What does it mean for something to be "logically possible"?

[untermensche]

Go ahead and count it. Start with last year as year # 1.

The year before would be year #2.

The year before would be year # 3.

If there is no beginning.

Indeed.

The amount of years is without end.

No, it is without beginning.

Counting the amount clearly has a beginning.

Year #1.

But the counting has no end.

Time without beginning describes an AMOUNT of time that never passes.

 

[beero1000]

This is particularly hard to comprehend due to it's status as utter drivel.

Go ahead and count it. Start with last year as year # 1.

The year before would be year #2.

The year before would be year # 3.

If there is no beginning. The amount of years is without end.

That you see it as drivel is your problem.

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To be "always passing" means that before every moment in time an amount of time that never begins or ends has passed.

FTFY.

You didn't change it at all.

It is still the same amount of time.

That you don't understand you have made no change to the amount of time is your problem.

Everyone can tell you're fucking with the definitions when you insist your 'beginning' is 'last year'.

 

[George S]

This is particularly hard to comprehend due to it's status as utter drivel.

- - - Updated - - -

Hold up there Pokey. Planck calculated minimum time.

Therefore time cannot be divided infinitely.

No; Therefore time cannot be observed at an arbitrarily small scale. Whether it can be divided infinitely is therefore impossible to determine experimentally.

Time, untermensche, does not, in any sense, "end" at "now." The word "past" is an invented term. It describes what we see. And the farther away we see it in space it is also farther away in time. And there is, in fact, a point beyond which we cannot see!

It is logically possible that spacetime along with energy (photons and matter) is that-which-just-is. If there were no that-which-just-is there would be nothing.
"Logically possible" is sometimes nonsense. It is logically possible that a god is that-which-just-is.
It is logically possible that 4000 years ago magic worked . . . by sheer coincidence. And may begin to work tomorrow. So unlikely that it approaches impossible, but possible nonetheless.

 

[Kharakov]

Hold up there Pokey. Planck calculated minimum time.

Therefore time cannot be divided infinitely.

Lol. No, Planck time is not the minimum time, like the Planck length isn't the minimum distance.

We apparently have evidence that if spacetime is discontinuous, it is so at a scale of approximately 10^-11 times the Planck length. They measured the arrivals of high energy gamma rays from a distant GRB, and they arrived close enough together to indicate that any granularity of spacetime is 10^11 times smaller than the Planck length (this doesn't mean there is granularity, just that if it does exist, it is at scales far smaller than the Planck length).

 

[untermensche]

That you don't understand that the AMOUNT tells us NOTHING about whether it ENDS is your problem.

Does an infinitely large pile of rocks have an end to it's size?

What makes you think an infinitely large amount of time could have one?

There is no container that can fit infinite rocks. Any container you build will be too small.

There is no amount of time that can contain infinite time.

 

[bilby]

Indeed.

The amount of years is without end.

No, it is without beginning.

Counting the amount clearly has a beginning.

Sure, if you count backwards, you have time with a beginning and no end. But having inverted every thing, you need to remember that you did that operation, and that you need to reverse all your conclusions too, if they are to be sound.

Year #1.

But the counting has no end.

That's right; in backwards world (which you put is in by declaring that you are starting at the end), there is no end; That's the EXACT same thing as saying 'there is no beginning' in forwards world.

Time without beginning describes an AMOUNT of time that never passes.

No, time without beginning describes an amount of time that never ends in backwards world. We live in forwards world. You have confused yourself, and forgotten to reverse an arbitrary operation that you performed at the beginning of your calculations.

It's a simple and excusable error; but it is an error nevertheless, and once it has been pointed out to you, the adult response is to say "Oh, yes, sorry, I was mistaken". The alternative - going off on a tantrum about how everyone except you is stupid for disagreeing with your erroneous conclusion - is not recommended.

 

[untermensche]

Go ahead and count it. Start with last year as year # 1.

The year before would be year #2.

The year before would be year # 3.

If there is no beginning. The amount of years is without end.

That you see it as drivel is your problem.

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To be "always passing" means that before every moment in time an amount of time that never begins or ends has passed.

FTFY.

You didn't change it at all.

It is still the same amount of time.

That you don't understand you have made no change to the amount of time is your problem.

Everyone can tell you're fucking with the definitions when you insist your 'beginning' is 'last year'.

That is the beginning of the counting.

You simply do not want any counting to take place. You don't even want to try to count the amount of time contained in time with no beginning.

Your religion forbids any such counting.

 

[bilby]

That you don't understand that the AMOUNT tells us NOTHING about whether it ENDS is your problem.

Does an infinitely large pile of rocks have an end to it's size?

Sure, as long as it has no beginning.

What makes you think an infinitely large amount of time could have one?

Well, the simplest way would be to have no beginning.

There is no container that can fit infinite rocks. Any container you build will be too small.

That's true. But one that is infinitely deep will contain infinite rocks, even if it is finitely tall.

There is no amount of time that can contain infinite time.

Sure there is - Infinite time.

 

[untermensche]

Indeed.

The amount of years is without end.

No, it is without beginning.

Counting the amount clearly has a beginning.

Sure, if you count backwards, you have time with a beginning and no end. But having inverted every thing, you need to remember that you did that operation, and that you need to reverse all your conclusions too, if they are to be sound.

Now you are claiming to count something is to invert it.

Go ahead try it.

Try to count the years contained in the phrase "time without beginning".

It clearly shows that time with no beginning is an amount of time that never ends.

 

[beero1000]

Go ahead and count it. Start with last year as year # 1.

The year before would be year #2.

The year before would be year # 3.

If there is no beginning. The amount of years is without end.

That you see it as drivel is your problem.

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To be "always passing" means that before every moment in time an amount of time that never begins or ends has passed.

FTFY.

You didn't change it at all.

It is still the same amount of time.

That you don't understand you have made no change to the amount of time is your problem.

Everyone can tell you're fucking with the definitions when you insist your 'beginning' is 'last year'.

That is the beginning of the counting.

You simply do not want any counting to take place. You don't even want to try to count the amount of time contained in time with no beginning.

Your religion forbids any such counting.

So the counting has no end, why does that mean the time interval has no end? I can count things in any order I want - that doesn't force any ordering on the thing at all.

 

[untermensche]

Does an infinitely large pile of rocks have an end to it's size?

Sure, as long as it has no beginning.

What does that even mean?

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Go ahead and count it. Start with last year as year # 1.

The year before would be year #2.

The year before would be year # 3.

If there is no beginning. The amount of years is without end.

That you see it as drivel is your problem.

- - - Updated - - -

To be "always passing" means that before every moment in time an amount of time that never begins or ends has passed.

FTFY.

You didn't change it at all.

It is still the same amount of time.

That you don't understand you have made no change to the amount of time is your problem.

Everyone can tell you're fucking with the definitions when you insist your 'beginning' is 'last year'.

That is the beginning of the counting.

You simply do not want any counting to take place. You don't even want to try to count the amount of time contained in time with no beginning.

Your religion forbids any such counting.

So the counting has no end, why does that mean the time interval has no end? I can count things in any order I want - that doesn't force any ordering on the thing at all.

You are counting the amount of time.

If the count never ends you are talking about an amount of time that never ends.

 

[bilby]

Indeed.

The amount of years is without end.

No, it is without beginning.

Counting the amount clearly has a beginning.

Sure, if you count backwards, you have time with a beginning and no end. But having inverted every thing, you need to remember that you did that operation, and that you need to reverse all your conclusions too, if they are to be sound.

Now you are claiming to count something is to invert it.

No, I am observing that you inverted the past before you attempted to count it.

Go ahead try it.

Try to count the years contained in the phrase "time without beginning".

They are infinite. Which means that they are uncountable.

Nobody is disputing this.

It clearly shows that time with no beginning is an amount of time that never ends.

...when counted backwards; And therefore never begins if counted forwards.

 

[George S]

Indeed.

The amount of years is without end.

No, it is without beginning.

Counting the amount clearly has a beginning.

Year #1.

But the counting has no end.

Time without beginning describes an AMOUNT of time that never passes.

This discussion is all moot. Reality according to most physicists had a time zero. That means that if infinite, time has a smallest value but not a largest.

Is it logically possible to have an eternal time? Well, yes. But maybe only in an alternate universe since ours seems to have a zero point of time.

In the fantasy world of eternal time, infinite time can pass -- must pass -- before now.

 

[beero1000]

So the counting has no end, why does that mean the time interval has no end? I can count things in any order I want - that doesn't force any ordering on the thing at all.

You are counting the amount of time.

If the count never ends you are talking about an amount of time that never ends.

Seriously?

I count the minutes in an hour like this 7:59, 7:58, 7:57, ... , 7:02, 7:01, 7:00 so therefore the hour from 7:00 to 8:00 ends at 7:00?

You can't possibly be that stupid.

 

[bilby]

Sure, as long as it has no beginning.

What does that even mean?

Exactly what it says.

- - - Updated - - -

Go ahead and count it. Start with last year as year # 1.

The year before would be year #2.

The year before would be year # 3.

If there is no beginning. The amount of years is without end.

That you see it as drivel is your problem.

- - - Updated - - -

To be "always passing" means that before every moment in time an amount of time that never begins or ends has passed.

FTFY.

You didn't change it at all.

It is still the same amount of time.

That you don't understand you have made no change to the amount of time is your problem.

Everyone can tell you're fucking with the definitions when you insist your 'beginning' is 'last year'.

That is the beginning of the counting.

You simply do not want any counting to take place. You don't even want to try to count the amount of time contained in time with no beginning.

Your religion forbids any such counting.

So the counting has no end, why does that mean the time interval has no end? I can count things in any order I want - that doesn't force any ordering on the thing at all.

You are counting the amount of time.

If the count never ends you are talking about an amount of time that never ends. is infinite.

FTFY.

Now all you need to do is to show that 'infinite' always implies 'without end'; But unfortunately, that's not true, so you can't, so you remain wrong.

Infinite means uncountable. This tells us nothing about ends or beginnings; However the absence of one (or both) can render a series uncountable and therefore infinite.

Time without end is infinite; But that does not imply that time that is infinite is without end.

Minnows are fish, but fish are not necessarily minnows.

 

[untermensche]

You are counting the amount of time.

If the count never ends you are talking about an amount of time that never ends.

Seriously?

I count the minutes in an hour like this 7:59, 7:58, 7:57, ... , 7:02, 7:01, 7:00 so therefore the hour from 7:00 to 8:00 ends at 7:00?

You can't possibly be that stupid.

So you just ignore everything said before?

Early Alzheimer's?

Or is it your religion again and it's prohibition against counting?

One more time. Let us count the years in the past in time with no beginning.

The last year is year #1 in our count, the year before that is year #2, and so on.......

If time never began then our counting of the years will never end.

Years that never end is an amount of time that never ends.

 

[untermensche]

Indeed.

The amount of years is without end.

No, it is without beginning.

Counting the amount clearly has a beginning.

Year #1.

But the counting has no end.

Time without beginning describes an AMOUNT of time that never passes.

This discussion is all moot...

Logical arguments do not become moot.

It is impossible that time had no beginning.

Time with no beginning is an amount of time with no end. Go ahead and count it if you don't believe me.

It is impossible that time with no end occurred before any moment.

 

[bilby]

Indeed.

The amount of years is without end.

No, it is without beginning.

Counting the amount clearly has a beginning.

Year #1.

But the counting has no end.

Time without beginning describes an AMOUNT of time that never passes.

This discussion is all moot. Reality according to most physicists had a time zero.

No, not reality; The universe. And so what? We are not talking about the universe, we are talking about time.

That means that if infinite, time has a smallest value but not a largest.

Is it logically possible to have an eternal time? Well, yes. But maybe only in an alternate universe since ours seems to have a zero point of time.

In the fantasy world of eternal time, infinite time can pass -- must pass -- before now.

Whether or not it is a 'fantasy world' is open for debate; But it's off topic in this thread, which is about logical possibilities, not the observable universe.

 

[beero1000]

Seriously?

I count the minutes in an hour like this 7:59, 7:58, 7:57, ... , 7:02, 7:01, 7:00 so therefore the hour from 7:00 to 8:00 ends at 7:00?

You can't possibly be that stupid.

So you just ignore everything said before?

Early Alzheimer's?

Or is it your religion again and it's prohibition against counting?

One more time. Let us count the years in the past in time with no beginning.

The last year is year #1 in our count, the year before that is year #2, and so on.......

If time never began then our counting of the years will never end.

Years that never end is an amount of time that never ends.

Your argument has this form:
1) I can count the time in this interval in this way.
2) My count has this end property
3) Therefore the time in this interval has the same end property.

Using the same steps, we conclude that the hour from 7:00 to 8:00 ends at 7:00.

 

[untermensche]

What does that even mean?

Exactly what it says.

You talked about rocks with no beginning.

What is that? Where would we find such rocks?

If the count never ends you are talking about an amount of time that never ends. is infinite.

FTFY.

Now all you need to do is to show that 'infinite' always implies 'without end';

All you have to do is try to count it.

Count the time in the past with no beginning.

What is the amount? Does the amount end or does it not end?