What if the shooter had been a christian republican?

[Tom Sawyer]

What bothers me the most is that the response to this from the so-called "moderates" in the atheist community has been tepid at best. When a Christian wants to teach the Bible in school, the howls of outrage can break the internet, but when an atheist kills a family because of their religion, the atheist leaders are nowhere to be found. If they abdicate their responsibilities whenever radicals commit a horrific act in its name, then they can't complain when others say that those radicals are representative of and supported by the community.

 

[Axulus]

Is it your opinion that violent preachments by radical Muslim clerics such as - "Allah commands death for blasphemers" or "Jews deserve to be slaughtered like the pigs they are, they are enemies of Allah" or "In Islam, killing infidel women and children is permitted", have no effect on behavior and attitudes of some Muslims who hold such clerics in high esteem?

How does this in any way, shape, or form follow from what was posted?

Wasn't blame being discussed and whether or not a wider community should apologize and/or condemn violent actions of in an individual who claims to be a member of a group?

Is your main complaint that the calls for apology/condemnation are too general (the irrational calls for all Islamic groups to apologize/condemn the actions) instead of targeted (those Islamic groups that advocates violence or views it as acceptable should apologize/condemn the action), or is your complaint that even the ones that advocate violence or view violence as permissible are not in any way blameworthy?

 

[Rhea]

[I have no idea who these people are. Except Sam Harris, he wrote a book, right?
(maybe they are not so "well known")

Yes, they are well-known, particularly Harris. If all you know about him is that he "wrote a book" you clearly haven't kept up with developments in the atheist community over the years.

- OR - the "atheist community" is perhaps not a thing. Or is not a thing that keeps up with these people. Or these people don't have much visibility to the "atheist community"

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What bothers me the most is that the response to this from the so-called "moderates" in the atheist community has been tepid at best. When a Christian wants to teach the Bible in school, the howls of outrage can break the internet, but when an atheist kills a family because of their religion, the atheist leaders are nowhere to be found. If they abdicate their responsibilities whenever radicals commit a horrific act in its name, then they can't complain when others say that those radicals are representative of and supported by the community.

We have "moderates" in our community? I thought we were all radicals. *swallows bbq'd kitten*

 

[Axulus]

delete

 

[Axulus]

Was he known to make anti-Muslim statements (not anti-Islam) - statements along the lines of "these Muslims all need to be deported, they are infecting our society"?

Do leaders in the atheist community paint Muslims in our society as an infestation/scourge, calling for restrictions/bans on Muslim immigration?

Do leaders in the atheist community advocate treating Muslims as second class citizens, violating their rights, etc.?

"Leader" is not a very good or meaningful term in the atheist community. But there are well-known atheists who make a name for themselves by spewing vitriol at Muslims (Pat Condell), and at least one prominent figure in the Atheist community - Ayaan Hirsi Ali - has done all (or at least most) of the above. And good ole Sam Harris is her #1 defender and apologist, in addition to people on this very forum.

Then isn't it acceptable to ask Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Harris, and Pat Condell to condemn these actions and to take a stand on what actions they consider acceptable vs. unacceptable?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yes, they are well-known, particularly Harris. If all you know about him is that he "wrote a book" you clearly haven't kept up with developments in the atheist community over the years.

- OR - the "atheist community" is perhaps not a thing. Or is not a thing that keeps up with these people. Or these people don't have much visibility to the "atheist community"

What we need is some kind of large, well organized international conspiracy with a clear-cut, radical agenda to undermine civilization like the homosexuals have. That kind of structure would allow us to keep people in line and avoid situations like this.

 

[ksen]

Do you get the virgins if you're killed over a parking spot?

It's your god, ask them.

He said in this case they get hot meter maids.

Have to give props to a god that has three different religions following him.

Yep, he's got it going for sure.

 

[Warpoet]

Is your main complaint that the calls for apology/condemnation are too general (the irrational calls for all Islamic groups to apologize/condemn the actions) instead of targeted (those Islamic groups that advocates violence or views it as acceptable should apologize/condemn the action), or is your complaint that even the ones that advocate violence or view violence as permissible are not in any way blameworthy?

The former.

Then isn't it acceptable to ask Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Harris, and Pat Condell to condemn these actions and to take a stand on what actions they consider acceptable vs. unacceptable?

Debatable. Neither of them advocate violence directly, but they certainly fuel anti-Muslim hostility with their rhetoric. More importantly, however, it certainly wouldn't be acceptable to ask all atheists to apologize, and while "Muslim" represents a more coherent identity than "atheist," it's wrong to ask all Muslims to apologize when their people do it as well.

 

[Axulus]

- OR - the "atheist community" is perhaps not a thing. Or is not a thing that keeps up with these people. Or these people don't have much visibility to the "atheist community"

What we need is some kind of large, well organized international conspiracy with a clear-cut, radical agenda to undermine civilization like the homosexuals have. That kind of structure would allow us to keep people in line and avoid situations like this.

Consider this your formal invitation, I had no idea you weren't yet a member:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbfFAYn8bgc[/youtube]

 

[Warpoet]

- OR - the "atheist community" is perhaps not a thing.

Maybe, but that's a different argument altogether. One could argue that Dawkins and Hitchens are/were not well-known within the "atheist community" by that logic.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

- OR - the "atheist community" is perhaps not a thing.

Maybe, but that's a different argument and entirely beside the point. One could argue that Dawkins and Hitchens are/were not significant within the "atheist community" by that logic.

Who? I know of Dawkins because he sells books, but I know so very little about Hitchens. Maybe it is because I've only been an Atheist for about 30 years.

 

[ksen]

What we need is some kind of large, well organized international conspiracy with a clear-cut, radical agenda to undermine civilization like the homosexuals have. That kind of structure would allow us to keep people in line and avoid situations like this.

Consider this your formal invitation, I had no idea you weren't yet a member:

Understandable, I mean it's hard to tell who's who underneath the Darwin masks and Oxford robes.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe, but that's a different argument and entirely beside the point. One could argue that Dawkins and Hitchens are/were not significant within the "atheist community" by that logic.

Who? I know of Dawkins because he sells books, but I know so very little about Hitchens. Maybe it is because I've only been an Atheist for about 30 years.

hold on, you're a political junkie. how do you only know a little about hitchens?

 

[Warpoet]

hold on, you're a political junkie. how do you only know a little about hitchens?

I assumed he was joking. Whether or not there is any such thing as an "atheist community" is an endless, circular debate that I will not bother getting into. But suffice to say, if we accept that there is such a thing as an atheist community, which was a premise built into the question I was responding to, Dawkins and Hitchens would almost certainly be at the top rung of notoriety, with Harris probably one rung below them, and AHA below him and then Pat Condell somewhere in the middle.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

hold on, you're a political junkie. how do you only know a little about hitchens?

I assumed he was joking. Whether or not there is any such thing as an "atheist community" is an endless, circular debate that I will not bother getting into, but suffice to say, if we accept that there is such a thing as an atheist community, which was a premise built into the question I was responding to, Dawkins and Hitchens would almost certainly be at the top rung of notoriety, with Harris probably one rung below them, and AHA below him and then Pat Condell somewhere in the middle.

I was being serious. I have heard of him, but know very little about him, other than that he is apparently dead.

 

[Earl IV]

It is rather ironic that he talks about someone else's "baseless superstitions" leading to killing people, then he kills three people over... what... a parking spot? I don't think we could find a more baseless reason than that.

Yeah, but we don't know the full details of the story.

Like, after taking his spot, they kicked over his trash can and fucked his dog in front of his children.
every. single. day.

Show

At least that's how he saw it

 

[ksen]

hahaha, atheists don't have kids. You have to be with a real, live woman first.

 

[Sarpedon]

At least the parking spot exists.

Silly as it is, killing over god is sillier.

 

[Metaphor]

hahaha, atheists don't have kids. You have to be with a real, live woman first.

Thank goodness there are no women who are atheists. They could entrap some god-fearing man and then abort his unborn children -- or worse -- raise them to be freethinkers!

 

[ksen]

whoa, calm down