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Unmarried Ontario couple had no children and no house but man must still pay support, appeal court rules

Do you have a citation or link that indicates that the applicable law or reasoning is deliberately sexist? It is possible the applicable laws are gender-neutral, so that if the roles were reversed, the woman would be paying the man.
Name me one Canadian man who managed to force his ex-girlfriend to give him $53k/month. Hell, alimony decisions that benefit men are exceedingly rare even for legit married couples. They are unheard of for couples merely dating.

BTW, anyone who can afford to pay $53,007 per month is not serf, even if it is in Canadian dollars.

If he is FORCED to pay $53k/month for a woman for her to live in luxury and do nothing, then yes, he is a serf.
Note that feminists are defending this just because it benefits women. Not because it is just, because it patently is not just.


MORAL OF THIS STORY:
In Canada, it is very dangerous for men to date women, because courts may force the men to continue supporting her even after a breakup.
Men should stick to prostitues, as that is much, much cheaper in the long run.
After all, you only pay a prostitute when you fuck her. You don't have to continue paying her $50k/month for 10 years afterwards (or even indefinitely in many cases).
 
Do you have a citation or link that indicates that the applicable law or reasoning is deliberately sexist? It is possible the applicable laws are gender-neutral, so that if the roles were reversed, the woman would be paying the man.
Name me one Canadian man who managed to force his ex-girlfriend to give him $53k/month. Hell, alimony decisions that benefit men are exceedingly rare even for legit married couples. They are unheard of for couples merely dating.
Your demand is illogical - there is no reason to think that there is another case that is identical to this one with the genders reversed.
You made a claim of fact - it is up to you to substantiate it. I don't know if the applicable Canadian laws are gender neutral or sexist. Apparently neither do you.

If he is FORCED to pay $53k/month for a woman for her to live in luxury and do nothing, then yes, he is a serf.
Serfs were agricultural workers bound to feudal lords. They typically were not wealthy at all. There is no way this guy is akin to a "serf".
Note that feminists are defending this just because it benefits women. Not because it is just, because it patently is not just.
Can you provide a real citation or link to substantiate which alleged feminists are allegedly defending this solely on the basis that it benefits women?

Frankly, your hyperbolic rhetoric makes it seem your opposition is due solely to misogyny and not because it is inherently unjust.
 
Guys can earn alimony, too. They just have to work harder at being house husbands. It's their personal choice.

Courts are very reluctant to award men alimony. Only 4% o all alimony recipients in the US are men, even though women earn more in about 1/3 of marriages.

That's because less men are house husbands and less men apply for alimony in divorce. More men should try harder.

And remember, this wasn't even a marriage. They were not even cohabitating.

They were cohabitating.

The man should have just hired a hit man. And who knows, the money-grubbing, greedy, lazy, piece of shit ex may still suffer some unfortunate accident. Here's hoping, because in Canada there is no justce from the court system evidently so those harmed by sexist injustice have to take matters into their own hands.

Isn't against forum rules or something to advocate for illegal murder of someone? Assuming it's not, well, he should have stopped having sex and partially cohabitating so he wasn't common law married. To be open, that isn't enough for me to consider this a completely fair outcome and so I believe there is likely more to this story. People post biased news stories frequently. I think it would be a fairer outcome if he made promises or statements about the future and she relied on those. We are not privy to this info.
 
In Canada, it is very dangerous for men to date women, pay all their bills, pay off all their debts, lavish them with gifts, give them credit cards to use for all their purchases, and completely financially support for them for over a decade because courts may force the men to continue supporting her even after a breakup.
added the rather important bit that you unsurprisingly left out of that little tirade.

it continues to be utterly hilarious to me that people like metaphor and derec get so riled up over shit like this when people like metaphor and derec are why shit like this happens in the first place.
 
If he is FORCED to pay $53k/month for a woman for her to live in luxury and do nothing, then yes, he is a serf.
Serfs were agricultural workers bound to feudal lords. They typically were not wealthy at all. There is no way this guy is akin to a "serf".
Probably also depends how much money he has left after the payment.
I mean, if i were paying $53K per YEAR to anyone, i'd be in debtor's prison. I would want to know if this is what the 'victim' makes in a month? Is this half a month's pay, a week's pay, the daily profits off his maple syrup mine, what? The court had his financials. We don't. Can't judge how destitute this leaves him without that.

Kinda like that McDonalds coffee/lap/spill lawsuit? The money amount awarded seemed egregious. But she got third degree burns, her vagina melted shut, and the jury awarded her McDonalds' profits from ONE DAY of coffee sales.

So, yeah, need more info than the incredible damning realization that gender can be assigned to the participants.
 
Basically, this Canadian court made this man a serf to his ex-girlfriend. Not an ex-wife, not even somebody you lived with.

She was a lot more than an ex-girlfriend and it appears there was some cohabiting going on that puts the relationship into the common law wife category.


No man in Canada is now safe from being forced to pay his ex-girlfriend's lifestyle.

LOL. It is a very unusual scenario and probably only happens to very wealthy people but the courts have settled it at least by stating the "alimony" is only for ten years. That does seem rather extreme but maybe further appeals will change that.

It's sexist bullshit of the highest order, but feminists (including resident feminists on here like Toni) are defending it because it means a man is forced to pay a woman, and they always love sexist anti-male decisions like this.

Providing the law caters for if the roles were reversed (which it probably does) then you can't claim it's sexist.
 
:boohoo:

The horror! How dare they make a white male do that! It's just outrageous. Something should be done!

I guess you think that since he is white and male, courts robbing him blind is just.
I guess you are just a racist and a sexist.

Right back at you. typical when you feel offended by comments you call the poster names and label.
 
In Canada, it is very dangerous for men to date women, pay all their bills, pay off all their debts, lavish them with gifts, give them credit cards to use for all their purchases, and completely financially support for them for over a decade because courts may force the men to continue supporting her even after a breakup.
added the rather important bit that you unsurprisingly left out of that little tirade.

it continues to be utterly hilarious to me that people like metaphor and derec get so riled up over shit like this when people like metaphor and derec are why shit like this happens in the first place.

Yeah and I love to :poke_with_stick:, just to laugh at how riled up they get!!!
 
Your demand is illogical - there is no reason to think that there is another case that is identical to this one with the genders reversed.
Not identical. Find me any comparable case, with unmarried partners, because that's an important part of the story.
You can't do it, because you well know that this is not gender-neutral.

You made a claim of fact - it is up to you to substantiate it. I don't know if the applicable Canadian laws are gender neutral or sexist. Apparently neither do you.
If they were gender-neutral then all these outrageous stories of ridiculous alimony and divorce decisions would not be all in favor of women. I know it, you know it. Stop pretending.

If he is FORCED to pay $53k/month for a woman for her to live in luxury and do nothing, then yes, he is a serf.
Serfs were agricultural workers bound to feudal lords. They typically were not wealthy at all. There is no way this guy is akin to a "serf".
Can you provide a real citation or link to substantiate which alleged feminists are allegedly defending this solely on the basis that it benefits women?
Toni is positively giddy over it for example.

Frankly, your hyperbolic rhetoric makes it seem your opposition is due solely to misogyny and not because it is inherently unjust.
It is inherently unjust, and would be even if it WAS gender-neutral. The fact that it isn't gender neutral does not make it any less unjust, but more so. And pointing the sexist of it is not "misogynistic".
 
That's because less men are house husbands and less men apply for alimony in divorce. More men should try harder.
Courts are less likely to give men alimony under similar circumstances because the assumption is that a man should go and find a job while it's considered ok for a woman to mooch off her ex.

They were cohabitating.
They were not.
So what now? Canadian men should not allow the woman to spend the night ever, because sexist courts can use that to deem them to be "cohabitating" and force him to pay her alimony after a break-up

Isn't against forum rules or something to advocate for illegal murder of someone?
I wasn't serious, but at the same time I would not shed any tears if something were to happen to that thieving cunt or the corrupt, sexist judges who aided and abetted her armed robbery.

Assuming it's not, well, he should have stopped having sex and partially cohabitating so he wasn't common law married/
Blaming the victim again, I see. A man should be able to have sex with a woman without agents of the government forcing him to keep paying her long after a breaku

To be open, that isn't enough for me to consider this a completely fair outcome and so I believe there is likely more to this story. People post biased news stories frequently. I think it would be a fairer outcome if he made promises or statements about the future and she relied on those. We are not privy to this info.

It is a completely unfair outcome.
 
In Canada, it is very dangerous for men to date women, pay all their bills, pay off all their debts, lavish them with gifts, give them credit cards to use for all their purchases, and completely financially support for them for over a decade because courts may force the men to continue supporting her even after a breakup.
added the rather important bit that you unsurprisingly left out of that little tirade.

So he was generous while they were dating. Why should that entitle her to his money after they are broken up.

it continues to be utterly hilarious to me that people like metaphor and derec get so riled up over shit like this when people like metaphor and derec are why shit like this happens in the first place.

No we are not. I think people should not be forced to pay support to their former romantic partners.
 
She was a lot more than an ex-girlfriend and it appears there was some cohabiting going on that puts the relationship into the common law wife category.
Even if they were cohabiting, unless they were actually married I do not see why she should be considered as a "wife" and entitled to any of his money. That is a very dangerous concept. It is one thing to sign a marriage licence, quite another to be subject to this robbery just because she slept at your house sometimes.

LOL. It is a very unusual scenario and probably only happens to very wealthy people but the courts have settled it at least by stating the "alimony" is only for ten years. That does seem rather extreme but maybe further appeals will change that.
It is quite extreme, but I have no faith in any Canadian courts to not be sexist. Wasn't it in Canada where a pair of serial killers were convicted in such a way that the man got life in prison but the woman basically got a slap on the wrist?

Providing the law caters for if the roles were reversed (which it probably does) then you can't claim it's sexist.

Because you never see courts giving ex-boyfriends over 6 million of their ex-girlfriends' money.
 
Even if they were cohabiting, unless they were actually married I do not see why she should be considered as a "wife" and entitled to any of his money.

I know you don't see why but the courts do see why and that's what counts. I think it's a reasonable legal protection for both male and female (or whatever gender identity/orientation is involved) parties that one partner simply breaks up with the other partner after a long term relationship and assets are grabbed by one or the other.

That is a very dangerous concept. It is one thing to sign a marriage licence, quite another to be subject to this robbery just because she slept at your house sometimes.

Again, there's probably a lot more to this relationship than the occasional grown up sleepover. The courts have looked at all the circumstances and ruled they were living as common law wife and husband.

It is quite extreme, but I have no faith in any Canadian courts to not be sexist. Wasn't it in Canada where a pair of serial killers were convicted in such a way that the man got life in prison but the woman basically got a slap on the wrist?

I agree, it does seem very extreme considering how much money he already gave her. He was very generous to her. I do suspect she was somewhat of a gold digger. I think two male judges were on the alimony case ? Serial killers in Canada ? What's that all aboot eh ?

Because you never see courts giving ex-boyfriends over 6 million of their ex-girlfriends' money.

Maybe female multi millionaires are fewer or smarter, I don't know. But what does the law actually say ?
 
So he was generous while they were dating. Why should that entitle her to his money after they are broken up.
well morally there's certainly an argument to be made about whether or not they should, but legally and socially i've already explained that in very simple terms.
also of note is the fact that legally they were married, so that's the root cause of the ruling.

No we are not. I think people should not be forced to pay support to their former romantic partners.
yes, but you act like you find women to be sub-human chattel, and that mentality is what generally has kept women (on average) on the margins of society and effectively excluded from the higher paying segments of capitalist society for the last 1200 years.
this exclusion, and the fact that women were (and in many cases still are seen) seen as nothing more than breeding stock incapable of being trusted to conduct their own affairs is why it's assumed that a woman in a long term relationship is entirely dependent on the man for her basic livelihood, and why these kinds of laws were created... to ensure continuity of financial stability and avoid women becoming a burden on the state.

the default assumption by society that women are incompetent and unable to care for themselves, and the mentality that their place is the home and not the office, is why so many women struggle throughout their lives with financial or social mobility.
this creates a feedback loop - if women don't get the jobs that let them thrive on their own, then they continue to be dependent on men. if they're dependent on men, then these kinds of laws are necessary in order to alleviate the burden on the state.

it's just like with child support (another thing i know you hate) - the purpose of the law isn't to punish men, it's to prevent the woman and her children from becomes wards of the state.
unless you legislate the legal position that women and children who are poor should get fucked and starve to death, your only options are to use tax money to pay them or make the men directly in their lives (and who are more often than not in some way responsible for their situation) to pay them.

i'm willing to bet that if all alimony and all child support laws were stripped, and your taxes went up in order to support financial aid programs for single mothers and divorcees, you'd probably flip your shit even more than you do over things like this.
 
Not identical. Find me any comparable case, with unmarried partners, because that's an important part of the story.
You can't do it, because you well know that this is not gender-neutral.
I am not making any claims of fact. Nor do I have any knowledge of Canadian law or how to find their legal precedents. It is clear neither do you.

If they were gender-neutral then all these outrageous stories of ridiculous alimony and divorce decisions would not be all in favor of women. I know it, you know it. Stop pretending.
For your conclusion to be driven by reality and rationality, we would need to know the specifics of the earnings and wealth of partners in these cases. Relying on news reports requires the assumption that all such instances are reported.

The laws are written. Either they are written as gender neutral or they are not. Your claim of fact is unsubstantiated and it is up to you to substantiate.

Of course, if you are stating your opinion, there is no need to base it on fact.
Toni is positively giddy over it for example.
Really, how can you tell?
It is inherently unjust, and would be even if it WAS gender-neutral. The fact that it isn't gender neutral does not make it any less unjust, but more so. And pointing the sexist of it is not "misogynistic".
No, but advising that the woman should be killed, referring to her “, the money-grubbing, greedy, lazy, piece of shit” and “thieving cunt” is misogynistic.

BTW, this link - https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/CelebrityCafe/story?id=7356641&page=1 - has plenty of examples of generous alimony paid by women to men. By your standards that means in the US, the courts are general neutral.
 
Here is a more accurate headline: Man forced to pay support to woman with whom he had a 14 year relationship while paying most of her expenses and supporting her kids, so she could quit her job and spend much of the year traveling and vacationing with him.
 
What a surprise that a sexist feminist like you would agree with a court forcing a man to support his ex-girlfriend even after they break up.

But he introduced her as his wife, according to the OP. He wanted to marry her. They simply did not agree on terms.

If the circumstances were reversed and she was the one earning the money and he was the one managing their homes, children (each had children of their own), lives, etc. and gave up his career to serve her needs, I would think that she should pay him alimony.


Bullshit. They did not even live together.
That's not necessary for a couple to be married. As I mentioned in the post you are responding to, my former next door neighbor and her second husband never lived together. It was a second marriage for both. They each maintained their own separate residences. I know other couples who have similar relationships, where one owns say, a condo or something similar and spends months there at a time, leaving the other to manage the other home and join them if they choose.


And besides, even if they were married, a woman should have to get her own job and support herself after a break-up. A man should not have to support a woman just because he is a man.

I most certainly agree that women are wise to maintain their own careers regardless of their marital status. I know too many women whose ex hubands walk out on them and their children, neglecting to even paying court ordered child support or to spend time with the children during the agreed upon visitations. In the cases I'm thinking off the top of my head, there was no doubt as to paternity of the children. The husbands simply wanted out so that they could pursue new relationships (as it happens, those relationships also did not work out) and didn't want to be bothered with child support or spending time with their children. It's so awful and was so damaging that it's hard to imagine but unfortunately, it's true. One of the husbands did start to spend some time with his child at his new girlfriend's insistence. It was a horrible situation and unfortunately, it was the kid who got hurt the most. In those cases, fortunately, the women maintained their careers so they were able to pay bills and raise their children, burdened only by the damage done by dead beat, negligent fathers. I know too many other women who were abandoned by husbands or boyfriends, left to care for and provide for children on their own.

I also know the stresses and strains of maintaining a two career marriage with kids. It is almost always the case that one person cuts back on their career aspirations--and thus, their earnings and earning potential.

However, they WERE NOT EVEN MARRIED. They merely dated.

Under Canadian law, the court determined they were common law spouses.

It is also apparent that he was very conscious of laws governing marital assets (he kept presenting her with drafts of a pre-nup, which she refused to sign.). It seems impossible to believe that he was unaware that under Canadian law, they would be considered in a common law marriage. In other words, it seems as though he knew what he was getting into--and wanted even more of a commitment while maintaining all the financial freedoms HE decided he wanted. In other words, he wanted control. She demurred. Good for her.
It's NOT GOOD FOR HER.
It's his money. He should be able to have control over it. It is obvious that he did not want their finances to be combined and for the court to rule that he has to support her after breakup is ridiculous.

I don't see how you can say that he didn't want their finances combined. She quit her job. He gave her thousands of dollars a month, supporting her and her children 'lavishly,' I believe the court found. He paid off her mortgage, took her and children on vacations with him, introduced her using his last name. It seems very much as though they combined their financial assets and as though they presented themselves as a married couple.

We don't know why she quit her job or what kind of job she held previously. It could easily be the fact that she left her job at his request or insistence: he wanted her available when he wanted her available and work tends to interfere with that.

"It could easily be" is not something a court should base a decision to rob a man of his hard-earned money and hand it to a woman so she can continue not to work even after their relationship ended.

We have no idea how 'hard' he had to work to earn his money. The court obviously had at hand many more facts about finances of both parties before and during the relationship than were contained within the article. It is likely that she was not only a companion who acted as a spouse in the relationship but also enhanced his earnings. That often happens. And the court found it to be the case that she acted as his spouse.

It'a a bullshit decision based on a law that violates every principle of justice or gender equality. But you applaud it because it benefits women and gives them an unearned benefit and a legal privilege over the men they exploit.

I don't know that it is a bullshit decision. We don't have enough information about the particulars and I'm not familiar with Canadian case law. As I've stated before, I think that it is a gender neutral issue. If a man gives up his career to support his partner and the relationship fails, his non-monetary contributions and the status of the relationship should be considered in the division of any assets or in terms of monthly support.

We don't know how much care she provided to his three children or to what extent she behaved as his wife and presumably step mother to his children, and mother to her own. We don't know to what extent he acted as a father to her children or his own.

You don't know a lot and yet you still support the decison?
The COURT surely did know all of that information, even if it was not included in the article in the OP.

And even if she took care of his kids while they were dating - she enjoyed financial advantages WHILE THEY WERE DATING.
1. The court determined that they were not 'dating' but were in a common law marriage.

After the break-up she is not doing anything for him. So why should he be forced to continue to support her? It's very one sided - he is forced to support her, but she is not being forced to do anything for him. And that's just how you want it. Feminists want women to get continued advantages over men.

You have no idea what she is or is not doing for him after the relationship has ended. This issue is actually a gender neutral issue. Any partner who gives up their career to further the interests of the relationship, family and career of the other party should have that sacrifice recognized in any financial settlement after the break up.

I realize that this is a foreign concept to you as all of your relationships with women involve an exchange of money.


But after nearly 20 years out of the job market at about 58 years of age, it is unlikely that she would be able to find a decent job to support herself.

She can get some job. Instead of living in luxury doing nothing just because she used to date a man that the sexist, corrupt courts decided has to be a serf to a woman just because they used to date.

Again, they did not just date. He presented her as his wife, provided her with income and other assets. This was a relationship, not a job.

The bigger question to me is whether anyone should have a monthly income of $50K, even if it is only $50K Canadian. I find it impossible to feel sorry for him or to feel that an injustice was done with regards to the financials just as I find it impossible to feel sorry for Bezos or the financial settlement upon his ex.

Of course a grave injustice was done. Whatever his income is, he is working for it. She is getting $50k/month JUST BECAUSE SHE WAS BORN WITH A VAGINA and a sexist decided that a man should be forced to provide her with a luxurious income for doing nothiing.

You have no idea what she did or did not contribute to the relationship or what she did or did not do to enhance his career. You hate women and hate the notion of them ever having any rights whatsoeve.


Edited to add: My former next door neighbor and her husband (2nd marriages for each) maintained separate residences throughout their marriage. I know of other married couples that do as well. That is no indication that it wasn't a 'real' marriage.

These two people never got married. And even if they were married, alimony is unjust even in those cases. To pretend two unmarried people who are dating should be treated as married people for the purposes of alimony is an even graver injustice, but alimony in itself is robbery.

Alimony is not robbery. In fact, alimony is quite rare. In my own family, my father divorced my mother after 25 years of marriage, 4 children, after she became too disabled to work. During the bulk of their marriage, she did not hold a job outside of the home AT MY FATHER'S INSISTENCE. He bitterly resented the fact that he had to pay her a dime after he decided to divorce her. But what were her options? She was unable to get or hold a job. The state has an interest in ensuring that citizens do not end up on welfare and disability if they can. But hell, what he was forced to pay was insufficient to pay the bills on the extremely modest family home. If my sibling had not decided to move in to help both parents out, I have no idea what would have become of my mother. So please, don't give me all that bullshit about how women steal from men.

I hate to say it, but this poor guy could have saved himself a lot of humiliation and money just by hiring a good hitman. And given how much money this vile, lazy piece of shit feminazi is robbing from him, use of lethal force to prevent it would be justified. Bring on the jury nullification!

No one believes you hate to say that and no one is surprised that you think hiring someone to kill her would be a good solution to 'his problem.'

The case went to appeals which reduced the alimony to 10 years.

She's hardly a feminist. Very few feminists, if any, would have given up their careers or expected alimony.

Following your logic, she should have married him, hired a hit man and taken the whole enchilada.
 
In Canada, it is very dangerous for men to date women, pay all their bills, pay off all their debts, lavish them with gifts, give them credit cards to use for all their purchases, and completely financially support for them for over a decade because courts may force the men to continue supporting her even after a breakup.
added the rather important bit that you unsurprisingly left out of that little tirade.

it continues to be utterly hilarious to me that people like metaphor and derec get so riled up over shit like this when people like metaphor and derec are why shit like this happens in the first place.

What are you talking about? Neither Derec, and even less, Metaphor are "people like that".
 
:boohoo:

The horror! How dare they make a white male do that! It's just outrageous. Something should be done!

I guess you think that since he is white and male, courts robbing him blind is just.
I guess you are just a racist and a sexist.

Right back at you. typical when you feel offended by comments you call the poster names and label.

You are being a hypocrite, your quoted statement quite clearly impugns the motives of the OP, implying that they only care because it is being done to a "white male". It's stunning, in fact, that you show no shame in acting aggrieved by being called names and being labelled.
 
Why is it okay? Why should one partner be forced to provide for another after they are no longer a couple?
i'm not saying i personally agree with this logic (i don't) but the why of it is 2 parts:
1. old laws created and established during a period where a woman was literally physically incapable of taking care of herself and her children due to societal gender bias and the inability of women to get or keep jobs capable of providing self sustainability - financial dependence on men was the expected social order, and thus a break up where said financial dependence had been established wasn't just a romantic split but the end of one's livelihood.

2. the expectation that if one drops out of the work force for a sufficient amount of time and has their partner be their sole financial backer, that there is a period of adjustment where one has to re-enter the work force. if it's been a number of years, it can be difficult to find a job that is capable of supporting the lifestyle that one has settled into.

alimony and support laws are not new things, not based on modern social norms - they're based on a reality that no longer exists. it's ironic that the men who most act like their only fervent wish is for females to go back to being breeding stock with no autonomy of their own also rail the hardest against these sorts of laws, which only exist because they were created during a time that women were breeding stock with no autonomy of their own.

This.

Now, unless there's more to the story (and there may well be) then on the face of it it seems unfair to the guy, for the reason you mention, that the law (created as it might have been to address a social issue) is now out of date.
 
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