What Do Men Think It Means To Be A Man?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

So, back to the actual OP question, what I think it means to be a man (and I fall way short of many):

1. Respect all others
2. Help all that need or ask for it to the best of your ability
3. Take pride in your work and humility in your praise from others
4. Act always for the common good
5. Protect and fight against injustice
6. Understand that strength of mind, strength of character and strength of spirit doesn’t come from a gym
7. Behave the same way alone as you would in a crowd

Really good list. I'd add "always stick up for the underdog"

This is a list of how to be a good person.

No shit.

It has nothing to do with being a man.

Men aren’t people?

Being a man doesn't mean being a good person.

Revealing.

Confusing this with "being a man" or otherwise associating it with gender is an opening for misogyny, even though that is clearly not your intention.

Even more revealing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

RVonse (one side of mouth): Look, it is evolution baby, men are wired like that.

Not just the men Jimmy. I think the women are wired like that too. Its the result of our evolution of the successful ancestors who reproduced.

RVonse (other side of mouth): Women are exaggerating, it just isn't common.

What Trump got away with is very uncommon. No average guy has that kind of power. The average guy isnt in a position to even be able to pull off what Trump did.

And the talking out of both sides of your mouth? That would be a women who wants to be pursued in a relationship but who is also deeply offended when approached by the wrong guy.

See... he just did it again, even after being called on it. Sad!

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

See... he just did it again, even after being called on it. Sad!

Those aren't mutually exclusive statements.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Men aren’t people?

Men aren't necessarily good people, nor are good people necessarily men. Being a better person doesn't make a man more male. So no, this list isn't what it means to be a man. An opposite list is just as descriptive, and this list is just as advisable for women as for men. Being good or bad isn't based on gender, and to link it to gender only invites trouble.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

See... he just did it again, even after being called on it. Sad!

Those aren't mutually exclusive statements.

We are wired that way because of evolution, but it rarely ever happens. Those two claims conflict. You can't say it is common (we are wired that way) and uncommon (women exaggerate).

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

We are wired that way because of evolution, but it rarely ever happens. Those two claims conflict.

That people are genetically programmed to do something doesn't mean they will ever have the opportunity to do it. Not mutually exclusive.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We are wired that way because of evolution, but it rarely ever happens. Those two claims conflict.

That people are genetically programmed to do something doesn't mean they will ever have the opportunity to do it. Not mutually exclusive.

Women are complaining that it isn't uncommon.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Being a better person doesn't make a man more male.

“More male”? What the fuck are you babbling about?

So no, this list isn't what it means to be a man.

To you.

Being good or bad isn't based on gender

This isn’t Santa’s list. These are all qualities of what I believe a man should embody. Women as well. It is neither exhuastive nor intended to be.

Make your own list. Try to go beyond, “Have a penis.”

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

We are wired that way because of evolution, but it rarely ever happens. Those two claims conflict.

That people are genetically programmed to do something doesn't mean they will ever have the opportunity to do it. Not mutually exclusive.

Women are complaining that it isn't uncommon.

I think you need clarify what you are responding to and what you are claiming he is contradicting himself about. You were responding to his writing about what Trump got away with. Women are not complaining that the average guy is doing that, as far as I can tell.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

These are all qualities of what I believe a man should embody. Women as well.

Do you mean that's how you think people (men and women) should behave? That's not what you said. You said that's what you

think it means to be a man

I see a difference between the two.

 

[laughing dog]

Women are complaining that it isn't uncommon.

I think you need clarify what you are responding to and what you are claiming he is contradicting himself about. You were responding to his writing about what Trump got away with. Women are not complaining that the average guy is doing that, as far as I can tell.

Women are complaining that this type of behavior is all too common. One reason the metoo movement resonates with women is that almost every single one of them can tell you they have experienced some form of sexual harassment or assault. Which strongly suggest to the mentally aware that the problem goes way beyond a small portion of men.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Women are complaining that it isn't uncommon.

I think you need clarify what you are responding to...

I quoted everything quite effectively.

and what you are claiming he is contradicting himself about.

I did that as well.

You were responding to his writing about what Trump got away with.

It may be best to read what I was posting and posting in response to directly.

Women are not complaining that the average guy is doing that, as far as I can tell.

Women are complaining that sexual harassment is much more common that men say it is.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Women are complaining that this type of behavior is all too common.

That most men are doing what Trump did, walking into supermodel dressing rooms etc isn't a common complaint. Experiencing some form of sexual harassment or assault is not an uncommon complaint.

Which strongly suggest to the mentally aware that the problem goes way beyond a small portion of men.

Actually, no, that doesn't follow. It could be small portion of men doing a whole lot of this behaviour.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It may be best to read what I was posting and posting in response to directly.

Ok, we can do that.

Men are men mostly because of the testosterone and the successful ones figure out early what it takes to reproduce. The last thing your girlfriend wants is for you to start acting more feminine. And most guys learned from experience nice guys really do end up in last place when it comes to what women really want. Nonetheless I have read other places that masculinity is actually falling dramatically. They say testosterone and sperm counts today are 1/2 what they were a generation ago. Probably due to processed foods but not the "me too" movement though.

Ok, that is less grasp at straws and more or less just going for it. And talking out of both sides of your mouth.

RVonse (one side of mouth): Look, it is evolution baby, men are wired like that.
RVonse (other side of mouth): Women are exaggerating, it just isn't common.

He appears to be saying that men have been programmed to act a certain way by evolution, and that women are programmed to desire them to act that way, but that it is changing over time in the men due to changes in modern times. What's mutually exclusive about that? It sounds nuanced, not contradictor or talking out of both sides of his mouth. If RVonse is right, then we would expect less such behaviour today from men than in the past and more women than in the past frustrated for the lack of it. There's something we could actually examine to see if he is right or wrong.

 

[RVonse]

Those aren't mutually exclusive statements. We are wired that way because of evolution, but it rarely ever happens. Those two claims conflict. You can't say it is common (we are wired that way) and uncommon (women exaggerate).

But I did not say that. I said the average man does not have the power Trump or a celebrity has over a women. Therefore the pussy march goes completely over what most men relate to and means little to them.

And I never said women exaggerate. But even if I had made your statement above, that statement above is still NOT in conflict. The biological fact men and women are wired for reproduction does not preclude we do not rape each other all the time as does the rest of the animal kingdom. It is because the cognitive section of our brain is capable of putting down some of our most non social impulses. So we can argue which of the impulses should be non social enough not to display. But there can not be any argument that we are not wired to reproduce. Both men AND women.

 

[RVonse]

Women are complaining that it isn't uncommon.

I think you need clarify what you are responding to and what you are claiming he is contradicting himself about. You were responding to his writing about what Trump got away with. Women are not complaining that the average guy is doing that, as far as I can tell.

Women are complaining that this type of behavior is all too common. One reason the metoo movement resonates with women is that almost every single one of them can tell you they have experienced some form of sexual harassment or assault. Which strongly suggest to the mentally aware that the problem goes way beyond a small portion of men.

I am not a woman so I will assume you know what you are talking about. That there are many men that go too far.

If that is the case, then I would:
1. Live in a safe neighborhood
2. Learn martial arts (and kick the shit out of the perpetrator)
3. Pack a gun as a last resort

But what I would not do is go on a pussy march to convince men to start behaving more like women. It won't work.

 

[starwater]

Women are complaining that this type of behavior is all too common. One reason the metoo movement resonates with women is that almost every single one of them can tell you they have experienced some form of sexual harassment or assault. Which strongly suggest to the mentally aware that the problem goes way beyond a small portion of men.

I am not a woman so I will assume you know what you are talking about. That there are many men that go too far.

If that is the case, then I would:
1. Live in a safe neighborhood
2. Learn martial arts (and kick the shit out of the perpetrator)
3. Pack a gun as a last resort

But what I would not do is go on a pussy march to convince men to start behaving more like women. It won't work.

Women don't want men to behave more like women they want them to behave like decent human beings and evolve to a higher level. We just want respect.

Not all women like men aggressive and come on approach. I know many women who are very attracted to the passive type.

 

[laughing dog]

Women are complaining that this type of behavior is all too common.

That most men are doing what Trump did, walking into supermodel dressing rooms etc isn't a common complaint. Experiencing some form of sexual harassment or assault is not an uncommon complaint.

Trump has done a lot more than walking into a supermodel's dressing room that falls into the sexual harassment or acting like a fucking pig category.

Actually, no, that doesn't follow. It could be small portion of men doing a whole lot of this behaviour.

This recent poll gives an estimate of 81% of women have experienced some form of sexual harassment (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/21/587671849/a-new-survey-finds-eighty-percent-of-women-have-experienced-sexual-harassment). As I said, it strongly suggests to the mentally aware that the problem goes way beyond a small portion of men.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

These are all qualities of what I believe a man should embody. Women as well.

Do you mean that's how you think people (men and women) should behave?

No, I think that's what a man should embody. Women too. Hence my use of that word to clarify it for you, because of your bizarre need to use pedantry as a smokescreen.

I see a difference between the two.

Bully for you. Who gives a shit?

 

[laughing dog]

Women are complaining that this type of behavior is all too common. One reason the metoo movement resonates with women is that almost every single one of them can tell you they have experienced some form of sexual harassment or assault. Which strongly suggest to the mentally aware that the problem goes way beyond a small portion of men.

I am not a woman so I will assume you know what you are talking about. That there are many men that go too far.

If that is the case, then I would:
1. Live in a safe neighborhood
2. Learn martial arts (and kick the shit out of the perpetrator)
3. Pack a gun as a last resort

Sexual harassment occurs in safe neighborhoods. Beating someone up or shooting them for sexual harassment will probably land the person in prison.

But what I would not do is go on a pussy march to convince men to start behaving more like women. It won't work.

Depends by what one means by "work". If it empowers more women to stand against the behavior and call out the assholes, then it works. If it changes the attitude of some men, it works.