University: "not about creating an intellectual space"

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The university’s 'Intercultural Affairs Committee' sent an email to the entire undergraduate student body 'suggesting' that students avoid 'cultural appropriation and misrepresentation' if they dress up for Halloween, complete with a Pinterest link to what 'approved' costumes look like as well as 'what to avoid'.

Why does the word suggestion have scare quotes?

 

[barbos]

Lot of yalling at Yell University.
But she has a point, that dude job description says nothing about freedom of speech, his job is to make student's life as boring as possible.

 

[Metaphor]

The university’s 'Intercultural Affairs Committee' sent an email to the entire undergraduate student body 'suggesting' that students avoid 'cultural appropriation and misrepresentation' if they dress up for Halloween, complete with a Pinterest link to what 'approved' costumes look like as well as 'what to avoid'.

Why does the word suggestion have scare quotes?

The authority of the email (sent by the Dean), the reach (sent to all undergraduates) and the length all suggest that the email should be taken Very Seriously.

It's also not clear how dressing up for Halloween might interact with the university's speech codes.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Is Yale University in danger of not being what it always has been? A place economic elite send their children to groom them to be oligarchs of the planet?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Why does the word suggestion have scare quotes?

The authority of the email (sent by the Dean), ...

Sending something from a dean (there is more than one Dean) does not imply it is a command when the text says it is a suggestion. In any case, the email is signed from the "The Intercultural Affairs Committee" and states and says it is a suggestion over and over.

...the reach (sent to all undergraduates) and the length all suggest that the email should be taken Very Seriously...

Yes, the email should be taken seriously. People should (morally and ethically) consider other people and have some empathy.

It's also not clear how dressing up for Halloween might interact with the university's speech codes.

The email makes it clear. The email says that free expression is a value of the university. But no one is allowed to send an email saying that they "hope students are considerate" because that is a fascist dictate in your mind?

 

[arkirk]

Is Yale University in danger of not being what it always has been? A place economic elite send their children to groom them to be oligarchs of the planet?

It was in keeping with their goal of grooming the future oligarchs of the planet that they sent the email memo. This was in effect just a warning to them. Always remember warm minority bodies are needed if you want to get your peach crop in. The email was just a test to see if there were any brats so spoiled they could not comply with rather simple instructions. They are trying to teach these kids to be like George W. Bush and Kerry....When they get too bratty...they need discipline.

 

[dismal]

I was tempted to dismiss this a a bunch of silly twits, but if they are to be our future oligarchs I suppose it's a big deal.

 

[Metaphor]

The email makes it clear. The email says that free expression is a value of the university. But no one is allowed to send an email saying that they "hope students are considerate" because that is a fascist dictate in your mind?

You have it exactly backwards: I'm not the one suggesting that the Dean had no right to send the email, I'm suggesting that yelling at people publically and calling for people to resign because they also sent an email (or defended someone who did) is an over-the-top reaction.

I also happen to believe that the 'hurt feelings' of others are no reason at all to change or cease behaviour that is none of other people's business.

 

[laughing dog]

That's like, a very, very small percentage of the entire student body at that particular University.

The point is that university discourse has changed. This may be a small percentage of the student body, but it is this small percentage which bullies everyone else to adhere to their doctrine.

Riiight because there have never been small percentages of students at colleges (or administrators) who try to bully everyone else to adhere to their doctrine(s) in the history of the US.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The email makes it clear. The email says that free expression is a value of the university. But no one is allowed to send an email saying that they "hope students are considerate" because that is a fascist dictate in your mind?

You have it exactly backwards: I'm not the one suggesting that the Dean had no right to send the email, I'm suggesting that yelling at people publically and calling for people to resign because they also sent an email (or defended someone who did) is an over-the-top reaction.

Free political speech does not have a volume control, though, it is sometimes loud and annoying.

And that also means that you're allowed to say that the recallers or protesters are stupid but calling them fascists because they have political opinions is out of line.

Publicly calling for the resignation of someone official is part of our democratic rights. We do not have to be ruled by idiots.

So someone like you is free to call for a Sex Discrimination Officer's resignation if you think she is discriminating based on sex. if you don't want to exercise that free speech right, you don't have to

Freedom.

I also happen to believe that the 'hurt feelings' of others are no reason at all to change or cease behaviour that is none of other people's business.

So you're okay with people bullying others with such intensity and frequency that someone suicides?

 

[Metaphor]

And that also means that you're allowed to say that the recallers or protesters are stupid but calling them fascists because they have political opinions is out of line.

I think you've mixed me up with another poster, because I didn't use the word 'fascist' or imply 'fascism'.

So you're okay with people bullying others with such intensity and frequency that someone suicides?

No, why would I be okay with that?

'Hurt feelings' can be a product of intentional, malicious, bullying behaviour. Intentional, malicious, bullying behaviour is the problem and hurt feelings are a natural response.

Hurt feelings can also emerge by repeatedly encouraging and validating a self-indulged brat's whine-o-meter. Christians get hurt feelings when you suggest homosexuals qua homosexuals aren't hurting anybody. Muslims get hurt feelings when you draw a figure and claim it's Mohammed. Hindus get hurt feelings when you offer their God a peanut (oh classic The Simpsons, how I miss you).

Hurt feelings are neither sufficient nor necessary in figuring out whether a behaviour is morally permissible. For example, intentional and malicious bullying behaviour is morally bad, even if it's attempted on someone who happens to have steely resolve and whose feelings don't get hurt.

But braiding your hair because you like how it looks, or drinking beer at Oktoberfest because you like beer, or dressing as another gender because you want to are all morally permissible because if the only way people can criticise them is by reference to their hurt feelings, then they have no case at all.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Hurt feelings are neither sufficient nor necessary ...

The email did not state that it was. It said to "consider," it "suggested," and it "hoped."

And you're not giving any real examples of legitimate hurt feelings. You know, like dressing up in black face like it specifically mentioned in the email.

 

[Metaphor]

Hurt feelings are neither sufficient nor necessary ...

The email did not state that it was. It said to "consider," it "suggested," and it "hoped."

And you're not giving any real examples of legitimate hurt feelings. You know, like dressing up in black face like it specifically mentioned in the email.

Huh? I did give you an example, your own example: intentional and malicious bullying behaviour is wrong, hurt feelings or not.

Now, is the person dressing up in blackface because they intentionally and maliciously want to hurt people's feelings? If so, then it would be wrong of them.

Or did the person dress up in blackface because she went as her favourite character on Orange is the New Black, didn't have a master's thesis on the history of blackface, had no idea people would take offense and no desire to cause offense? That person didn't do anything wrong, but the Internet sure got its hate on nonetheless.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Or did the person dress up in blackface because she went as her favourite character on Orange is the New Black, didn't have a master's thesis on the history of blackface, had no idea people would take offense and no desire to cause offense? That person didn't do anything wrong, but the Internet sure got its hate on nonetheless.

She should stop and think just as the email suggested she do. In fact, the email even mentioned the word "blackface" to her so in theory she could have become educated about it. Some people, though, are telling her that the email is worthless. Those people are wrong.

 

[Metaphor]

Or did the person dress up in blackface because she went as her favourite character on Orange is the New Black, didn't have a master's thesis on the history of blackface, had no idea people would take offense and no desire to cause offense? That person didn't do anything wrong, but the Internet sure got its hate on nonetheless.

She should stop and think just as the email suggested she do. In fact, the email even mentioned the word "blackface" to her so in theory she could have become educated about it. Some people, though, are telling her that the email is worthless. Those people are wrong.

She didn't even know what she was doing was 'blackface'.

Whether the email is useful, worthless, or harmful depends. But basing policy on hurt feelings is a very bad idea.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

She should stop and think just as the email suggested she do. In fact, the email even mentioned the word "blackface" to her so in theory she could have become educated about it. Some people, though, are telling her that the email is worthless. Those people are wrong.

She didn't even know what she was doing was 'blackface'.

Then when she read the email she chose to ignore the term and not find out what it meant. Probably that was because of all the people minimizing the value of the email sent out. They are equally to blame for her ignorance.

Whether the email is useful, worthless, or harmful depends. But basing policy on hurt feelings is a very bad idea.

The only "policy" there is here is to hope that students will stop and think to consider consequences to others, i.e. have a little empathy. Surely that can't be classified as "a very bad idea."

 

[Metaphor]

Then when she read the email she chose to ignore the term and not find out what it meant. Probably that was because of all the people minimizing the value of the email sent out. They are equally to blame for her ignorance.

I think we have crossed wires. I was referring to a specific case of a person (a celebrity) who dressed up as a character from OITNB for Halloween a couple of years ago, not someone from Yale. I was illustrating that intention is what matters, even if you're in blackface.

One person wrote a response email. There was not a barrage of people trying to 'minimise' the original email.

The only "policy" there is here is to hope that students will stop and think to consider consequences to others, i.e. have a little empathy. Surely that can't be classified as "a very bad idea."

But as I've already said, some consequences simply do not count in the moral tally. In fact, hurt feelings can sometimes be a morally desirable outcome, if it leads to modification of hateful attitudes and behaviour.

For example, same-sex couples have staged 'kiss ins' where one of the intended effects is to hurt the feelings of (and possibly disgust) the people who oppose LGBT rights. If some of these people see that their hurt feelings don't count for shit, they might stop feeling so butt-hurt over 'homosexuality' being 'rammed down their throat'.

 

[repoman]

 

[Derec]

I see the ridiculous "We are a culture, not a costume" nonsense is raising its ugly head again. I wonder if PC police at Yale has any problems with black people dressing as Vikings?

 

[TSwizzle]

She's an unhinged lunatic. When she took off her backpack, I thought she was going to assault the guy.