Violent riots underway in Kenosha, WI

[Toni]

Which the police would not have known.

What they DID know is that the guy was ignoring their commands and was deliberately moving toward the driver's door and was trying to reach in.
They also know what can happen when a suspect reaches into their vehicle and gets a gun (the video of the Daniel Clary traffic stop was posted here by Trausti I think).
It would have been reckless for police to allow Blake to get into the car under the circumstances.

You absolutely do not know any of that. You’re just creating a narrative to justify a police officer, sworn to serve and protect, shooting an unarmed black man in the back at point bland range.

 

[Toni]

Because the police are expert shots and know there are no ricochets? Do you realize how incredibly pathetic your apologia is?

Ricochets rarely come back in the direction the bullet was fired with dangerous velocity.

The police choose to shoot an unarmed man in the back near a car with children in it. No amount of spin nor smearing of the victim changes that basic fact. Nor does it alter the fact that you showed more concern over a police officer being hit a brick than an unarmed man who was not threatening anyone being shot to death by the police or children near or in the line of fire.

I repeat my question - WTF is wrong with people?

No amount of chanting "unarmed" is relevant. The car itself is a deadly weapon.

OMFG Loren! I’d ask if you were kidding but I know that you are not.

I don’t think anyone is concerned that ricochet from the bullets would fly back and harm the police officer. There were three young children in that ‘dangerous weapon’ any on whom could have been struck by a bullet or pieces of the car.

 

[Derec]

You absolutely do not know any of that. You’re just creating a narrative to justify a police officer, sworn to serve and protect, shooting an unarmed black man in the back at point bland range.

Which part do you claim I do not know? I stand by all of it. Sure, the police could not know for sure what he was going for in that car, but he has already shown hostility by resisting/struggling with them and allowing him access to the car is too much of a risk for all involved.
Let's say he gets hold of a gun and start shooting. That is not only dangerous for the police officers but also to all the civilians that can be seen out in the neighborhood.

This is what can happen when a suspect gains control of the car and retrieves a firearm. Now imagine this happening not on the shoulder of a highway but in the middle of a residential neighborhood with a bunch of civilians out and about.

 

[Toni]

There is no reason to think that bystanders know the whole story.

According to you, it doesn't matter if the police know the whole story either.

I have repeatedly pointed out that according to the law such situations are to be evaluated based on what was known to the shooter at the time.

Your playing monday morning quarterback doesn't change the law.

You and Derek are quarterbacking to put forth a narrative that justified another police officer shooting an unarmed black man—this time atom the back at point blank range.

If they were actually afraid of him weaponizing his car, they could have shot his tires.

 

[Derec]

I don’t think anyone is concerned that ricochet from the bullets would fly back and harm the police officer.

Quite the contrary. You people want to see more dead cops!

There were three young children in that ‘dangerous weapon’ any on whom could have been struck by a bullet or pieces of the car.

The kids were in the back, and Blake was shot with bullets flying forward, so any ricocheted fragments would have to travel essentially backwards to hit the kids.
And if Blake is such a great father, why didn't he think of their safety when he decided to resist and reach inside the car? Why didn't he surrender for their sake?

 

[Derec]

You and Derek are quarterbacking to put forth a narrative that justified another police officer shooting an unarmed black man

And you still don't get that "unarmed" does not mean "not a threat".
Regardless, it seems he may have been armed after all.

Was Jacob Blake Holding A Knife? Video Shows Something Many May Not Have Noticed


If not a knife, I wonder what it is he is holding in that still.

 

[Arctish]

There is a new video, from the other side of the car, that apparently shows St. Jacob struggling with officers before breaking free and going for the car door.

I was wondering how long it would take you to elevate Blake to sainthood.

It's been less than 48 hours since this thread was started. I think that's a new record.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Looks to me like there was a quick scuffle on the passenger side of the vehicle involving one of the officers. What proceeds after that doesn't make sense to me. Like there are three of you (I presume) carrying tasers but instead of using tasers you pull your fire arm and allow the man to walk all the way around the car with your weapon drawn putting the public in danger as well as any occupants of the vehicle. A taser (or three) would have had that man handcuffed a lot faster and with less deadly force than what they did.

But yeah, dude walking around the car and seemingly reaching in was a bad idea too.

Come on man.

Yea, we need more non-lethal techniques of bringing someone down rather than resorting to guns.

 

[Derec]

I was wondering how long it would take you to elevate Blake to sainthood.
It's been less than 48 hours since this thread was started. I think that's a new record.

It's not me, it's people like Benjamin Crump (who I am sure finds chasing an ambulance a welcome change from his usual chasing of hearses) and his lackeys in the media such as CNN. I watched some CNN coverage of the Jacob Blake shooting earlier today and it was sickening. A lot of focus on all the kids he has, on his other family members, how he moved to Wisonsin to "have a better life" but no mentions of his criminal past of his current warrants, including for a felony. They are engaging in spinning hagiographies, not journalism, hence the sarcastic canonization.

 

[Derec]

Yea, we need more non-lethal techniques of bringing someone down rather than resorting to guns.

They already tried the taser. And if he really had a knife, that would explain why they did not try to tackle him.

Instead of finding fault with the police, how about criticizing the behavior of Jacob Blake. Or do you think that because he is black he can do whatever he wants, and police are at fault if they don't let him be? For example, do you think police should have let him escape to avoid rioting?

 

[Arctish]

You and Derek are quarterbacking to put forth a narrative that justified another police officer shooting an unarmed black man

And you still don't get that "unarmed" does not mean "not a threat".
Regardless, it seems he may have been armed after all.

Was Jacob Blake Holding A Knife? Video Shows Something Many May Not Have Noticed
View attachment 29084

If not a knife, I wonder what it is he is holding in that still.

Jeez, Derec, are you and Loren just telling scary campfire stories now?

Blake was at his kid's birthday party, in plain view of a lot of people who saw no reason to be alarmed by his presence. The cops who arrived on the scene saw no reason to avoid getting close to the guy. Because you, Mr. Eagle Eye, are the only one who noticed he had a knife?

 

[Derec]

Jeez, Derec, are you and Loren just telling scary campfire stories now?

Huh?

Blake was at his kid's birthday party, in plain view of a lot of people who saw no reason to be alarmed by his presence.

Police were called because somebody was alarmed enough to call them. If it was an innocuous as you portray it here, police would not be there.

The cops who arrived on the scene saw no reason to avoid getting close to the guy.

The knife might not have been in plain view or in his hand until after he broke away from them and was going for the car.

Because you, Mr. Eagle Eye, are the only one who noticed he had a knife?

What are you blathering about? I literally linked to an article talking about the suspected knife. I never claimed I spotted it.

But do answer my question from before: if not a knife, what do you think it is?

 

[Trausti]

 

[ruby sparks]

No amount of chanting "unarmed" is relevant. The car itself is a deadly weapon.

I think that's a heck of a stretch, Loren. I don't believe there was reasonable cause to go as far as shooting him on the basis, "in case he might use his car as a deadly weapon".

The 'he could have been reaching for a gun' one is more reasonable, imo.

 

[ruby sparks]

Looks to me like there was a quick scuffle on the passenger side of the vehicle involving one of the officers. What proceeds after that doesn't make sense to me. Like there are three of you (I presume) carrying tasers but instead of using tasers you pull your fire arm and allow the man to walk all the way around the car with your weapon drawn putting the public in danger as well as any occupants of the vehicle. A taser (or three) would have had that man handcuffed a lot faster and with less deadly force than what they did.

But yeah, dude walking around the car and seemingly reaching in was a bad idea too.

Come on man.

Yea, we need more non-lethal techniques of bringing someone down rather than resorting to guns.

There seems to be an issue with tasers. In the video trausti posted (reposted above by derec I think) the guy was tasered but two cops still couldn't subdue him, and then he got up, grabbed his gun from inside his car, shot both cops and drove off!

I suppose they could make tasers stronger, but then that probably increases the risk that the taser will kill someone.

Also, I read that in this case the taser malfunctioned.

But you'd think someone could come up with something maybe. Something like the web thing Spiderman used to fire from his wrists to incapacitate and subdue without causing harm, as I recall. I even think there are such devices. Perhaps they are not reliable enough yet.

Rubber bullets? Lassoos?

 

[laughing dog]

You absolutely do not know any of that. You’re just creating a narrative to justify a police officer, sworn to serve and protect, shooting an unarmed black man in the back at point bland range.

Which part do you claim I do not know? I stand by all of it. Sure, the police could not know for sure what he was going for in that car, but he has already shown hostility by resisting/struggling with them and allowing him access to the car is too much of a risk for all involved.
Let's say he gets hold of a gun and start shooting. That is not only dangerous for the police officers but also to all the civilians that can be seen out in the neighborhood.

This is what can happen when a suspect gains control of the car and retrieves a firearm. Now imagine this happening not on the shoulder of a highway but in the middle of a residential neighborhood with a bunch of civilians out and about.

You do realize the defense of "it could happen" justifies any killing of anyone.

 

[ruby sparks]

You and Derek are quarterbacking to put forth a narrative that justified another police officer shooting an unarmed black man

And you still don't get that "unarmed" does not mean "not a threat".
Regardless, it seems he may have been armed after all.

Was Jacob Blake Holding A Knife? Video Shows Something Many May Not Have Noticed
View attachment 29084

If not a knife, I wonder what it is he is holding in that still.

Car keys? A still can be deceptive.

There are some pretty relevant claims made at that page you link to (see below) If true, it would change matters quite a bit. However, it could just be bollocks. We don't know. It would surprise me if these were known facts and the police had not come out and stated them yet. Consider me slightly sceptical until further clarification, but open to the possibility.

 

[Arctish]

Huh?


Police were called because somebody was alarmed enough to call them. If it was an innocuous as you portray it here, police would not be there.

The cops who arrived on the scene saw no reason to avoid getting close to the guy.

The knife might not have been in plain view or in his hand until after he broke away from them and was going for the car.

Because you, Mr. Eagle Eye, are the only one who noticed he had a knife?

What are you blathering about? I literally linked to an article talking about the suspected knife. I never claimed I spotted it.

But do answer my question from before: if not a knife, what do you think it is?

This is the Statement from the Kenosha Police Department:

At 5:11 pm Kenosha Police Officers were sent to the 2800 block of 40th Street for a domestic incident and were involved in an officer involved shooting.

Officers provided immediate aid to the person. The person was transported via Flight for Life to Froedtert Hospital, Milwaukee. The person is in serious condition.

Kenosha Sheriff’s Department and Wisconsin State Patrol were requested immediately so that the scene could be turned over to an agency, other than Kenosha Police.

The Wisconsin Department of Justice (D.O.J.), Division of Criminal Investigation (D.C.I.) will be investigating this officer involved shooting. Further media releases will come directly from D.C.I. Inquiries should be directed to dojcommunications@doj.state.wi.us

And this is the statement from the Wisconsin Department of Justice:

KENOSHA, Wis. – The Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) Division of Criminal Investigation (DCI) is investigating an officer involved shooting (OIS) in Kenosha, Wis. that occurred on the evening of Sunday, August 23, 2020.

The shooting occurred when Kenosha police officers responded to a reported domestic incident in the 2800 block of 40th Street.

Law enforcement immediately provided medical aid to the person who was shot. Flight for Life transported the person to Froedtert Hospital in Milwaukee. The person is in serious condition.

DCI is leading this investigation and is assisted by Wisconsin State Patrol and Kenosha County Sheriff’s Office. All involved law enforcement are fully cooperating with DCI during this investigation. The involved officers have been placed on administrative leave.

DCI is continuing to review evidence and determine the facts of this incident and will turn over investigative reports to a prosecutor following a complete and thorough investigation.

If members of the public have any further information regarding this incident, please contact law enforcement.

When DCI is the lead investigating agency of a shooting involving a law enforcement officer, DCI aims to provide a report of the incident to the prosecutor within 30 days. The prosecutor then reviews the report and makes a determination about what charges, if any, are appropriate. If the prosecutor determines there is no basis for prosecution of the law enforcement officer, DCI will thereafter make the report available to the public.

There has been speculation on social media about the identities of those involved in this incident. The public is advised to await identifying information from an official source.

No additional details are currently available.

Please direct all media inquiries regarding this incident to DOJ.

I don't know who the 'they' are in the article you linked, but apparently 'they' are not the Kenosha cops, the state investigators, or the Wisconsin Attorney General. I can't find any authoritative source for the story that Blake had a knife.

As for what I think it might be in that photograph, something durable I suppose. If I just saw that picture with no backstory, I would guess those were his sunglasses.

If it is a knife, I'm surprised the Kenosha PD hasn't mentioned it. You'd think they would say the guy was armed, what with the rioting and all.

 

[laughing dog]

Police were called because somebody was alarmed enough to call them. If it was an innocuous as you portray it here, police would not be there.

Nonsense. All someone has to say is "I think I see weapon" and the police show up.

Hell, where I live, I have had police show up because someone reported something suspicious because I was sitting in the front yard with my dog.

 

[Jarhyn]

Police were called because somebody was alarmed enough to call them. If it was an innocuous as you portray it here, police would not be there.

Nonsense. All someone has to say is "I think I see weapon" and the police show up.

Hell, where I live, I have had police show up because someone reported something suspicious because I was sitting in the front yard with my dog.

I mean shit, we have videos of Karens calling cops on black people for existing while black... And the black people getting shot for it. We have a video of a conservative Christian telling a cop a girl attacked her and the cop attacking the girl when the cop was there to see the girl not attacking him.

Police get called all the goddamn time on people who are doing fuck all, and too often, someone ends up dead as a result.