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What is matter?

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According to present day science what is matter? What constitutes matter? What is non matter? Are waves matter, or only that which is waving is matter? When there is a water wave in an ocean, Is only the water matter or is the wave also matter?
 
According to present day science what is matter? What constitutes matter? What is non matter? Are waves matter, or only that which is waving is matter? When there is a water wave in an ocean, Is only the water matter or is the wave also matter?

Matter is the stuff of the world. Even anti-matter is matter. Not everything, however, is matter, but darn near everything is. One necessary condition for something to be matter is for it to have mass. Find something that doesn't have mass, then, well, it's not matter. Take photons, for example. They don't have mass, so photons are not matter, or as one might say, photons are not composed of matter.

Energy. Energy is not matter. Time. Time is not matter. Mind. Well, traditionally, no, but scientists keep trying to muck that one up by altering, not the mind, but the meaning of the term.

Water. Yes, matter. Waves. They are composed of matter, so yes.
 
According to present day science what is matter? What constitutes matter? What is non matter? Are waves matter, or only that which is waving is matter? When there is a water wave in an ocean, Is only the water matter or is the wave also matter?
Matter is simply rest mass. We know of three states of matter: solid, liquid, and gas - though some include plasma. The states of matter are determined by things like pressure, temperature, energy, and the motion of particles and molecules. Mass and energy are equivalent according to special relativity: E=mc2. All matter is made up of an atomic nucleus with protons (+) and neutrons, and electrons (-) forming bonds that make up the chemical elements.

Waves are a property of matter and energy oscillations in physical fields
 
Everything is fields; waves are fluctuations in the values of those fields, and fluctuations are energy.

Mass is just lots of energy, all in one place. Rest mass is a minuscule fraction of the total, and is caused by the Higgs mechanism; the remainder is due to the massive energies that the interactions between particles with or without rest mass generate. (When two photons interact, the total mass of the system is positive, even though both are zero rest mass particles).

Most of the mass at human scales comes from the interactions between particles in atomic nuclei; it is the enormous binding energy that is needed to maintain a nucleus intact that we experience as mass. Almost all of the mass we experience is the energy of the virtual gluons and virtual quarks racing around the nucleus holding it together. About 1-2% is the rest mass that quarks and electrons acquire via the Higgs mechanism; a few parts in a thousand are due to nuclear and electromagnetic force field energy.

A Hydrogen atom consists of two up quarks (massing 2.3MeV each), a down quark (massing 4.8MeV) and an electron (0.5MeV); the total of the rest-masses of these particles, using scalar addition, comes to about 9.9MeV; but the atom has a mass of around 1GeV - a hundred times the sum of it's component's rest masses. Around 90% of the mass is in the gluon energy required to hold the three quarks tightly bound as a proton. Gluons (and some quarks) exist as 'virtual particles' - the net number of such particles in the atom is zero, but they constantly pop in and out of existence along with their anti-particles.

At the atomic scale, matter is a property of waves. At the macroscopic scale, waves can arise as oscillations of matter driven by electromagnetic fields (as in a guitar string) or by a combination of EM and gravity (as in ocean waves).

When you look at waves at the beach, the waves move towards the shore, breaking as they arrive; but the individual particles in the water don't move towards the shore - they move in elliptical paths. In a very real sense, the water and the waves are separate phenomena - the wave transfers energy from one place to another, while the water, on average, stays pretty much in the same place all the time, and just bounces up and down.
 
Everything is fields; waves are fluctuations in the values of those fields, and fluctuations are energy.

Mass is just lots of energy, all in one place. Rest mass is a minuscule fraction of the total, and is caused by the Higgs mechanism; the remainder is due to the massive energies that the interactions between particles with or without rest mass generate. (When two photons interact, the total mass of the system is positive, even though both are zero rest mass particles).

Most of the mass at human scales comes from the interactions between particles in atomic nuclei; it is the enormous binding energy that is needed to maintain a nucleus intact that we experience as mass. Almost all of the mass we experience is the energy of the virtual gluons and virtual quarks racing around the nucleus holding it together. About 1-2% is the rest mass that quarks and electrons acquire via the Higgs mechanism; a few parts in a thousand are due to nuclear and electromagnetic force field energy.

A Hydrogen atom consists of two up quarks (massing 2.3MeV each), a down quark (massing 4.8MeV) and an electron (0.5MeV); the total of the rest-masses of these particles, using scalar addition, comes to about 9.9MeV; but the atom has a mass of around 1GeV - a hundred times the sum of it's component's rest masses. Around 90% of the mass is in the gluon energy required to hold the three quarks tightly bound as a proton. Gluons (and some quarks) exist as 'virtual particles' - the net number of such particles in the atom is zero, but they constantly pop in and out of existence along with their anti-particles.

I dont get this: you need to ADD energy to break those bindings. How can you say that they their energy (which went somewhere else when the binding formed) contributes to the mass?
 
Everything is fields; waves are fluctuations in the values of those fields, and fluctuations are energy.

Mass is just lots of energy, all in one place. Rest mass is a minuscule fraction of the total, and is caused by the Higgs mechanism; the remainder is due to the massive energies that the interactions between particles with or without rest mass generate. (When two photons interact, the total mass of the system is positive, even though both are zero rest mass particles).

Most of the mass at human scales comes from the interactions between particles in atomic nuclei; it is the enormous binding energy that is needed to maintain a nucleus intact that we experience as mass. Almost all of the mass we experience is the energy of the virtual gluons and virtual quarks racing around the nucleus holding it together. About 1-2% is the rest mass that quarks and electrons acquire via the Higgs mechanism; a few parts in a thousand are due to nuclear and electromagnetic force field energy.

A Hydrogen atom consists of two up quarks (massing 2.3MeV each), a down quark (massing 4.8MeV) and an electron (0.5MeV); the total of the rest-masses of these particles, using scalar addition, comes to about 9.9MeV; but the atom has a mass of around 1GeV - a hundred times the sum of it's component's rest masses. Around 90% of the mass is in the gluon energy required to hold the three quarks tightly bound as a proton. Gluons (and some quarks) exist as 'virtual particles' - the net number of such particles in the atom is zero, but they constantly pop in and out of existence along with their anti-particles.

I dont get this: you need to ADD energy to break those bindings. How can you say that they their energy (which went somewhere else when the binding formed) contributes to the mass?

You need to add a LOT of energy to hydrogen to get it to fuse into helium - but once it does, you get back more than you put in. That's how the sun (and H-Bombs) work.

But all of that is penny-ante stuff - that gluon energy isn't there holding the nucleus together, it is holding the protons themselves together - indeed, in a hydrogen atom, there's only one neucleon present.

The energy came from somewhere to put them together. It didn't go somewhere. Mass is energy. The whole is more massive than the sum of the parts; therefore the whole is more energetic than the sum of the parts.
 
According to present day science what is matter? What constitutes matter? What is non matter? Are waves matter, or only that which is waving is matter? When there is a water wave in an ocean, Is only the water matter or is the wave also matter?
We call "matter" something that we don't know, which therefore may or may not exist as we think of it. Maybe matter is really just another shade of blue. We should also keep in mind that except for our own mind we probably won't get to know anything at all. What's left is explanation. Some have provided "good" explanations. But that's not telling us what matter is. It's telling us instead that matter doesn't exist after all and that something else exist, say, energy for example, or some sort of "waves", whatever. If so, the real question is not "What is matter?" but "What is energy?", or what are "waves" etc. The question therefore is: What is the real stuff that explains everything else which only seems to exist but really doesn't so that the what the real stuff explains is really our impressions that certain things exist, like tables and chairs, matter, or whatever.

So, what is the real stuff?
EB
 
Mass and energy are equivalent according to special relativity: E=mc2.
Actually, they're not. The term "c2" here has dimension: [m2]/[s2].

Rather, the formula means that if we measure a quantity of energy we should be able to measure a certain mass, and vice versa.
EB
 
According to present day science what is matter? What constitutes matter? What is non matter? Are waves matter, or only that which is waving is matter? When there is a water wave in an ocean, Is only the water matter or is the wave also matter?
We call "matter" something that we don't know, which therefore may or may not exist as we think of it. Maybe matter is really just another shade of blue. We should also keep in mind that except for our own mind we probably won't get to know anything at all. What's left is explanation. Some have provided "good" explanations. But that's not telling us what matter is. It's telling us instead that matter doesn't exist after all and that something else exist, say, energy for example, or some sort of "waves", whatever. If so, the real question is not "What is matter?" but "What is energy?", or what are "waves" etc. The question therefore is: What is the real stuff that explains everything else which only seems to exist but really doesn't so that the what the real stuff explains is really our impressions that certain things exist, like tables and chairs, matter, or whatever.

So, what is the real stuff?
EB
Thanks for your reply EB. This is what I think too. So what is the real stuff? Your further thoughts on this?
 
Everything is fields; waves are fluctuations in the values of those fields, and fluctuations are energy.

Mass is just lots of energy, all in one place. Rest mass is a minuscule fraction of the total, and is caused by the Higgs mechanism; the remainder is due to the massive energies that the interactions between particles with or without rest mass generate. (When two photons interact, the total mass of the system is positive, even though both are zero rest mass particles).

Most of the mass at human scales comes from the interactions between particles in atomic nuclei; it is the enormous binding energy that is needed to maintain a nucleus intact that we experience as mass. Almost all of the mass we experience is the energy of the virtual gluons and virtual quarks racing around the nucleus holding it together. About 1-2% is the rest mass that quarks and electrons acquire via the Higgs mechanism; a few parts in a thousand are due to nuclear and electromagnetic force field energy.

A Hydrogen atom consists of two up quarks (massing 2.3MeV each), a down quark (massing 4.8MeV) and an electron (0.5MeV); the total of the rest-masses of these particles, using scalar addition, comes to about 9.9MeV; but the atom has a mass of around 1GeV - a hundred times the sum of it's component's rest masses. Around 90% of the mass is in the gluon energy required to hold the three quarks tightly bound as a proton. Gluons (and some quarks) exist as 'virtual particles' - the net number of such particles in the atom is zero, but they constantly pop in and out of existence along with their anti-particles.

At the atomic scale, matter is a property of waves. At the macroscopic scale, waves can arise as oscillations of matter driven by electromagnetic fields (as in a guitar string) or by a combination of EM and gravity (as in ocean waves).

When you look at waves at the beach, the waves move towards the shore, breaking as they arrive; but the individual particles in the water don't move towards the shore - they move in elliptical paths. In a very real sense, the water and the waves are separate phenomena - the wave transfers energy from one place to another, while the water, on average, stays pretty much in the same place all the time, and just bounces up and down.
What are fields?
 
According to present day science what is matter? What constitutes matter? What is non matter? Are waves matter, or only that which is waving is matter? When there is a water wave in an ocean, Is only the water matter or is the wave also matter?
We call "matter" something that we don't know, which therefore may or may not exist as we think of it. Maybe matter is really just another shade of blue. We should also keep in mind that except for our own mind we probably won't get to know anything at all. What's left is explanation. Some have provided "good" explanations. But that's not telling us what matter is. It's telling us instead that matter doesn't exist after all and that something else exist, say, energy for example, or some sort of "waves", whatever. If so, the real question is not "What is matter?" but "What is energy?", or what are "waves" etc. The question therefore is: What is the real stuff that explains everything else which only seems to exist but really doesn't so that the what the real stuff explains is really our impressions that certain things exist, like tables and chairs, matter, or whatever.

So, what is the real stuff?
EB
That depends what you mean by 'real'; and that is a subject for Philosophy, not Natural Science.

In terms of Natural Science, matter is what Quantum Field Theory says it is - and QFT defines what matter 'is' by using mathematics to describe how things interact, in a way that allows us to accurately predict what will happen next, given a particular set of initial conditions. We arbitrarily label some of those descriptions as 'mass' or 'energy'; and we can describe very accurately how those two sets of results in our calculations will relate to one another - and to everything else.

Concepts like 'mass' and 'energy' are useful for making fairly precise predictions about what will happen next. Mathematics is even more useful. But all of these things are mere models of an underlying reality that is, and probably always will be, inaccessible to us. We don't know what 'real' even means; and speculation about it is, in my opinion, futile.

When we use a concept of 'matter' that conforms to the mathematical model called QFT, we are able to very accurately predict how our observations will evolve - ie, what we will see happen next. Those models assign values to a small number of fields (each of which is associated with a particle, which is what we call a local maximum in those fields; it seems that the values for many of these fields are constrained to multiples of a particular minimum quantity, hence the 'quantum' in QFT). Each of these fields has well defined properties, or rules, that specify how they interact. Whether these models represent what is "actually happening" is not a question that can be answered in a scientific way; it is like asking 'What is North of the North Pole?" or "What happened before the start of time?".

Science has the goal of finding out how the universe works. It appears that there are rules, and that everything obeys those rules; Science is the process of writing what we hope will be the definitive rulebook, based solely on observing what happens.

QFT is the best rulebook we have come up with to date; Its predictions match observation as perfectly as we are able to detect, except in its descriptions of gravitation. We have a separate, and almost as effective, rulebook to tell us how to predict what happens when gravity is important; And there are some reasons to think that there may be some underlying rules from which both rulebooks might be derived.

As far as Natural Science is concerned, what matter is, is 'that thing you have when all of the fields at this set of locations in spacetime are interacting in such a way as to give a number for 'mass' that is non-zero'. It is defined - as all other physical entities are defined - in terms of the rules. We know that we know a lot of the rules to a very high degree of precision; So we can be confident to the same high degree that this is a good description of matter.
 
Everything is fields; waves are fluctuations in the values of those fields, and fluctuations are energy.

Mass is just lots of energy, all in one place. Rest mass is a minuscule fraction of the total, and is caused by the Higgs mechanism; the remainder is due to the massive energies that the interactions between particles with or without rest mass generate. (When two photons interact, the total mass of the system is positive, even though both are zero rest mass particles).

Most of the mass at human scales comes from the interactions between particles in atomic nuclei; it is the enormous binding energy that is needed to maintain a nucleus intact that we experience as mass. Almost all of the mass we experience is the energy of the virtual gluons and virtual quarks racing around the nucleus holding it together. About 1-2% is the rest mass that quarks and electrons acquire via the Higgs mechanism; a few parts in a thousand are due to nuclear and electromagnetic force field energy.

A Hydrogen atom consists of two up quarks (massing 2.3MeV each), a down quark (massing 4.8MeV) and an electron (0.5MeV); the total of the rest-masses of these particles, using scalar addition, comes to about 9.9MeV; but the atom has a mass of around 1GeV - a hundred times the sum of it's component's rest masses. Around 90% of the mass is in the gluon energy required to hold the three quarks tightly bound as a proton. Gluons (and some quarks) exist as 'virtual particles' - the net number of such particles in the atom is zero, but they constantly pop in and out of existence along with their anti-particles.

At the atomic scale, matter is a property of waves. At the macroscopic scale, waves can arise as oscillations of matter driven by electromagnetic fields (as in a guitar string) or by a combination of EM and gravity (as in ocean waves).

When you look at waves at the beach, the waves move towards the shore, breaking as they arrive; but the individual particles in the water don't move towards the shore - they move in elliptical paths. In a very real sense, the water and the waves are separate phenomena - the wave transfers energy from one place to another, while the water, on average, stays pretty much in the same place all the time, and just bounces up and down.
What are fields?
A field is a metric that has a value for each point in spacetime.
 
Ultimately, I don't think that anyone knows what 'matter/energy' is. We have named and quantified attributes and aspects - protons, neutrons, Higgs, probability wave function, superposition, wave collapse, etc - of something we call 'matter/energy,' but none of this tells us exactly what it is we are dealing with.
 
Nobody knows what matter is.

Science gave that kind of stuff up a long time ago.

What we have are models that describe behavior.

And some think saying "matter is that which is described by our models" is actually saying what matter is.
 
Science gave that kind of stuff up a long time ago.

Nevertheless that is the OP question.

What we have are models that describe behavior.

And some think saying "matter is that which is described by our models" is actually saying what matter is.

Some do think that.
However, what is being described by the models, attributes, features, principles, does not actually tell us what matter/energy is, only the attributes, features, principles of 'whatever it is' being described, but not as yet fully understood.
 
Nevertheless that is the OP question.

What we have are models that describe behavior.

And some think saying "matter is that which is described by our models" is actually saying what matter is.

Some do think that.
However, what is being described by the models, attributes, features, principles, does not actually tell us what matter/energy is, only the attributes, features, principles of 'whatever it is' being described, but not as yet fully understood.

What is anything, if not its attributes, features, and behaviours?

Matter is stuff.

If you want to know anything beyond that, you have to look at what it does.

It's not meaningful to consider anything else. The question 'what is it other than its detectable qualities?' Is fundamentally unanswerable, and asking it suggests a level of uncertainty that simply doesn't exist.

You can ask the question, but to do so simply identifies you as not having thought about things clearly.

You can answer the question, but to do so is to create imaginative fiction. Nobody should be fooled into thinking that you are doing anything useful in the real world.

Saying 'matter is what is described by our models' is not necessarily a complete answer; but it is the best possible answer.

There cannot be a better answer; any different answer is, necessarily, less good.
 
Nobody knows what matter is.

Science gave that kind of stuff up a long time ago.

What we have are models that describe behavior.

And some think saying "matter is that which is described by our models" is actually saying what matter is.
And others think that if they express sufficient derision, nobody will notice that they don't have a better answer.
 
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