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What happened to the Black owned business dream?

Doesn't the US government give loans to immigrants to buy up gas stations and such so they can write home about how great America is and how they "made it" here. I don't begrudge those people their good fortune and they are not doing anything illegal, but it seems if we can do it for people from Pakistan or India why can't we give the government loans to our own minority groups that the banks won't loan money to but who are people nevertheless well educated and able?
 
Eh, not really a convincing explanation. Many groups have come to the US with essentially no wealth either, and have managed to accumulate quite a bit of it.

Yup. My former boss started with nothing. He built a business doing about $30 million/year before he was out of it medically.
LP Anecdotal Evidence!

BINGO!!!
 
Lack of wealth. Black women are actually good at startingm small business, but generally have little to no wealth to expand it very far.

Eh, not really a convincing explanation. Many groups have come to the US with essentially no wealth either, and have managed to accumulate quite a bit of it.

Correction: many INDIVIDUALS come to the U.S. with essentially no wealth. Building connections with the wealthy gives them access to wealth they would eventually need themselves. This actually HAS happened with many black-owned businesses and business empires, just not as often as, say, polish businesses or Jewish businesses or korean businesses. Part of it has to do with the fact that many black entrepreneurs suffer from a fatal lack of imagination and don't want to start anything other than a beauty shop, a liquor store, or a barbecue restaurant, any of which have a pretty limited (if any) growth potential.

OTOH, if you're trying to open a bar that plays the best live blues anywhere and sells out shows every single weekend, you might not even give a shit about growing the business and just be happy the place pays the bills, gives you a comfortable living, and gives you an excuse to listen to live blues every night if your life. Don't know about you guys, but that's a black-owned business dream I could get behind...
 
I have no doubt many come here with nothing.

I also have no doubt many come here with a lot of money backing them. Do you really think these people can, soon after arrival, spend $150,000 on a convenience store or gas station without financial backing?
 
Lack of wealth. Black women are actually good at startingm small business, but generally have little to no wealth to expand it very far.

Eh, not really a convincing explanation. Many groups have come to the US with essentially no wealth either, and have managed to accumulate quite a bit of it.

And you think those groups have been and are being treated the same as black people?
 
Black people own businesses, always have, and always will. I work for myself, my sister works for herself, Poppa was a police officer, but he also has a floor cleaning business. I could go on. Most black people I know have, at some period in their work lives, had side businesses, some bigger than others. If you know black people, you already know this. If you don't know this, it's because you don't know black people. If you don't know black people yet consider yourself to have some degree of expertise on the behaviors and practices of black people, you don't have the expertise you think you have.
 
Eh, not really a convincing explanation. Many groups have come to the US with essentially no wealth either, and have managed to accumulate quite a bit of it.

And you think those groups have been and are being treated the same as black people?

It depends on the group. Some experienced practically nothing comparable to what black people experience, others experienced something similar but not to the same extent. In any event, it seems like you are agreeing with me that the explanation of little or no starting wealth being is not an adequate explanatory factor, since you are explicitly referencing other factors.
 
And you think those groups have been and are being treated the same as black people?

It depends on the group. Some experienced practically nothing comparable to what black people experience, others experienced something similar but not to the same extent. In any event, it seems like you are agreeing with me that the explanation of little or no starting wealth being is not an adequate explanatory factor, since you are explicitly referencing other factors.

I can think of a grand total of one group that experienced the same (or worse) than black people in the US, to be totally honest...
 
It depends on the group. Some experienced practically nothing comparable to what black people experience, others experienced something similar but not to the same extent. In any event, it seems like you are agreeing with me that the explanation of little or no starting wealth being is not an adequate explanatory factor, since you are explicitly referencing other factors.

I can think of a grand total of one group that experienced the same (or worse) than black people in the US, to be totally honest...

The Irish?
 
It depends on the group. Some experienced practically nothing comparable to what black people experience, others experienced something similar but not to the same extent. In any event, it seems like you are agreeing with me that the explanation of little or no starting wealth being is not an adequate explanatory factor, since you are explicitly referencing other factors.

I can think of a grand total of one group that experienced the same (or worse) than black people in the US, to be totally honest...

I can't think of any group of immigrants who experienced it worse than black people. I can think of several groups that experienced something similar, although not the same.
 
To be fair, Japanese Americans did have a brief and horrific episode of internment during World War II, but the severity and duration of that situation were far, far less in scope.
 
To be fair, Japanese Americans did have a brief and horrific episode of internment during World War II, but the severity and duration of that situation were far, far less in scope.

Immigrants from Asia had a pretty tough time besides World War II. In fact, I would have rather been in an interment camp in WWII than being a Chinese immigrant laborer during the Gold Rush in California, let's say. Consider:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_Americans#California_Gold_Rush

In 1852, a special foreign miner's tax aimed at the Chinese was passed by the California legislature that was aimed at foreign miners who were not U.S. citizens. Given that the Chinese were ineligible for citizenship at that time and constituted the largest percentage of the non-white population, the taxes were primarily aimed at them and tax revenue was therefore generated almost exclusively by the Chinese.[37] This tax required a payment of three dollars each month at a time when Chinese miners were making approximately six dollars a month. Tax collectors could legally take and sell the property of those miners who refused or could not pay the tax. Fake tax collectors made money by taking advantage of people who could not speak English well, and some tax collectors, both false and real, stabbed or shot miners who could not or would not pay the tax. During the 1860s, many Chinese were expelled from the mine fields and forced to find other jobs. The Foreign Miner's Tax existed until 1870.[40]

The position of the Chinese gold seekers also was complicated by a decision of the California Supreme Court, which decided, in the case The People of the State of California v. George W. Hall in 1854 that the Chinese were not allowed to testify as witnesses before the court in California against white citizens, including those accused of murder. The decision was largely based upon the prevailing opinion that the Chinese were:

“ ... a race of people whom nature has marked as inferior, and who are incapable of progress or intellectual development beyond a certain point, as their history has shown; differing in language, opinions, color, and physical conformation; between whom and ourselves nature has placed an impassable difference" and as such had no right " to swear away the life of a citizen" or participate" with us in administering the affairs of our Government.[41] ”

The ruling effectively made white violence against Chinese Americans unprosecutable, arguably leading to more intense white-on-Chinese race riots, such as the 1877 San Francisco Riot. The Chinese living in California were with this decision left practically in a legal vacuum, because they had now no possibility to assert their rightful legal entitlements or claims – possibly in cases of theft or breaches of agreement – in court. The ruling remained in force until 1873.[42]
 
I can think of a grand total of one group that experienced the same (or worse) than black people in the US, to be totally honest...
Criminals who are criminals because of socioeconomic conditions?
 
And you think those groups have been and are being treated the same as black people?

It depends on the group. Some experienced practically nothing comparable to what black people experience, others experienced something similar but not to the same extent. In any event, it seems like you are agreeing with me that the explanation of little or no starting wealth being is not an adequate explanatory factor, since you are explicitly referencing other factors.

Exactly what group of immigrants do you think experienced something similar to what black people experienced--or are experiencing today?
 
Immigrants from Asia had a pretty tough time besides World War II. In fact, I would have rather been in an interment camp in WWII than being a Chinese immigrant laborer during the Gold Rush in California, let's say. Consider:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_Americans#California_Gold_Rush

In 1852, a special foreign miner's tax aimed at the Chinese was passed by the California legislature that was aimed at foreign miners who were not U.S. citizens. Given that the Chinese were ineligible for citizenship at that time and constituted the largest percentage of the non-white population, the taxes were primarily aimed at them and tax revenue was therefore generated almost exclusively by the Chinese.[37] This tax required a payment of three dollars each month at a time when Chinese miners were making approximately six dollars a month. Tax collectors could legally take and sell the property of those miners who refused or could not pay the tax. Fake tax collectors made money by taking advantage of people who could not speak English well, and some tax collectors, both false and real, stabbed or shot miners who could not or would not pay the tax. During the 1860s, many Chinese were expelled from the mine fields and forced to find other jobs. The Foreign Miner's Tax existed until 1870.[40]

The position of the Chinese gold seekers also was complicated by a decision of the California Supreme Court, which decided, in the case The People of the State of California v. George W. Hall in 1854 that the Chinese were not allowed to testify as witnesses before the court in California against white citizens, including those accused of murder. The decision was largely based upon the prevailing opinion that the Chinese were:

“ ... a race of people whom nature has marked as inferior, and who are incapable of progress or intellectual development beyond a certain point, as their history has shown; differing in language, opinions, color, and physical conformation; between whom and ourselves nature has placed an impassable difference" and as such had no right " to swear away the life of a citizen" or participate" with us in administering the affairs of our Government.[41] ”

The ruling effectively made white violence against Chinese Americans unprosecutable, arguably leading to more intense white-on-Chinese race riots, such as the 1877 San Francisco Riot. The Chinese living in California were with this decision left practically in a legal vacuum, because they had now no possibility to assert their rightful legal entitlements or claims – possibly in cases of theft or breaches of agreement – in court. The ruling remained in force until 1873.[42]


The whites could steal, rape, and beat the Chinese but if the Chinese founght back or resisted in any way they were committing a crime against a white person by resisting.
 
Immigrants from Asia had a pretty tough time besides World War II. In fact, I would have rather been in an interment camp in WWII than being a Chinese immigrant laborer during the Gold Rush in California, let's say. Consider:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_Americans#California_Gold_Rush

In 1852, a special foreign miner's tax aimed at the Chinese was passed by the California legislature that was aimed at foreign miners who were not U.S. citizens. Given that the Chinese were ineligible for citizenship at that time and constituted the largest percentage of the non-white population, the taxes were primarily aimed at them and tax revenue was therefore generated almost exclusively by the Chinese.[37] This tax required a payment of three dollars each month at a time when Chinese miners were making approximately six dollars a month. Tax collectors could legally take and sell the property of those miners who refused or could not pay the tax. Fake tax collectors made money by taking advantage of people who could not speak English well, and some tax collectors, both false and real, stabbed or shot miners who could not or would not pay the tax. During the 1860s, many Chinese were expelled from the mine fields and forced to find other jobs. The Foreign Miner's Tax existed until 1870.[40]

The position of the Chinese gold seekers also was complicated by a decision of the California Supreme Court, which decided, in the case The People of the State of California v. George W. Hall in 1854 that the Chinese were not allowed to testify as witnesses before the court in California against white citizens, including those accused of murder. The decision was largely based upon the prevailing opinion that the Chinese were:

“ ... a race of people whom nature has marked as inferior, and who are incapable of progress or intellectual development beyond a certain point, as their history has shown; differing in language, opinions, color, and physical conformation; between whom and ourselves nature has placed an impassable difference" and as such had no right " to swear away the life of a citizen" or participate" with us in administering the affairs of our Government.[41] ”

The ruling effectively made white violence against Chinese Americans unprosecutable, arguably leading to more intense white-on-Chinese race riots, such as the 1877 San Francisco Riot. The Chinese living in California were with this decision left practically in a legal vacuum, because they had now no possibility to assert their rightful legal entitlements or claims – possibly in cases of theft or breaches of agreement – in court. The ruling remained in force until 1873.[42]

Yep. I often see the claim that special considerations, (for example, more lax college admission standards), need to be given to African Americans today because of past discrimination. Fine. Yet, oddly enough we see that Asian Americans (which includes Chinese) are actively and knowingly being discriminated against when it comes to college admissions. 'Splain Lucy.
 
Immigrants from Asia had a pretty tough time besides World War II. In fact, I would have rather been in an interment camp in WWII than being a Chinese immigrant laborer during the Gold Rush in California, let's say. Consider:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_Americans#California_Gold_Rush

Yep. I often see the claim that special considerations, (for example, more lax college admission standards), need to be given to African Americans today because of past discrimination. Fine. Yet, oddly enough we see that Asian Americans (which includes Chinese) are actively and knowingly being discriminated against when it comes to college admissions. 'Splain Lucy.

Wait--you think discrimination against blacks is a thing of the past? In any area?

Unfortunately, not even close.
 
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