What precedent will prosecuting a former president set?

[Elixir]

Talking heads make it sound like a deeply troubling question.

IMO it’s simple: any President who tries to stay in power by destroying democracy after losing a free and fair election, should be imprisoned for life - or executed.
Why is that a problem for any American?

 

[Rhea]

Great question. Looking forward to the discussion.

I ffeel like there is a positive if Presidents know that breaking the law regarding democracy will given them big problems.

 

[Gospel]

I don't believe it's a problem for any American as long as it's not their guy/gal getting imprisoned for life - or executed. That's what trends tell me. Personally, I believe however the constitution says to handle it is what needs to be done. I think that's prosecution by the department of justice? Anyway, all this talk of Trump getting held accountable is out the door if Desantis (or any Republican) wins. He'll/They'll pardon Trump. Hell, it will likely be one of their campaign promises to get his looney ass base on board.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think it sets an excellent precedent particularly if he is convicted. He should also lose all his perks.

 

[Elixir]

all this talk of Trump getting held accountable is out the door if Desantis (or any Republican) wins.

Yup. And what precedent does THAT set?
To me it says “Once in power, stay in power by any means possible, including violence, enlisting foreign help etc.. If you fail, there are no consequences.”
IOW, if any Republican wins in ‘24, Kami should accept some fake electors and certify the win of a Democrat.

 

[Elixir]

I think it sets an excellent precedent particularly if he is convicted. He should also lose all his perks.

^ That. Including USSS protection.

 

[Politesse]

Imagine if you told the "founding fathers" that we would one day embrace the concept of holding presidents above any and all legal constraint, including the power of the Congress to investigate misconduct... supposedly in their name.

They knew what to do with crooked politicians back in those days:

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hard to tell. It can't be good. The issue is that in general, the future White House has protected the former White House. President Biden has let some of that go, and for good reason. But if you present the taking of an inch, the GOP will then take a yard (see Federal verses SCOTUS nomination approval requirements). If DeSantis became President, then we'd see a huge flushing out of documents from the Biden Administration, looking for any undotted i or uncrossed t they can find. It'll get tedious and will be the next domino to drop for our democracy.

As far as investigations, I don't see much change there. We already had Whitewater and the Hillary Clinton invest-a-thon. The GOP has no shame left there.

 

[Elixir]

If DeSantis became President, then we'd see a huge flushing out of documents from the Biden Administration, looking for any undotted i or uncrossed t they can find.

So what? They will do that whether or not they’re in power, and whether or not there is any “there” there. They will always have some equivalent to Hunter Biden or buttery males to cry “hanging offense!” over. No Republican President is ever again going to protect any past Dem President - Trump wanted Obama put to death.

But they’ll have to corrupt the DOJ as Cheato tried and failed to do, in order to extract any pound of flesh on bogus charges. And they’ll do that if they can, whether or not Cheato is in jail or hanging from a tree. Let’s give them some cause for pause.

 

[laughing dog]

The GOP has no shame. Frankly, at this point, I think if they took control of Congress and the White House, they would go after Mr. Biden regardless what happens Mr. Trump.

My baser instincts lead me to want both Mr. Trump, and the Representatives who voted to decertify the election should be tried for treason and executed if found guilty. Any Senator who failed to vote for impeachment should be disappeared.

I realize my baser instincts are just that - emotional reactions. The only good thing I see coming out of a possible prosecution and conviction of Mr. Trump and his co-conspirators is their subsequent disqualification for future federal offices (until they are pardoned by some future GOP lackey). However, I am not sanguine that offsets the possible real costs of exacerbating the deep partisan pathologies that could very well lead to widespread violence and insurrection.

My preferred and unrealistic outcome is that indisputable evidence surfaces of a long-standing clandestine affairs between Mr. Trump and Ms. Pelosi, and Mr. Trump and Ms. Clinton. Then he indisputably commits suicide. That would finish him and his memory with his delusional fanatics.

 

[Elixir]

exacerbating the deep partisan pathologies that could very well lead to widespread violence and insurrection.

Hmph.
Why is there no fear of those deep partisan pathologies causing Democrats to install an authoritarian government?
I think your “emotional” reaction is also the rational one.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If DeSantis became President, then we'd see a huge flushing out of documents from the Biden Administration, looking for any undotted i or uncrossed t they can find.

So what? They will do that whether or not they’re in power, and whether or not there is any “there” there.

But they hadn't up to now. That'd likely change. You asked, I answered.

They will always have some equivalent to Hunter Biden or buttery males to cry “hanging offense!” over.

But they’ll have to corrupt the DOJ as Cheato tried and failed to do, in order to extract any pound of flesh on bogus charges. And they’ll do that if they can, whether or not Cheato is in jail or hanging from a tree. Let’s give them some cause for pause.

Trump almost certainly won't go to jail (for January 6th, I honestly think the Georgia case is better). The bar doesn't even exist for the Attorney General base chances on a conviction. As a reminder, there are a number of steps:

1) Announce charges
2) Get to discovery
3) Actually hold a trial
4) Appeal-polloza

There are likely multiple SCOTUS questions that'd need to be settled... with a SCOTUS that is a bit more sympathetic to the GOP side of stories.

We know Trump is guilty as all fuck... but guilty as all fuck still doesn't equate in a trial conviction, especially when dealing with the actions of a President. Also, I don't think there is an issue with the DoJ becoming a weapon as much as the GOP White House feeling quite content on spilling the DEM White House files.

 

[Elixir]

guilty as all fuck still doesn't equate in a trial conviction, especially when dealing with the actions of a President.

He’s not a president. If appeal-a-palooza is the best we can get out of this, we’re probably fucked anyhow.
If the trumpsucker army wants civil war, let’s get it on. Better than allowing this bullshit to continue.

 

[laughing dog]

exacerbating the deep partisan pathologies that could very well lead to widespread violence and insurrection.

Hmph.
Why is there no fear of those deep partisan pathologies causing Democrats to install an authoritarian government?

Their lack of coherence and competency.

I think your “emotional” reaction is also the rational one.

Thank you.,

 

[Elixir]

Their lack of coherence and competency.

What about their lack of desire to convert our democracy to a dictatorship?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

guilty as all fuck still doesn't equate in a trial conviction, especially when dealing with the actions of a President.

He’s not a president.

He was... and that matters a ton more than you are appreciating.

If appeal-a-palooza is the best we can get out of this, we’re probably fucked anyhow.

There will be appeals on appeals on appeals. It could take years to get to trial. Hence the whole "Constitutional Solution" thing.

 

[Elixir]

He was [president]. and that matters a ton more than you are appreciating.

Why?
I’m not saying it doesn’t matter, but only because being president provides access to the means to try to overthrow the government. That MUST not be allowed.

 

[ZiprHead]

I've seen several talking heads blaming this on Ford pardoning Nixon. Jill Wine-Banks just said it yesterday that it makes this so much harder.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He was [president]. and that matters a ton more than you are appreciating.

Why?

Where in the Constitution does it discuss investigations on the President?

I’m not saying it doesn’t matter, but only because being president provides access to the means to try to overthrow the government. That MUST not be allowed.

No, it shouldn't, but like I've said umpteenth times, the solution to this is Impeachment. Our court system isn't designed to put the President on trial.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I think it sets an excellent precedent particularly if he is convicted. He should also lose all his perks.

Agree. It should be treated like a dishonorable discharge/felony.



Thinking about Trump and saying "discharge", makes me smile.