the front runner this early in the game is going to have Russian digital fingerprints all over them. Just as they did in 2015, they will push for the candidates they think they can weaponize to destroy the other stronger candidates to beat Trump and then once the weakest is in the chute, so to speak, they will simply turn their canon around and start destroying him or her.

My guess is Sanders, because they already targeted him and all of his supporters and they are rabid enough and myopic enough and narcissistic enough to think that they couldn't possibly have been manipulated, which will make them even easier to manipulate and far more difficult for us to find that manipulation, because they will all be screaming cover noise any time it's pointed out.

They are, essentially and effectively, the deplorables of the left. Not in ideology; in idiocracy.

Buttiegege might be a tempting target, but I doubt even the Russians would think they'd have much success at making him the nominee. More likely they would target someone like Warren. It's the same game plan as Clinton. She's been heavily vilified already on the right and Trump already tramp-stamped her with "Pocahontas" etc.

Biden is too old school and has too many bona fides, but unfortunately he's also too far out of the game as a result, so he'd be difficult for them to weaponize and/or turn their canon once in place.

The other clues to follow, of course, will be anything out of Trump's mouth as it relates to the Democratic field and/or anything that relates to things that just stand out as being particularly off. I know that's a broad net, but then, that's always been deliberate, so it will be things that are specifically worded and repeated to break through the other constant noise he spews.

So, Warren and Sanders will be boosted no question. Which means it's like looking for a black hole; so long as you know the general direction you can look at the effects around the area to confirm what is otherwise difficult to see directly. We know those two are prime targets that Trump could easily beat and the Russians could easily weaponize as they've already done with (at least) Sanders.
 
According to that, 88% of Republicans approve of Trump. My point stands.
 
According to that, 88% of Republicans approve of Trump. My point stands.

No, again, it does not. 66% do. "Somewhat" approve is not approval and means they are potential swing voters or simply non-voters. Regardless, I edited before you posted, so look at the numbers of voters. Here, I'll post it again for convenience:

There are supposedly some 200 million registered voters now, so do the math. Of that about 140 M actually voted in 2016, so let's keep that as a baseline since, again, that's the third place winner, so we'll likely see something along those lines. Regardless, the numbers favor us.

38% are Indies; 31% are Dems; 26% are Repugs. So that's 36.4 M repugs that will actually vote. Out of them, only 24 M "strongly approve" of Trump. Likewise, there are 43.4 M Dems who we know will pretty much ALL vote against Trump.

In regard to Indies, we have some 53.2 M. Out of that, only 18.6 could vote for Trump again (that includes "somewhat approve" just to hedge).

So, EVEN IF 100% of Repugs vote for Trump, that's a total of only 55 M Repugs and Indies that might vote for Trump.

But that's up against 78 million Dems and Indies that will most likely definitely vote against Trump. That's a 23 million voter swing that Trump must overcome.

That can't be done through any Russian cyber warfare, no matter how exponentially it's grown since it began in 2014 (or earlier).

ETA: Even if I'm wrong--like WAAAAAYYYY wrong; 50% wrong--that's STILL a ten to twelve million voter swing he'd have to guarantee in order to even have a chance of winning.

So that means, of course, he has to once again put all of his chips on an EC strategy, but the same conditions that allowed for teeeeny tiny sliver of a flip in 2016 don't exist anymore. He can't claim he's running against the "establishment." That won't swing any votes. Nearly all the "blue states" he barely managed to flip before are now firmly back to blue, including the counties he/the Russians targeted.

He can't do anything to suppress Dem voters and very little to flip Indie voters. All he can do is play to his chorus, which, again, is only at 66% strong approve, which means that other 22% "somewhat approve" are definitely up for grabs or may just not vote, but even if they do, again, not enough.

So, he can't suppress and he can't spontaneously grow more voters and he can't even convince more than 66% to strongly approve.

That leaves cheating as the only option and there are only certain ways that can happen and we know which states and which counties now because they did it already in 2016.
 
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66% strongly approve, 22% somewhat approve. That is 88% combined. You are reading outside the context of the labels. That number needs to drop below 80% before the GOP starts getting nervous.
 
66% strongly approve, 22% somewhat approve. That is 88% combined. You are reading outside the context of the labels.

I am not, but, again EVEN IF 100% of Repugs vote for Trump, that's a total of only 55 M Repugs and Indies that might vote for Trump.

But that's up against 78 million Dems and Indies that will most likely definitely vote against Trump.

That's a 23 million voter swing that Trump must overcome. So he's fucked regardless. Unless a MASSIVE fraud is undertaken that would make 2016 look like 2000. There would be no way to hide such a massive fraud, so short of a complete destruction of our entire system of government ala Russian Revolution or Nazi Germany none of the earlier tricks and unique circumstances are going to be very much in play.

That number needs to drop below 80% before the GOP starts getting nervous.

A 66% "strong approve" rating is cause for GREAT concern for any Repug Senators up for a contested re-election. They can't hang their hat on a 22% "somewhat approve" differential. Remember, they will also have to appeal to Democrats in their states to win. That's why they are considered "contested" seats.
 
66% strongly approve, 22% somewhat approve. That is 88% combined. You are reading outside the context of the labels.

I am not, but, again EVEN IF 100% of Repugs vote for Trump, that's a total of only 55 M Repugs and Indies that might vote for Trump.

But that's up against 78 million Dems and Indies that will most likely definitely vote against Trump.

That's a 23 million voter swing that Trump must overcome. So he's fucked regardless. Unless a MASSIVE fraud is undertaken that would make 2016 look like 2000. There would be no way to hide such a massive fraud, so short of a complete destruction of our entire system of government ala Russian Revolution or Nazi Germany none of the earlier tricks and unique circumstances are going to be very much in play.

That number needs to drop below 80% before the GOP starts getting nervous.

A 66% "strong approve" rating is cause for GREAT concern for any Repug Senators up for a contested re-election. They can't hang their hat on a 22% "somewhat approve" differential. Remember, they will also have to appeal to Democrats in their states to win. That's why they are considered "contested" seats.
GW Bush had 89% Republican approval support in April '04. We saw how that election came out.

And when comes to polling, more '04 info to keep things in perspective. W won and his occupation of Iraq was beginning to show real weakness. The one thing Trump doesn't have against him is a failed military whatever.
 
I am not, but, again EVEN IF 100% of Repugs vote for Trump, that's a total of only 55 M Repugs and Indies that might vote for Trump.

But that's up against 78 million Dems and Indies that will most likely definitely vote against Trump.

That's a 23 million voter swing that Trump must overcome. So he's fucked regardless.

Hillary managed to lose the presidency to Trump. Do you really think it out of the realm of possibility that he wins a second term against somebody else? Was she THAT bad a candidate?
 
I am not, but, again EVEN IF 100% of Repugs vote for Trump, that's a total of only 55 M Repugs and Indies that might vote for Trump.

But that's up against 78 million Dems and Indies that will most likely definitely vote against Trump.

That's a 23 million voter swing that Trump must overcome. So he's fucked regardless.

Hillary managed to lose the presidency to Trump. Do you really think it out of the realm of possibility that he wins a second term against somebody else? Was she THAT bad a candidate?
No, GOP voting people are just that bad of people.
 
I am not, but, again EVEN IF 100% of Repugs vote for Trump, that's a total of only 55 M Repugs and Indies that might vote for Trump.

But that's up against 78 million Dems and Indies that will most likely definitely vote against Trump.

That's a 23 million voter swing that Trump must overcome. So he's fucked regardless.

Hillary managed to lose the presidency to Trump. Do you really think it out of the realm of possibility that he wins a second term against somebody else? Was she THAT bad a candidate?
No, GOP voting people are just that bad of people.

Still not out of the realm to surmise that the Dems might nominate someone who can be effectively Hillarized by the Trumputin machine.
If that happens and Moscow Mitch remains in power, this country is entirely fucked.
 
No, GOP voting people are just that bad of people.

Still not out of the realm to surmise that the Dems might nominate someone who can be effectively Hillarized by the Trumputin machine.
If that happens and Moscow Mitch remains in power, this country is entirely fucked.

Please, Elixir, I'm begging you... stop
 
No, GOP voting people are just that bad of people.

Still not out of the realm to surmise that the Dems might nominate someone who can be effectively Hillarized by the Trumputin machine.
If that happens and Moscow Mitch remains in power, this country is entirely fucked.

Please, Elixir, I'm begging you... stop

Your wish, my command. In plain English:

It is entirely possible in my opinion that the Democratic Party might put forth a nominee whose characteristics make them vulnerable to propaganda attacks by President Trump and his allies among the United States' foreign adversaries.
Should that occur, and result in President Trump earning a second term with Senate Leader McConnell retaining his position, it will cause extremely adverse long term effects on the United States, probably resulting in the permanent installation of an authoritarian regime with President Trump and his family as a dynastic fixture not unlike The People's Republic of North Korea's Kim family.

Better?
 
I agree that there is no electoral situation so favorable that the democrats can't fuck it up.
 
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