What if the shooter had been a christian republican?

[ksen]

Do you get the virgins if you're killed over a parking spot?

 

[RavenSky]

I don't know, I think I'd prefer their deaths be about their religion and not something as unbelievably trite as a parking space.

You are probably right, but in reality most killings are over something as unbelievably trite as a parking space, or the Flappy Bird game, or football, or a Selfies, or a fart...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do you get the virgins if you're killed over a parking spot?

It's your god, ask them.

Have to give props to a god that has three different religions following him.

 

[Sarpedon]

I think its disingenuous to assume that religion had nothing to do with the aggravating of this conflict.

And I considered posting about this yesterday, but reports were contradictory, so I waited to form an opinion.

 

[Perspicuo]

There is no central tenants of being an Atheist. What was done was awful, but I don't see how that falls to other Atheists.

That's exactly the problem with atheists. Nihilists really −I'm not surprised.
[/devil's advocate]

 

[braces_for_impact]

Even though the facts aren't all out yet, it was heartening to see how quickly the notables in the atheist community condemned such violence in no uncertain terms. Even that bastion of hate-filled anti-muslim super-rage, Sam Harris. (Yes, tongue is firmly in cheek here).

ETA: As to the OP, I don't know the stats for sure, but aren't the shooters usually Christian Republicans?

 

[Warpoet]

I think its disingenuous to assume that religion had nothing to do with the aggravating of this conflict.

It is not now and will probably never be entirely clear. FWIW, his Facebook page, in my opinion, is far more critical of Christianity than Islam. I've seen many, many Facebook pages run by the types I'd actually expect to torch a Mosque or start executing Muslims. His just reads like another would-be intellectual shaking his fist at the world (with the exception of the gun pic).

He is pretty clearly an asshole in general and fucking nuts to boot. That doesn't mean that the victims' Muslimness didn't factor into his decision to execute them, but there's no way of knowing unless he comes out and tells us directly, which he probably won't.

You can bet your ass, though, that if a Muslim with a Facebook page critical of Israel or Judaism shot three Jews in the head you wouldn't see so many people, even here, so quick to accept the claim that it was purely the result of a parking dispute coupled with psychological issues, and that ideology didn't play a role.

 

[Rhea]

You can bet your ass, though, that if a Muslim with all kinds of Facebook posts critical of Israel or Judaism shot three Jews in the head you wouldn't see so many people so quick to accept the claim that it was purely the result of a parking dispute coupled with psychological issues and that ideology didn't play a role.

To be analogous, wouldn't that have to read...

You can bet your ass, though, that if a Muslim with all kinds of Facebook posts critical of Israel or Judaism shot three Jews in the head you wouldn't see so many Muslims so quick to accept the claim that it was purely the result of a parking dispute coupled with psychological issues and that ideology didn't play a role.

'cause, I don't the Muslims or Christians in this case wasted any time at all in applying the "anti-theist crime" to this case...

 

[Warpoet]

To be analogous, wouldn't that have to read...

'cause, I don't the Muslims or Christians in this case wasted any time at all in applying the "anti-theist crime" to this case...

I think you misread.

In any case, yes, Muslims jumped to the conclusion it was a hate crime, some Christians did the same in order to vilify/demonize liberal atheists, and atheists tend to be jumping to the conclusion that it was just a dispute over parking. Who the fuck knows what the exact reason was.

But I stand by my claim that if it had been a Muslim who had killed three Jews you'd see a lot less nuance in how this was being reported and perceived.

 

[Rhea]

To be analogous, wouldn't that have to read...

'cause, I don't the Muslims or Christians in this case wasted any time at all in applying the "anti-theist crime" to this case...

I think you misread.

In any case, yes, Muslims jumped to the conclusion it was a hate crime, some Christians did the same in order to vilify/demonize liberal atheists, and atheists tend to be jumping to the conclusion that it was just a dispute over parking. Who the fuck knows what the exact reason was.

But I stand by my claim that if it had been a Muslim who had killed three Jews you'd see a lot less nuance in how this was being reported and perceived.

I may have misunderstood whether you were talking about the reaction in the media, the reaction of neighbors or the reaction here.
I thought I was seeing you ask why atheists here were so quick to embrace parking only as the motive.

 

[Warpoet]

I may have misunderstood whether you were talking about the reaction in the media, the reaction of neighbors or the reaction here.
I thought I was seeing you ask why atheists here were so quick to embrace parking only as the motive.

I think it's pretty clear why they would, especially given how some here are so keen to collectively blame Muslims when one of them does something like this, or constantly demand that they all condemn and apologize for it.

Based on the evidence, I don't think atheism was that important a factor here, and certainly far less than the fact that the guy is a fucking nutjob. But it's interesting to see how complicated the narrative is or is not allowed to be based on who the perpetrators are.

 

[Trausti]

Based on the evidence, I don't think atheism was that important a factor here, and certainly far less than the fact that the guy is a fucking nutjob. But it's interesting to see how complicated the narrative is or is not allowed to be based on who the perpetrators are.

Well, Atheism has no sacred text providing divine permission or command to kill; like "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Based on the evidence, I don't think atheism was that important a factor here, and certainly far less than the fact that the guy is a fucking nutjob. But it's interesting to see how complicated the narrative is or is not allowed to be based on who the perpetrators are.

Well, Atheism has no sacred text providing divine permission or command to kill; like "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers."

Yeah, all we have to go by are the rules and norms that have developed within society over the last 3000 years. Sure, there is no actual book to cite, but there is a decide track record of everything. For some, that isn't enough. They need a book that has been bathed in blood.

 

[Warpoet]

Well, Atheism has no sacred text providing divine permission or command to kill; like "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers."

Collective blame and oversimplification of a perpetrator's motives does not become any more or less acceptable based on scripture, even if you and others want it to.

 

[Axulus]

Was he known to make anti-Muslim statements (not anti-Islam) - statements along the lines of "these Muslims all need to be deported, they are infecting our society"?

Do leaders in the atheist community paint Muslims in our society as an infestation/scourge, calling for restrictions/bans on Muslim immigration?

Do leaders in the atheist community advocate treating Muslims as second class citizens, violating their rights, etc.?

 

[Warpoet]

Was he known to make anti-Muslim statements (not anti-Islam) - statements along the lines of "these Muslims all need to be deported, they are infecting our society"?

Do leaders in the atheist community paint Muslims in our society as an infestation/scourge, calling for restrictions/bans on Muslim immigration?

Do leaders in the atheist community advocate treating Muslims as second class citizens, violating their rights, etc.?

"Leader" is not a very good or meaningful term in the atheist community. But there are well-known atheists who make a name for themselves by spewing vitriol at Muslims (Pat Condell), and at least one prominent figure in the Atheist community - Ayaan Hirsi Ali - has done all (or at least most) of the above. And good ole Sam Harris is her #1 defender and apologist, in addition to people on this very forum.

 

[Axulus]

I may have misunderstood whether you were talking about the reaction in the media, the reaction of neighbors or the reaction here.
I thought I was seeing you ask why atheists here were so quick to embrace parking only as the motive.

I think it's pretty clear why they would, especially given how some here are so keen to collectively blame Muslims when one of them does something like this, or constantly demand that they all condemn and apologize for it.

Based on the evidence, I don't think atheism was that important a factor here, and certainly far less than the fact that the guy is a fucking nutjob. But it's interesting to see how complicated the narrative is or is not allowed to be based on who the perpetrators are.

Is it your opinion that violent preachments by radical Muslim clerics such as - "Allah commands death for blasphemers" or "Jews deserve to be slaughtered like the pigs they are, they are enemies of Allah" or "In Islam, killing infidel women and children is permitted", have no effect on behavior and attitudes of some Muslims who hold such clerics in high esteem?

 

[Rhea]

Was he known to make anti-Muslim statements (not anti-Islam) - statements along the lines of "these Muslims all need to be deported, they are infecting our society"?

Do leaders in the atheist community paint Muslims in our society as an infestation/scourge, calling for restrictions/bans on Muslim immigration?

Do leaders in the atheist community advocate treating Muslims as second class citizens, violating their rights, etc.?

"Leader" is not a very good or meaningful term in the atheist community. But there are well-known atheists who make a name for themselves by spewing vitriol at Muslims (Pat Condell), and at least one prominent figure in the Atheist community - Ayaan Hirsi Ali - has done all (or at least most) of the above. And good ole Sam Harris is her #1 defender and apologist, in addition to people on this very forum.

I have no idea who these people are. Except Sam Harris, he wrote a book, right?
(maybe they are not so "well known" if someone who actually hangs out in Atheist-Themed debate sites for more than 15 years has no idea who they are?)

 

[Warpoet]

Is it your opinion that violent preachments by radical Muslim clerics such as - "Allah commands death for blasphemers" or "Jews deserve to be slaughtered like the pigs they are, they are enemies of Allah" or "In Islam, killing infidel women and children is permitted", have no effect on behavior and attitudes of some Muslims who hold such clerics in high esteem?

How does this in any way, shape, or form follow from what was posted?

 

[Warpoet]

[I have no idea who these people are. Except Sam Harris, he wrote a book, right?
(maybe they are not so "well known")

Yes, they are well-known, particularly Harris. If all you know about him is that he "wrote a book" you clearly haven't kept up with developments in the atheist community over the years.