Volkswagen - How were they caught?

[barbos]

Now we hear that Audi and other automakers have the same cheat software. The other day I was conversing about this and said this is likely the case. Seems I was not wrong.

Audi is VW, so no other automakers, just diesel versions from VW.

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So it becomes less reliable? that's even worse.

What I read said the emissions system in question would wear out too soon.

you mean catalytic converter?

 

[bilby]

Audi is VW, so no other automakers, just diesel versions from VW.

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So it becomes less reliable? that's even worse.

What I read said the emissions system in question would wear out too soon.

you mean catalytic converter?

To get sufficient reductions in NO_x, most lean burning, low soot diesel exhaust systems have to inject urea into the exhaust gasses ahead of the catalytic converter. The urea solution is kept in a small reservoir and is topped up during regular servicing.

The urea solution is 32.5% urea in demineralised water, and to be effective needs to be of very high purity, so it is quite expensive stuff. It is sold in Europe and Australia as 'AdBlue'; I think they have a different trade name in the US. It breaks down in the hot exhaust to provide ammonia, which in turn reduces the oxides of nitrogen in the catalytic converter to water and N₂.

VW massively reduced the frequency of such top-ups (and hence reduced the frequency of services required) by turning this system off when not running under test conditions.

Apparently lots of people were wondering how they had managed to meet the EPA standards with a urea-less system. Now we know.

 

[Bronzeage]

Audi is VW, so no other automakers, just diesel versions from VW.

- - - Updated - - -

So it becomes less reliable? that's even worse.

What I read said the emissions system in question would wear out too soon.

you mean catalytic converter?

To get sufficient reductions in NO_x, most lean burning, low soot diesel exhaust systems have to inject urea into the exhaust gasses ahead of the catalytic converter. The urea solution is kept in a small reservoir and is topped up during regular servicing.

The urea solution is 32.5% urea in demineralised water, and to be effective needs to be of very high purity, so it is quite expensive stuff. It is sold in Europe and Australia as 'AdBlue'; I think they have a different trade name in the US. It breaks down in the hot exhaust to provide ammonia, which in turn reduces the oxides of nitrogen in the catalytic converter to water and N₂.

VW massively reduced the frequency of such top-ups (and hence reduced the frequency of services required) by turning this system off when not running under test conditions.

Apparently lots of people were wondering how they had managed to meet the EPA standards with a urea-less system. Now we know.

It must be the pure water that's expensive, because urea can be mass produced by unskilled labor.

 

[bilby]

Audi is VW, so no other automakers, just diesel versions from VW.

- - - Updated - - -

So it becomes less reliable? that's even worse.

What I read said the emissions system in question would wear out too soon.

you mean catalytic converter?

To get sufficient reductions in NO_x, most lean burning, low soot diesel exhaust systems have to inject urea into the exhaust gasses ahead of the catalytic converter. The urea solution is kept in a small reservoir and is topped up during regular servicing.

The urea solution is 32.5% urea in demineralised water, and to be effective needs to be of very high purity, so it is quite expensive stuff. It is sold in Europe and Australia as 'AdBlue'; I think they have a different trade name in the US. It breaks down in the hot exhaust to provide ammonia, which in turn reduces the oxides of nitrogen in the catalytic converter to water and N₂.

VW massively reduced the frequency of such top-ups (and hence reduced the frequency of services required) by turning this system off when not running under test conditions.

Apparently lots of people were wondering how they had managed to meet the EPA standards with a urea-less system. Now we know.

It must be the pure water that's expensive, because urea can be mass produced by unskilled labor.

If only.

 

[aeebee50]

Sad, I thought the VW bug looked good.

 

[ZiprHead]

Audi is VW, so no other automakers, just diesel versions from VW.

Yup. You want to save 10 grand on an Audi TT, buy a Golf GTI. They're the same car.

 

[ZiprHead]

I heard the VW CEO is walking away with a 28 million dollar golden parachute. That's the way to fall up, I tells ya.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Audi is VW, so no other automakers, just diesel versions from VW.

- - - Updated - - -

So it becomes less reliable? that's even worse.

What I read said the emissions system in question would wear out too soon.

you mean catalytic converter?

No--the systems that are only being switched on when they're needed to defeat the test. I forget what it's called, there's a bunch of emissions stuff on diesels that gasoline engines don't need.

- - - Updated - - -

Audi is VW, so no other automakers, just diesel versions from VW.

- - - Updated - - -

So it becomes less reliable? that's even worse.

What I read said the emissions system in question would wear out too soon.

you mean catalytic converter?

To get sufficient reductions in NO_x, most lean burning, low soot diesel exhaust systems have to inject urea into the exhaust gasses ahead of the catalytic converter. The urea solution is kept in a small reservoir and is topped up during regular servicing.

The urea solution is 32.5% urea in demineralised water, and to be effective needs to be of very high purity, so it is quite expensive stuff. It is sold in Europe and Australia as 'AdBlue'; I think they have a different trade name in the US. It breaks down in the hot exhaust to provide ammonia, which in turn reduces the oxides of nitrogen in the catalytic converter to water and N₂.

VW massively reduced the frequency of such top-ups (and hence reduced the frequency of services required) by turning this system off when not running under test conditions.

Apparently lots of people were wondering how they had managed to meet the EPA standards with a urea-less system. Now we know.

Some of the cars in question don't even have the urea-injection system.

- - - Updated - - -

It must be the pure water that's expensive, because urea can be mass produced by unskilled labor.

Routine, cheap ingredients at high purity are generally expensive.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Audi is VW, so no other automakers, just diesel versions from VW.

- - - Updated - - -

So it becomes less reliable? that's even worse.

What I read said the emissions system in question would wear out too soon.

you mean catalytic converter?

No--the systems that are only being switched on when they're needed to defeat the test. I forget what it's called, there's a bunch of emissions stuff on diesels that gasoline engines don't need.

- - - Updated - - -

Audi is VW, so no other automakers, just diesel versions from VW.

- - - Updated - - -

So it becomes less reliable? that's even worse.

What I read said the emissions system in question would wear out too soon.

you mean catalytic converter?

To get sufficient reductions in NO_x, most lean burning, low soot diesel exhaust systems have to inject urea into the exhaust gasses ahead of the catalytic converter. The urea solution is kept in a small reservoir and is topped up during regular servicing.

The urea solution is 32.5% urea in demineralised water, and to be effective needs to be of very high purity, so it is quite expensive stuff. It is sold in Europe and Australia as 'AdBlue'; I think they have a different trade name in the US. It breaks down in the hot exhaust to provide ammonia, which in turn reduces the oxides of nitrogen in the catalytic converter to water and N₂.

VW massively reduced the frequency of such top-ups (and hence reduced the frequency of services required) by turning this system off when not running under test conditions.

Apparently lots of people were wondering how they had managed to meet the EPA standards with a urea-less system. Now we know.

Some of the cars in question don't even have the urea-injection system.

- - - Updated - - -

It must be the pure water that's expensive, because urea can be mass produced by unskilled labor.

Routine, cheap ingredients at high purity are generally expensive.

That, and this article:

The man who discovered the Volkswagen emissions scandal

make me think we should test other cars by other car makers the same way. We should test them under actual driving conditions and not in a garage.

Speaking to Wake Up To Money on BBC Radio 5 live, Mr. German revealed he had told VW about his findings in May 2014, but the company had failed to fix the problem.

He now thinks cars produced by other brands should be investigated for the emissions-cheating "defeat device" software found in some VWs.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The man who discovered the Volkswagen emissions scandal

make me think we should test other cars by other car makers the same way. We should test them under actual driving conditions and not in a garage.

I think we should continue to garage test--it's more accurate. We should also use a limited road test to make sure the road behavior is consistent with the garage behavior, though.

 

[angelo]

So far, and I have no reason to believe other car manufactures would scoop to the same level of deceit as VW has, while chasing world number one auto maker title. I think no other manufacturer's product would fail such a test.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

So far, and I have no reason to believe other car manufactures would scoop to the same level of deceit as VW has, while chasing world number one auto maker title. I think no other manufacturer's product would fail such a test.

Sarcasm? There has got to be more that two people who think other car manufacturers are doing the same thing. I agree with German and the thrust of the article that testing under real world driving conditions needs to be undertaken. VW got caught is all. Every car model needn't be tested. Random testing, like drug testing can be done. We may be seeing the tip of the iceberg.

 

[angelo]

If other manufactures had done the same thing, it would be known by now. A BMW was tested here recently by the local road patrol, and it was found to be as clean as the manufacturer claimed. VW were chasing market leadership, pure and simply. To get that leadership, they had to double the sales they have in the US .