Trump falls!! Hurt too

[robnisch]

What gets me is how his first thought after realizing he was alive was to do a photo -op suitable for t-shirts.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

If someone is deliberately shot at, it will be either a hit or a miss. The chance of a minor graze is phenomenally lucky if this was a genuine shot.
I think the Biden campaign needs to organize an "assassination attempt" on President Biden to even out any sympathetic effect Trump may or may not have achieved.

 

[Ford]

What gets me is how his first thought after realizing he was alive was to do a photo -op suitable for t-shirts.

I mean, if the shooter had succeeded, his family would have sold his bloodstained suit at a "charity" auction where the money went straight into their pockets.

I just heard on the news that Trump is rewriting (meaning having someone rewrite) his convention speech to be all about "unifying" America and not attacking Biden. I have doubts that he'll be able to stick to whatever script is handed to him, and concerns that his campaign will actually manage to keep him under control and present him as some sort of martyr/Christ figure.

I'm getting strong "Palpatine's scarred face at the Imperial Senate" vibes right now.

 

[Ford]

Of course, this was a different situation. There's apparently a video where you can hear several audience members shouting "He's got a gun!" when the shooter had climbed upon the roof, but how did no one notice that he had it before he managed to get up there?

Looking from the land down under I am not surprised that the chap was able to to the top of the building with a gun.
You have so many people wandering around with guns all the time. It would have looked normal.

On an unrelated issue - why do you yanks hate each other so much?

Short answer - Rush Limbaugh.

So one man caused all the hatred? He must have had magical powers. Good job he is dead then.

Yes, no and yes respectively. The guy literally invented the format for US AM radio in such a way that would make Alan Jones self combust with envy.

And despite the fact it's good the cunt is dead, he left behind enough disciples that his legacy lives on magnified. Head on over to the states and listen to their AM stations - it's basically what the Taliban would sound like if they grew up in Hollywood. And it's not an exaggeration to trace it back to Limbaugh.

Well there were other talk radio hosts before Rush, and if I remember correctly the format of his show was copied from that of fellow syndicated host Dr. Dean Edell. But yeah, he turned it into a juggernaut of suck. I remember having a conversation with a radio consultant back in 1993 when our station was trying to figure out what the ideal commercial load per hour should be, and I said that 4 breaks per hour was too much. He responded with "you know who runs 4 breaks an hour? Rush Limbaugh." Of course, we were a music station so the comparison was off, but it got me to paying attention to Rush's formula.

After the top of the hour news/traffic/weather was done, his first segment was a general recap of the "news" as he saw it, and by the end of that first segment he'd land on the topic for the hour...almost. It was "and coming up, let me tell you about (something that will make you mad)." Commercial break. Then he'd spend the next segment ranting about Hillary Clinton's pantsuit or whatever, working himself (and the listeners) up into a lather. In the background, his phone screener was lining up the calls. That's where the "magic" happened.

Rush's phone screeners were actually pretty good. They'd sift through all the angry callers, find a few who agreed with Rush ("Dittoheads"), and then find that one caller who was liberal, but a blithering idiot. Rush would bask in the glow of the listeners who told him how right he was, and then when he got to the blithering idiot liberal, he'd dispatch him in that segment (or perhaps hold it over through the next commercial break) and then spend the last 1/4 hour saying "see? I told you so!" Were there liberal callers who could shred Rush's argument in a heartbeat? Of course. But they never got on the air. The formula worked, and soon the AM airwaves were filled with right wing hosts copying the format.

Years later, I was having drinks with a former assistant of mine who'd landed a job at the local Rush affiliate as a phone screener for a former Congressman who'd launched his own Rush-style talk show. I asked him "how's it going over there?" He said "this job is making me lose my faith in humanity."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Short answer - Rush Limbaugh.

So one man caused all the hatred? He must have had magical powers. Good job he is dead then.

Yes, no and yes respectively. The guy literally invented the format for US AM radio in such a way that would make Alan Jones self combust with envy.

And despite the fact it's good the cunt is dead, he left behind enough disciples that his legacy lives on magnified. Head on over to the states and listen to their AM stations - it's basically what the Taliban would sound like if they grew up in Hollywood. And it's not an exaggeration to trace it back to Limbaugh.

So before Rush Limbaugh this undercurrent of hatred did not exist?
What do you have with your Weet-bix in the mornings?

Patooka did indicate that was the short answer. The longer answer is Nixon, NRA, Limbaugh, and the Neocons and the snowball effect. The US has had partisan attitudes for a long time. That isn't new. The 19th century had some pretty exciting times in the houses of Congress.

But the issue plaguing the US today is indeed the consequences of the Republican Party embracing and politicizing the anger against the Civil Rights movement. The racist Democrats swapped parties. Then in the early 80s, AM radio began being used to spread the message. Limbaugh got more popular and in the 90s helped dethrone George HW Bush (Republican) from the White House. Meanwhile, the NRA was turned into a political organization that seemed to perfect the stamp of approval process, not giving a lot of money out, but getting Republicans in line to get their supports. He would joust with Clinton until Clinton realized that was a waste of time. Fox News shows up and now, the snowballing process is beginning. Limbaugh and Fox News begin going from partisan to heavily partisan. Come 9/11, Glenn Beck decides he can make a lot of money off of this shit and changes his radio persona, just like a professional wrestler. At this point, the Republicans in Congress start sounding like the AM radio, Fox News folks from about 5 years previous, as the Limbaughs, Becks, and Hannitys are getting more and more partisan and even vile, making claims that al Qaeda wanted John Kerry to win. Obama wins in '08 and the right-wing on the radio starts the authoritarian stuff, indicating that minorities shouldn't need to cede authority. The trend of Republicans in Congress sounding like AM Radio / Cable News continues. Snowballing continues as Trump becomes a thing. At first, the AM Radio and Fox News are not Trump fans. Sean Hannity switches quickly, uncertain why. The slowly the Limbaughs move in line. The quasi-intellectual wing of the right-wing radio, ie the Pragers and Medveds (not a lot of them) didn't know what to do. Ultimately, when Trump became the nominee, they made the arguments why a Republican should be in the White House, not a Democrat. Snowballing continued on as Prager becomes a true believer, while I think Medved disappeared from the radio.

This shit all culminates to the 2020 election where AM Radio and Cable News networks (OANN and Newsmax as the far right is so far right, they think Fox News is RINO), start fucking up and getting themselves in to serious trouble with defamation. But mission accomplished as they convinced thousands of people to storm the US Capitol building.

It is eerily cult-like.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What gets me is how his first thought after realizing he was alive was to do a photo -op suitable for t-shirts.

Actually, his first thought was the liberals tried to kill him. Which then led to him doing the first pump and "fight".

 

[Jarhyn]

What gets me is how his first thought after realizing he was alive was to do a photo -op suitable for t-shirts.

Actually, his first thought was the liberals tried to kill him. Which then led to him doing the first pump and "fight".

You realize that in the WWE, wrestlers would cut their own body with razor blades to look tough, and get the crowd whipped up, and to look more triumphant when they turned it around, make a show to blame their opponents, and then "fight".

They would even take blood thinners to increase their bleeding.

This in fact happened quite a lot until it got banned.

Donald Trump has long experience and involvement with WWE.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What gets me is how his first thought after realizing he was alive was to do a photo -op suitable for t-shirts.

Actually, his first thought was the liberals tried to kill him. Which then led to him doing the first pump and "fight".

You realize that in the WWE, wrestlers would cut their own body with razor blades to look tough, and get the crowd whipped up, and to look more triumphant when they turned it around, make a show to blame their opponents, and then "fight".

Yes.

And based on what I saw, his reactions were generally genuine. When he gets up, he starts looking real angry. Things are starting to click, and as usual, he concludes this all about him and it has to be the liberals and Obama and Clinton, etc...

They would even take blood thinners to increase their bleeding.

This in fact happened quite a lot until it got banned.

Donald Trump has long experience and involvement with WWE.

And this really goes off the rails when you realize someone was actually shot and killed. The question is why the police officer who followed the shooter up the ladder, didn't immediately make an announcement of it.

You can Parallax View this till the comes come home, but you are going to need actual evidence to support your claim, which is generally not falsifiable from the start.

 

[scombrid]

Limbaugh was just a mouth piece for the Heartland Institute and Hannity for Heritage Foundation. It took them a minute to expand into the modern media landscape but now we've got all their shit on social media and their alternative news stations.

 

[Jarhyn]

What gets me is how his first thought after realizing he was alive was to do a photo -op suitable for t-shirts.

Actually, his first thought was the liberals tried to kill him. Which then led to him doing the first pump and "fight".

You realize that in the WWE, wrestlers would cut their own body with razor blades to look tough, and get the crowd whipped up, and to look more triumphant when they turned it around, make a show to blame their opponents, and then "fight".

Yes.

And based on what I saw, his reactions were generally genuine. When he gets up, he starts looking real angry. Things are starting to click, and as usual, he concludes this all about him and it has to be the liberals and Obama and Clinton, etc...

They would even take blood thinners to increase their bleeding.

This in fact happened quite a lot until it got banned.

Donald Trump has long experience and involvement with WWE.

And this really goes off the rails when you realize someone was actually shot and killed. The question is why the police officer who followed the shooter up the ladder, didn't immediately make an announcement of it.

You can Parallax View this till the comes come home, but you are going to need actual evidence to support your claim, which is generally not falsifiable from the start.

No, I would EXPECT the Republicans to actually descend to murder for ratings at this point using a convenient catspaw. The guy openly discussed shooting people in broad daylight.

 

[Playball40]

Of course, this was a different situation. There's apparently a video where you can hear several audience members shouting "He's got a gun!" when the shooter had climbed upon the roof, but how did no one notice that he had it before he managed to get up there?

Looking from the land down under I am not surprised that the chap was able to to the top of the building with a gun.
You have so many people wandering around with guns all the time. It would have looked normal.

On an unrelated issue - why do you yanks hate each other so much?

Short answer - Rush Limbaugh.

So one man caused all the hatred? He must have had magical powers. Good job he is dead then.

Yes, no and yes respectively. The guy literally invented the format for US AM radio in such a way that would make Alan Jones self combust with envy.

And despite the fact it's good the cunt is dead, he left behind enough disciples that his legacy lives on magnified. Head on over to the states and listen to their AM stations - it's basically what the Taliban would sound like if they grew up in Hollywood. And it's not an exaggeration to trace it back to Limbaugh.

So before Rush Limbaugh this undercurrent of hatred did not exist?
What do you have with your Weet-bix in the mornings?

*shrugs* You don't have to take my word for it. But you did ask where the startling divisive political divide came from in contemporary US discourse. I stand by what I said.

I agree. RL took it to a whole new level. Sure 'shock' jocks existed, but RL was truly instrumental in saving AM radio from oblivion. Intended or not, he was the Xtian Nationalist love child.

 

[Playball40]

Short answer - Rush Limbaugh.

So one man caused all the hatred? He must have had magical powers. Good job he is dead then.

Yes, no and yes respectively. The guy literally invented the format for US AM radio in such a way that would make Alan Jones self combust with envy.

And despite the fact it's good the cunt is dead, he left behind enough disciples that his legacy lives on magnified. Head on over to the states and listen to their AM stations - it's basically what the Taliban would sound like if they grew up in Hollywood. And it's not an exaggeration to trace it back to Limbaugh.

So before Rush Limbaugh this undercurrent of hatred did not exist?
What do you have with your Weet-bix in the mornings?

Patooka did indicate that was the short answer. The longer answer is Nixon, NRA, Limbaugh, and the Neocons and the snowball effect. The US has had partisan attitudes for a long time. That isn't new. The 19th century had some pretty exciting times in the houses of Congress.

But the issue plaguing the US today is indeed the consequences of the Republican Party embracing and politicizing the anger against the Civil Rights movement. The racist Democrats swapped parties. Then in the early 80s, AM radio began being used to spread the message. Limbaugh got more popular and in the 90s helped dethrone George HW Bush (Republican) from the White House. Meanwhile, the NRA was turned into a political organization that seemed to perfect the stamp of approval process, not giving a lot of money out, but getting Republicans in line to get their supports. He would joust with Clinton until Clinton realized that was a waste of time. Fox News shows up and now, the snowballing process is beginning. Limbaugh and Fox News begin going from partisan to heavily partisan. Come 9/11, Glenn Beck decides he can make a lot of money off of this shit and changes his radio persona, just like a professional wrestler. At this point, the Republicans in Congress start sounding like the AM radio, Fox News folks from about 5 years previous, as the Limbaughs, Becks, and Hannitys are getting more and more partisan and even vile, making claims that al Qaeda wanted John Kerry to win. Obama wins in '08 and the right-wing on the radio starts the authoritarian stuff, indicating that minorities shouldn't need to cede authority. The trend of Republicans in Congress sounding like AM Radio / Cable News continues. Snowballing continues as Trump becomes a thing. At first, the AM Radio and Fox News are not Trump fans. Sean Hannity switches quickly, uncertain why. The slowly the Limbaughs move in line. The quasi-intellectual wing of the right-wing radio, ie the Pragers and Medveds (not a lot of them) didn't know what to do. Ultimately, when Trump became the nominee, they made the arguments why a Republican should be in the White House, not a Democrat. Snowballing continued on as Prager becomes a true believer, while I think Medved disappeared from the radio.

This shit all culminates to the 2020 election where AM Radio and Cable News networks (OANN and Newsmax as the far right is so far right, they think Fox News is RINO), start fucking up and getting themselves in to serious trouble with defamation. But mission accomplished as they convinced thousands of people to storm the US Capitol building.

It is eerily cult-like.

Don't forget Reagan's input here with allowing the Xtian Nationalists into the the political sphere.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Correct. When I say "longer answer", it is in no ways to be meant as the TLDR; comprehensive answer. It is more of a timeline.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

With a well dialed scope, practicing shooting every day, I could hit that target 99+% at that distance without windage flags with a M16, especially if the scope had a range finder that I could practice with. 500 meters is where it would get really iffy.

I have had standard military marksmanship training.

Same, pretty much 100%. The drill sergeants in basic training were positive I would be a hawkeye. It wasn't just my shooting...even prior to that there was a test where you pinpoint this thing on a screen over and over and the cadre sergeant commented he had never seen as small a cluster of points as mine. Back then I had 20/10 vision. But anyway... one of the drill sergeants stood right behind me during qualifications waiting to see me get the 40 out of 40, pressure was on in a different way than regular procedures. I missed some shots due to that and did not get the 40/40. I still did well and passed, of course, but my lesson in humility is that there is more than one variable (than just competence).

My first reaction upon hearing the news of distance was "this guy was a terrible shot." But then thinking about it more, there's a lot of other variables here like pressure, limited view, angle, counter sniper, ...

Now just also read that he WAS a terrible shot:

Trump shooter bought 50 rounds of ammunition on the day

It emerges that Thomas Matthew Crooks travelled to a local gun store hours before clambering onto a rooftop to aim at former president

www.telegraph.co.uk

While everyone tries to discover motive, maybe this guy just wanted to prove to his constant bullies he actually was a good shooter. Political assassins often have screwed up motives that are independent of partisanship...

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I mean it ptobably requires a psychopath, to be able to calmly shoot someone without pressure in any scenario.

 

[thebeave]

There's a bit of finger pointing going on between the local police and the SS:

Secret Service blames local police, says they were tasked with securing properties surrounding Trump’s Pa. rally

BUTLER, Pa. — The Secret Service blamed local police for failing to secure the rooftop from which gunman Thomas Matthew Crooks attempted to assassinate former President Donald Trump, insisting it was outside the perimeter the federal agency was tasked with protecting.

Instead, securing and patrolling the factory grounds of AGR International Inc. — located about 130 yards from the stage where Trump was speaking Saturday — was the responsibility of local Pennsylvania police, Secret Service representative Anthony Gugliemi said, according to the New York Times.

“Secret Service always has the lead on securing something like this,” Lt. Col. George Bivens of the Pennsylvania State Police told reporters.

“We work with them to provide whatever is requested by the Secret Service, but they’re the lead in that security,” he said.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So a firewall between local police comms and Secret Service comms? A guy getting onto the roof isn't the problem I see here as much as it appears an officer saw someone going up to the roof and Trump isn't manhandled three to five seconds later and shoved into the van. That feels like a communication issue where word wasn't being passed up the chain.

In 12 months when the report comes out, we'll know the issues, the mistakes, the things that'll be worked on, etc... etc...

 

[SLD]

It appears that Trump’s ear was hit by glass from the teleprompter. I wonder if the teleprompter deflected the bullet and that’s why he missed.

 

[thebeave]

It appears that Trump’s ear was hit by glass from the teleprompter. I wonder if the teleprompter deflected the bullet and that’s why he missed.

Are you sure about that? I just saw a photo showing the bullet (actually more of a vague fuzzy line) whizzing toward his head. But maybe that was faked?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It appears that Trump’s ear was hit by glass from the teleprompter. I wonder if the teleprompter deflected the bullet and that’s why he missed.

Are you sure about that? I just saw a photo showing the bullet (actually more of a vague fuzzy line) whizzing toward his head. But maybe that was faked?

Anything can be faked, but the photographer was on NPR this morning and was discussing the bureau calling him after they noticed it in the image. He said he took the exposure at 1/8000 sec, which I'm impressed because that aperture must be 1.x or something (professional photographer after all).

Regardless, the bullet passing Trump in the image doesn't provide anything regarding deflection of its trajectory or its distance from Trump. I will say, I've got to think it needs to be close enough for it to be caught in the focus, but I've not done photography like that before. Ultimately, we do likely know the shooters position and where the bullet ended and where Trump was standing. So the math will be possible.