Trump gets another foreign policy victory: Bahrain

[Harry Bosch]

I'm as hard on Don the Con as anyone. I think that his long term foreign policy is destroying our historic alliances and weakening our soft power. However, I have to give credit that his foreign policy is having some victories. There seems to be a general reduction in tensions in the ME. The Arab vs Israel tensions are dropping. Terrorist attacks are way down. And Bahrain just joined the UAE into having a long term peace with Israel.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/politics/israel-bahrain-trump/index.html

Now, I don't want to get Jason too excited! Trump is secretly employing far more special forces and drones to the bad guys. He's as aggressive as any President in that area. But his policies seem to be working to an extent. Or, am I wrong here?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But what exactly is driving these “deals”? The UAE deal provided almost no benefits to UAE and the agreement included embassies and flights. Whoopee!

And of course, there is the whole this is entirely out of left field thing. China and Iran aren’t negotiating with Trump, for obvious reason. So how in the heck is a guy that plays golf all the time, mediating any of this?

 

[Jayjay]

Peace between countries who have never been at war. Hooray. Meanwhile, Israel gets to squeeze Palestinians into ever-smaller bantustans, but hey, as long as Kushner and the sheiks in UAE get their money, what's wrong with that?

There is obviously some election calculations for Trump here as well. Trump gets to boast bringing peace to the Middle-East and avoids criticism over Israel's annexation of Jordan Valley just before election. If Trump wins, Israel can go back to doing whatever the fuck it wants. And even if Trump loses, he's still going to be the president for two more months which is plenty of time for Israel to move forward with the annexation plan. And are Bahrain or UAE going to cut ties and give up their bribes just because of that? Hardly.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Peace between countries who have never been at war. Hooray. Meanwhile, Israel gets to squeeze Palestinians into ever-smaller bantustans, but hey, as long as Kushner and the sheiks in UAE get their money, what's wrong with that?

There is obviously some election calculations for Trump here as well. Trump gets to boast bringing peace to the Middle-East and avoids criticism over Israel's annexation of Jordan Valley just before election. If Trump wins, Israel can go back to doing whatever the fuck it wants. And even if Trump loses, he's still going to be the president for two more months which is plenty of time for Israel to move forward with the annexation plan. And are Bahrain or UAE going to cut ties and give up their bribes just because of that? Hardly.

It's a big Trumpian win. Trump and his allies have been wanting to turn the mid-east from an Arab vs Israel conflict to a Sunni vs Shia conflict. They've also been wanting to decouple the link between Israel trade land for peace meme. The UAE and Bahrain didn't insist on any trade for land for peace, for the Palestinians (although as you noted, perhaps the annexation has been delayed). The interesting thing to me that the US is solidly behind the Sunni countries against the Shia. However, almost all terrorists who attack the US are Sunnis.

 

[ZiprHead]

So what exactly did Trump et al do to get this agreement?

 

[Harry Bosch]

So what exactly did Trump et al do to get this agreement?

I'll call Trump and try to get the inside story on this. Please give me a couple days though.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So what exactly did Trump et al do to get this agreement?

I'll call Trump and try to get the inside story on this. Please give me a couple days though.

You might get something quicker if you reference a celebrity.

 

[Keith&Co.]

So what exactly did Trump et al do to get this agreement?

He's Trump. He alters reality just by desire.
Remember how he got McCain to write a Veteran bill, and got Obama to enact it so he could have his 'i invented the internet' moment?

 

[Harry Bosch]

So what exactly did Trump et al do to get this agreement?

I'll call Trump and try to get the inside story on this. Please give me a couple days though.

You might get something quicker if you reference a celebrity.

Yea, sorry to Ziprhead. I was being a smart aleck. I read the article. And I know that Trump is pro-Israel; very anti Iran. And it seems like the area is going the way that he is intending. We'll see what happens if there are bumps in the world and who Trump will blame.

 

[Angry Floof]

So what exactly did Trump et al do to get this agreement?

Honestly, I don't believe Donald Trump actually has any kind of useful or realistic or even rudimentary understanding of the situation. He acts on infantile attention-seeking and delusion, so he either got something right completely by accident or, more likely, other people are acting on the situation by pulling his strings.

 

[Harry Bosch]

So what exactly did Trump et al do to get this agreement?

Honestly, I don't believe Donald Trump actually has any kind of useful or realistic or even rudimentary understanding of the situation. He acts on infantile attention-seeking and delusion, so he either got something right completely by accident or, more likely, other people are acting on the situation by pulling his strings.

I think that Trump will go down in history as one of our worst American presidents. And I think that we'll be suffering under his foreign policy debacles for a generation. But I think that we need to recognize that the middle east has stabilized a little under his watch. Sudan became the third Muslim country which has normalized relations with Israel.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-t...irates-sudan-07fe32a9ac1bd3afe5c503d4ff6bc859

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Trump is pro-Jewish vote and pro-Jewish campaign contributions and business deals. Being pro-Israel is just a means to his personal ends. If he could get the same thing from Iranian-Americans, he’d be blowing the ayatollahs.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Trump is pro-Jewish vote and pro-Jewish campaign contributions and business deals. Being pro-Israel is just a means to his personal ends. If he could get the same thing from Iranian-Americans, he’d be blowing the ayatollahs.

Well, I think that helping a country to normalize relations with another country benefits both countries equally and generally should lead to less chances of conflict in the future. I think that people talking to each is better than not. Having said that, I mostly agree with your statement. But I think that it's more that Trump is trying to appeal to his religious base by favoring Israel.

 

[Angry Floof]

So what exactly did Trump et al do to get this agreement?

Honestly, I don't believe Donald Trump actually has any kind of useful or realistic or even rudimentary understanding of the situation. He acts on infantile attention-seeking and delusion, so he either got something right completely by accident or, more likely, other people are acting on the situation by pulling his strings.

I think that Trump will go down in history as one of our worst American presidents. And I think that we'll be suffering under his foreign policy debacles for a generation. But I think that we need to recognize that the middle east has stabilized a little under his watch. Sudan became the third Muslim country which has normalized relations with Israel.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-t...irates-sudan-07fe32a9ac1bd3afe5c503d4ff6bc859

Maybe, but once again, Trump didn't do any of that. I don't believe he has any clue as to what's going on. I think whatever success he has had is by accident or by the efforts of others to influence him to action. He deserves as much credit as a stopped clock does for telling the correct time twice a day.

 

[Jayjay]

I think that Trump will go down in history as one of our worst American presidents. And I think that we'll be suffering under his foreign policy debacles for a generation. But I think that we need to recognize that the middle east has stabilized a little under his watch. Sudan became the third Muslim country which has normalized relations with Israel.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-t...irates-sudan-07fe32a9ac1bd3afe5c503d4ff6bc859

Maybe, but once again, Trump didn't do any of that. I don't believe he has any clue as to what's going on. I think whatever success he has had is by accident or by the efforts of others to influence him to action. He deserves as much credit as a stopped clock does for telling the correct time twice a day.

I disagee. The overarching story behind these peace deals is that the US is bribing various small countries to normalize relations with Israel, and giving Israel free hand to annex Jordan Valley and continue expanding the settlements. I don't see this just having happened on its own under Clinton admin, or even if other democrat or republican had won in 2016. It's a shitty deal for the Palestinians but may bring stability to the Middle-East as countries one after another turn their backs on them.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I think that Trump will go down in history as one of our worst American presidents. And I think that we'll be suffering under his foreign policy debacles for a generation. But I think that we need to recognize that the middle east has stabilized a little under his watch. Sudan became the third Muslim country which has normalized relations with Israel.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-t...irates-sudan-07fe32a9ac1bd3afe5c503d4ff6bc859

Maybe, but once again, Trump didn't do any of that. I don't believe he has any clue as to what's going on. I think whatever success he has had is by accident or by the efforts of others to influence him to action. He deserves as much credit as a stopped clock does for telling the correct time twice a day.

I disagee. The overarching story behind these peace deals is that the US is bribing various small countries to normalize relations with Israel, and giving Israel free hand to annex Jordan Valley and continue expanding the settlements. I don't see this just having happened on its own under Clinton admin, or even if other democrat or republican had won in 2016. It's a shitty deal for the Palestinians but may bring stability to the Middle-East as countries one after another turn their backs on them.

Jay: I'd be the first to say that you follow Israel news than I. But this story is about the Sudan (not the Jordan Valley or the Palestinians.)

 

[Jayjay]

I disagee. The overarching story behind these peace deals is that the US is bribing various small countries to normalize relations with Israel, and giving Israel free hand to annex Jordan Valley and continue expanding the settlements. I don't see this just having happened on its own under Clinton admin, or even if other democrat or republican had won in 2016. It's a shitty deal for the Palestinians but may bring stability to the Middle-East as countries one after another turn their backs on them.

Jay: I'd be the first to say that you follow Israel news than I. But this story is about the Sudan (not the Jordan Valley or the Palestinians.)

I was commenting on Trump policy in general, of which Sudan is the latest stepping stone. I don't think the peace deals between Israel and UAE, Bahrain or Sudan would have happened if Trump wasn't the president. It's not a matter of a "broken clock being right twice a day", or something that just happened in the world on his watch.

 

[Politesse]

Peace between countries who have never been at war. Hooray. Meanwhile, Israel gets to squeeze Palestinians into ever-smaller bantustans, but hey, as long as Kushner and the sheiks in UAE get their money, what's wrong with that?

There is obviously some election calculations for Trump here as well. Trump gets to boast bringing peace to the Middle-East and avoids criticism over Israel's annexation of Jordan Valley just before election. If Trump wins, Israel can go back to doing whatever the fuck it wants. And even if Trump loses, he's still going to be the president for two more months which is plenty of time for Israel to move forward with the annexation plan. And are Bahrain or UAE going to cut ties and give up their bribes just because of that? Hardly.

It's a big Trumpian win. Trump and his allies have been wanting to turn the mid-east from an Arab vs Israel conflict to a Sunni vs Shia conflict. They've also been wanting to decouple the link between Israel trade land for peace meme. The UAE and Bahrain didn't insist on any trade for land for peace, for the Palestinians (although as you noted, perhaps the annexation has been delayed). The interesting thing to me that the US is solidly behind the Sunni countries against the Shia. However, almost all terrorists who attack the US are Sunnis.

Seeing the Middle East as inherently divided between Sunni and Shi'a states is, in and of itself, buying into terrorist propoganda and hardly a pathway to "peace", any more than "recognizing" Hindu and Muslim States brought peace to India and Pakistan.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I disagee. The overarching story behind these peace deals is that the US is bribing various small countries to normalize relations with Israel, and giving Israel free hand to annex Jordan Valley and continue expanding the settlements. I don't see this just having happened on its own under Clinton admin, or even if other democrat or republican had won in 2016. It's a shitty deal for the Palestinians but may bring stability to the Middle-East as countries one after another turn their backs on them.

Jay: I'd be the first to say that you follow Israel news than I. But this story is about the Sudan (not the Jordan Valley or the Palestinians.)

I was commenting on Trump policy in general, of which Sudan is the latest stepping stone. I don't think the peace deals between Israel and UAE, Bahrain or Sudan would have happened if Trump wasn't the president. It's not a matter of a "broken clock being right twice a day", or something that just happened in the world on his watch.

What in the world is the significance of these deals? Carter's deal with Egypt took Egypt's military out of the equation for Israeli stability and the enemies against Israel have resorted to petty methods (and suicide bombers) to try and harm the nation. That was a substantial, long-term impact. Trump is getting miscellaneous nations to deal with Israel, kind of. The timing is peculiar, as is that these talks were happening at all. The major players with Israeli security have not said a peep about normalizing relations, so this really feels like a Division I football team bragging about beating a Community College club football team.

 

[Derec]

Seeing the Middle East as inherently divided between Sunni and Shi'a states is, in and of itself, buying into terrorist propoganda and hardly a pathway to "peace", any more than "recognizing" Hindu and Muslim States brought peace to India and Pakistan.

Recognizing reality is not "buying into terrorist propoganda[sic]". The Islamic world is inherently divided into these two camps and they genuinely hate each other.