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What should Israel do?

Yet in every negotiation they insist on keeping the settlements.

What is this reasonable peace?

Give Israel everything it wants?



Do you have a link that supports your position?

I know that you don't. Even Netanyahu is willing to trade land and settlements for peace:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/07/us-netanyahu-idUSBREA261LP20140307

And there are some on the Palestinian side that are willing to accept some settlements in exchange for land swaps. The fact of the matter is that there are people on both sides who do want a reasonable compromise and peace. Arafat was extremely close. Abbas was close. I don't think that the land is the major problem. The real intractable parts are right of return, East Jerusulam, and Israeli security. I think that the final solution (if it ever comes) will be some kind of land swap; east Jerusalem under Palestinian control, right of return settled by financial compensation only (contributed by Israel and donor countries); and a de-militarized west bank and Gaza.
 
Do you have a link that supports your position?

I know that you don't. Even Netanyahu is willing to trade land and settlements for peace:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/07/us-netanyahu-idUSBREA261LP20140307

And there are some on the Palestinian side that are willing to accept some settlements in exchange for land swaps. The fact of the matter is that there are people on both sides who do want a reasonable compromise and peace. Arafat was extremely close. Abbas was close. I don't think that the land is the major problem. The real intractable parts are right of return, East Jerusulam, and Israeli security. I think that the final solution (if it ever comes) will be some kind of land swap; east Jerusalem under Palestinian control, right of return settled by financial compensation only (contributed by Israel and donor countries); and a de-militarized west bank and Gaza.
Show me the map of the settlements Israel is willing to give up.

Show me the Israeli map that defines the borders Israel desires as it's final borders.

You will find no such maps because Israel is full of shit.

And every settlement is illegal. Why exactly does Israel get to keep any?
 
I know that you don't. Even Netanyahu is willing to trade land and settlements for peace:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/07/us-netanyahu-idUSBREA261LP20140307

And there are some on the Palestinian side that are willing to accept some settlements in exchange for land swaps. The fact of the matter is that there are people on both sides who do want a reasonable compromise and peace. Arafat was extremely close. Abbas was close. I don't think that the land is the major problem. The real intractable parts are right of return, East Jerusulam, and Israeli security. I think that the final solution (if it ever comes) will be some kind of land swap; east Jerusalem under Palestinian control, right of return settled by financial compensation only (contributed by Israel and donor countries); and a de-militarized west bank and Gaza.
Show me the map of the settlements Israel is willing to give up.

Show me the Israeli map that defines the borders Israel desires as it's final borders.

You will find no such maps because Israel is full of shit.

And every settlement is illegal. Why exactly does Israel get to keep any?

If Israel and the Palestinians reach a compromise allowing them to keep some settlements who are you to argue?
 
Show me the map of the settlements Israel is willing to give up.

Show me the Israeli map that defines the borders Israel desires as it's final borders.

You will find no such maps because Israel is full of shit.

And every settlement is illegal. Why exactly does Israel get to keep any?

If Israel and the Palestinians reach a compromise allowing them to keep some settlements who are you to argue?
That's not what Netanyahu said.

He said Israel has unilaterally decided it will keep most of the settlements. Non negotiable.

Why does Israeli crime pay so well?
 
If Israel and the Palestinians reach a compromise allowing them to keep some settlements who are you to argue?
That's not what Netanyahu said.

He said Israel has unilaterally decided it will keep most of the settlements. Non negotiable.

Why does Israeli crime pay so well?

First off, you refuse to support you're views with links, then you distort the views of the links that I provide. Here's what the article stated: "Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would give up "some settlements" in occupied Palestinian land to help secure a peace agreement but would limit as much as he could the number of enclaves removed". The Palestinians have stated that they are open to trading some settlements for similar land in Israel proper. Who are you to say that they can't compromise?
 
That's not what Netanyahu said.

He said Israel has unilaterally decided it will keep most of the settlements. Non negotiable.

Why does Israeli crime pay so well?

First off, you refuse to support you're views with links, then you distort the views of the links that I provide. Here's what the article stated: "Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would give up "some settlements" in occupied Palestinian land to help secure a peace agreement but would limit as much as he could the number of enclaves removed". The Palestinians have stated that they are open to trading some settlements for similar land in Israel proper. Who are you to say that they can't compromise?
What he said was that the majority of the illegal settlements are non negotiable. Israel will not negotiate with the Palestinians on the majority of the settlements. And every one of them have been ruled illegal, even in Israeli courts.

That's not a position of compromise.

It's a criminal stating that he is going to keep the profits from his crime no matter what. And he's going to continue to kill children if anybody complains.
 
Which the Zionists rejected because it wouldn't have resulted in a JEWISH state. It has to be recalled that the basic reason for the conflict in the first place stems from the Arab population knowing full well what the Zionists were up to and not being able to do anything about it; as it stands, the Zionist bloc didn't have a leg to stand on outside of the intervention of foreign governments playing off their own agendas, which is why I maintain that NOTHING should have been agreed to except at a purely local level (even Faisal-Weizmann was probably a step in the wrong direction).

Of course they would reject a plan that would remove the Jewish nature of the state:

1) They see Israel as a fallback position for when the world turns hostile again. The practicing Jews are already starting to leave Europe.

2) A non-Jewish Israel means ethnic cleansing of the Jews.

If Jewish immigrants couldn't find a way to integrate into their new country and win the acceptance of their neighbors, then they definitely wouldn't be able to make a homeland there without expelling said neighbors in a violent confrontation.

And so the KKK should be able to keep out black people? (The Islamists make the KKK look like a kitten in comparison.)

The Arabs didn't want a two-state solution. They didn't want increased Jewish immigration either. They wanted things to stay the way they had been for hundreds of years, as from THEIR perspective there was no reason for anything to change.

And the south didn't want slavery to end, either. The Arabs like suppressing non-Muslims.

Look at what the IS is doing these days--religious cleansing, flee or die--and sometimes they aren't even given the chance to flee.

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What Israel wants is peace.

If they don't also want peace for the Palestinians, then peace is not what they're after.

Israel wants DOMINANCE, not peace. If they could put a one-way forcefield over Gaza that would allow them to bomb at will without the return fire coming near them, they would do it in a heartbeat (that's essentially what the Iron Dome already does). They do not want to make peace with the Palestinians, they want to make the Palestinians give in and accept their dominance.

Israel knows that if they aren't dominant there won't be peace.
 
<snip> keep repeating it if that makes you happy.

Furthermore, it's treason for any Palestinian leader to agree to a peace treaty that gives an inch on the right of return
<snip> go ahead, you're on a roll.

<snip> I've posted about it before.

The PA passed a law making budging on the right of return treason and attempting to repeal the law treason. There's no way they can agree.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/01/1...h-penalty-if-he-signs-peace-deal-with-israel/


Just because I point out things you aren't willing to believe about the Palestinians doesn't mean I'm lying.
 
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Distrust isn't the issue. The issue is that the Palestinians are determined to "liberate" all of Israel.

The potential ambition of the Palestinians to "liberate all of Israel" is not and has never been relevant to this conflict. Peace can be established NOW along the 1967 borders. The Palestinians might break the peace in 2020, or they might break it in 2025, or they might break it in 2040. That does not change the fact that they have offered to make peace NOW on the 1967 borders.

Why in the world should Israel give up a bunch of land when they know the peace will soon be broken?

If war breaks out again in the future, guess what we'll do? We'll insist on an armistice based on the 1967 borders. If the Palestinians build a robot army with the power to drive Israel into the sea in their 2040 Universal Jihad, guess what we'll do? We'll kick their robot asses and insist on an armistice based on the 1967 borders.

Exactly--take Israel piece by piece. That's the strategy they're after.

But we're setting this process up for epic failure if we do not force Israel to dismantle its settlements and abide by its own borders; if we refuse to make Israel abide by the law, on what basis would we do the same for Palestine? What if 50 years from now the Palestinians start building settlements on unclaimed Isaeli land with the intent of slowly pushing them out demographically? What if Palestinians start illegally immigrating into and building huge enclaves in the negev and then setting up military posts to cut off Israeli access to the Red Sea?

It's always talk of force Israel, force Israel. Never about forcing the Palestinians.

We should not demand anything from Israel that we would not demand from the Palestinians, and vice versa. It doesn't matter who they are or what you think they believe: if you do not negotiate from a fair position, you cannot complain when one side doesn't accept your solution.

You don't demand peace and concessions from the Palestinians. Why do you find it acceptable to demand them of Israel?

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Do you have a link that supports your position?

I know that you don't. Even Netanyahu is willing to trade land and settlements for peace:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/07/us-netanyahu-idUSBREA261LP20140307

And there are some on the Palestinian side that are willing to accept some settlements in exchange for land swaps. The fact of the matter is that there are people on both sides who do want a reasonable compromise and peace. Arafat was extremely close. Abbas was close. I don't think that the land is the major problem. The real intractable parts are right of return, East Jerusulam, and Israeli security. I think that the final solution (if it ever comes) will be some kind of land swap; east Jerusalem under Palestinian control, right of return settled by financial compensation only (contributed by Israel and donor countries); and a de-militarized west bank and Gaza.

And there's no way in hell the Palestinians will agree to either the right of return or demilitarized.

- - - Updated - - -

Show me the map of the settlements Israel is willing to give up.

Show me the Israeli map that defines the borders Israel desires as it's final borders.

You will find no such maps because Israel is full of shit.

And every settlement is illegal. Why exactly does Israel get to keep any?

Of course Israel won't draw the map--that's not how you negotiate. You don't walk into negotiations using your final position as your starting point!
 
Of course Israel won't draw the map--that's not how you negotiate. You don't walk into negotiations using your final position as your starting point!
Israel is not serious about wanting peace.

If it was serious it would create a map outlining what it thinks peace should look like. A starting position.

Since when in negotiations is giving a starting position unneeded?

And until it does, only fools think it is serious. Israel is about as serious as Americans were when they negotiated with the native Americans.
 
Do you have a link that supports your position?

I know that you don't. Even Netanyahu is willing to trade land and settlements for peace:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/07/us-netanyahu-idUSBREA261LP20140307

And there are some on the Palestinian side that are willing to accept some settlements in exchange for land swaps. The fact of the matter is that there are people on both sides who do want a reasonable compromise and peace. Arafat was extremely close. Abbas was close. I don't think that the land is the major problem. The real intractable parts are right of return, East Jerusulam, and Israeli security. I think that the final solution (if it ever comes) will be some kind of land swap; east Jerusalem under Palestinian control, right of return settled by financial compensation only (contributed by Israel and donor countries); and a de-militarized west bank and Gaza.

Netanyahu is a politician and a very good one.

He once said he did not think Iran would be irresponsible with nukes. Today he fear mongers painting Iran as an existential threat.

Earlier in the year he declared Israel would increase settlements as they see fit and it was non negotiable. He backed off after global responses.

Jerusalem as the exclusive capitol of Israel, non negotiable.

Netanyahu is a right wing conservative religious hawk, just like his Christian counterparts over here. You have to look at his political history not what he says at a given point. He is an aggressive expansionist Zionist.
 
And what was happening prior to that in the '20s?

Not much. That part of the world was quiet for centuries under the Ottomans. Things started to heat up when WWI broke out, but the worst of the violence occurred when the British took over. The British had courted the Arabs to overthrow the Turks, promising them Arab self-determination. They had also forged deals with the Zionists to undermine the Arabs, promising support for a Jewish national home in Palestine. Meanwhile, the British were conspiring with France to divvy up the region between the two of them. Those mutually incompatible promises made things a hell of a lot worse than just a fight over unchecked immigration.

This is a pretty good overview of the fight for control.
 
And what was happening prior to that in the '20s?

Not much. That part of the world was quiet for centuries under the Ottomans. Things started to heat up when WWI broke out, but the worst of the violence occurred when the British took over. The British had courted the Arabs to overthrow the Turks, promising them Arab self-determination. They had also forged deals with the Zionists to undermine the Arabs, promising support for a Jewish national home in Palestine. Meanwhile, the British were conspiring with France to divvy up the region between the two of them. Those mutually incompatible promises made things a hell of a lot worse than just a fight over unchecked immigration.

This is a pretty good overview of the fight for control.

Your own link notes multiple events - though it uses some glib language.

Merip said:
In 1920 and 1921, clashes broke out between Arabs and Jews in which roughly equal numbers from both communities were killed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Palestine_riots

Wiki said:
Khalil al-Sakakini witnessed the eruption of violence in the Old City:

"[A] riot broke out, the people began to run about and stones were thrown at the Jews. The shops were closed and there were screams... I saw a Zionist soldier covered in dust and blood... Afterwards, I saw one Hebronite approach a Jewish shoeshine boy, who hid behind a sack in one of the wall's comers next to Jaffa Gate, and take his box and beat him over the head. He screamed and began to run, his head bleeding and the Hebronite left him and returned to the procession... The riot reached its zenith. All shouted, "Muhammad's religion was born with the sword"... I immediately walked to the municipal garden... my soul is nauseated and depressed by the madness of humankind."[14]
The army imposed night curfew on Sunday night and arrested several dozen rioters, but on Monday morning they were allowed to attend morning prayers and were then released. Arabs continued to attack Jews and break into their homes, especially in Arab-majority mixed buildings.[1]

On Monday, as disturbances grew worse, the Old City was sealed off by the army and no one was allowed to exit the area. Martial law was declared, but looting, burglary, rape, and murder continued. Several homes were set on fire, and tombstones were shattered. British soldiers found that the majority of illicit weapons were concealed on the bodies of Arab women.[1] On Monday evening, the soldiers were evacuated from the Old City, a step described in the Palin Report as "an error of judgment". Even with martial law, it took the British authorities another 4 days to restore order.

The Old City's Jewish community had no training or weapons, and Jabotinsky's men had found themselves outside the walled Old City, and shut out by British soldiers.[1] Two volunteers were able to enter the Jewish Quarter disguised as medical personnel to organize self-defense - using rocks and boiling water.[1]

Five Jews and four Arabs died in the riots. 216 Jews were injured, 18 critically, and 23 Arabs, one critically. About 300 Jews were evacuated from the Old City.[1]

Wiki said:
On the night of 1 May 1921, the Jewish Communist Party (precursor of the Palestine Communist Party) distributed Arabic and Yiddish fliers calling for the toppling of British rule and the establishing a "Soviet Palestine". The party announced its intention to parade from Jaffa to neighbouring Tel Aviv to commemorate May Day. On the morning of the parade, despite a warning to the 60 members present from one of Jaffa's most senior police officers, Toufiq Bey al-Said, who visited the party's headquarters, the march headed from Jaffa to Tel Aviv through the mixed Jewish-Arab border neighbourhood of Manshiyya.[2]

Another large May Day parade had also been organized for Tel Aviv by the rival socialist Ahdut HaAvoda group, with official authorization. When the two processions met, a fistfight erupted.[2] Police attempted to disperse the about 50 communist protestors, and Muslims and Christians intervened to help the police against the Jews. A general disturbance quickly ensued and spread to the southern part of town.[3]

Hearing of the fighting and believing that Arabs were being attacked, the Arabs of Jaffa went on the offensive. Dozens of British, Arab, and Jewish witnesses all reported that Arab men bearing clubs, knives, swords, and some pistols broke into Jewish buildings and murdered their inhabitants, while women followed to loot. They attacked Jewish pedestrians and destroyed Jewish homes and stores. They beat and killed Jews in their homes, including children, and in some cases split open the victims' skulls.[2]

At 1:00 pm, an immigrant hostel run by the Zionist Commission and home to a hundred people who had arrived in recent weeks and days was attacked by the mob, and though the residents tried to barricade the gate, it was rammed open and Arabs attackers poured in. The stone-throwing was followed by bombs and gunfire, and the Jewish hostel residents hid in various rooms. When the police arrived, it was reported that they weren't shooting to disperse the crowd, but were actually aiming at the building. In the courtyard one immigrant was felled by a policeman's bullet at short-range, and others were stabbed and beaten with sticks. Five women fled a policeman firing his pistol; three escaped. A policeman cornered two women and tried to rape them, but they escaped him despite his shooting at them. A fourteen-year old girl and some men managed to escape the building, but each was in turn chased down and beaten to death with iron rods or wooden boards.[2]

The violence reached as far as Abu Kabir. The Jewish Yitzker family owned a dairy farm on the outskirts of the neighbourhood, in which they rented out rooms. At the time of the riots, Yosef Haim Brenner, one of the pioneers of modern Hebrew literature was living at the site. On May 2, 1921, despite warnings Yitzker and Brenner refused to leave the farm and were murdered, along with Yitzker's teenaged son, his son-in-law and two other renters.[4]

As in the previous year's Nebi Musa riots, the mob tore open their victims' quilts and pillows, sending up clouds of feathers. Some Arabs defended Jews and offered them refuge in their homes; many witnesses identified their attackers and murderers as their neighbours. Several witnesses said that Arab policemen had participated.[2]

High Commissioner Herbert Samuel declared a state of emergency, imposed press censorship, and called for reinforcements from Egypt. General Allenby sent two destroyers to Jaffa and one to Haifa. Samuel met with and tried to calm Arab representatives. Musa Kazim al-Husseini, who had been dismissed as Jerusalem's mayor on account of his involvement in the previous year's Nebi Musa riots, demanded a suspension of Jewish immigration. Samuel assented, and two or three small boats holding 300 Jews were refused permission to land, and were forced to return to Istanbul. At the same time, al-Husseini's nephew, Haj Amin al-Husseini, was appointed Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a decision that later faced much criticism.

Fighting went on for several days and spread to nearby Rehovot, Kfar Saba, Petah Tikva, and Hadera.[2] British aircraft dropped bombs "to protect Jewish settlements from Arab raiders.

Merip said:
On August 15, 1929, members of the Betar Jewish youth movement (a pre-state organization of the Revisionist Zionists) demonstrated and raised a Zionist flag over the Western Wall. Fearing that the Noble Sanctuary was in danger, Arabs responded by attacking Jews in Jerusalem, Hebron and Safed. Among the dead were 64 Jews in Hebron. Their Muslim neighbors saved many others. The Jewish community of Hebron ceased to exist when its surviving members left for Jerusalem. During a week of communal violence, 133 Jews and 115 Arabs were killed and many wounded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots

Wiki said:
The Shaw report found that the "outbreak in Jerusalem on August 23 was from the beginning an attack by Arabs on Jews for which no excuse in the form of earlier murders by Jews has been established."[34]

The next Friday, 23 August, thousands of Arab villagers streamed into Jerusalem from the surrounding countryside to pray on the Temple Mount, many armed with sticks and knives. Harry Luke requested reinforcements from Amman. Towards 09:30 Jewish storekeepers began closing shop and at 11:00, 20–30 gunshots were heard on the Temple Mount, apparently to work up the crowd. Luke telephoned the Mufti to come and calm a mob that had gathered under his window near the Damascus Gate, but the commissioner's impression was that the religious leader's presence was having the opposite effect. By midday friction had spread to the Jewish neighborhood of Mea She'arim where two or three Arabs were killed. The American consulate documented the event in detail, reported that the killings had taken place between 12:00 and 12:30.[35] The Shaw report described the excited Arab crowds and that it was clear beyond all doubt that at 12:50 large sections of these crowds were bent on mischief if not on murder. At 13:15, the Arabs began a massacre of the Jews.[32][36] Reacting to rumors that two Arabs had been murdered by Jews, Arabs started an attack on Jews in Jerusalem's Old City. The violence quickly spread to other parts of Palestine. British authorities had fewer than 100 soldiers, six armoured cars, and five or six aircraft in country; Palestine Police had 1,500 men, but the majority were Arab, with a small number of Jews and 175 British officers. While awaiting reinforcements, many untrained administration officials were required to attach themselves to the police, though the Jews among them were sent back to their offices. Several English theology students visiting from the University of Oxford were deputized.[14] While a number of Jews were being killed at the Jaffa Gate, British policemen did not open fire. They reasoned that if they had shot into the Arab crowd, the mob would have turned their anger on the police.[14]

Yemin Moshe was one of the few Jewish neighbourhoods to return fire, but most of Jerusalem's Jews did not defend themselves. At the outbreak of the violence and again in the following days, Yitzhak Ben-Zvi demanded that weapons be handed to the Jews, but was both times refused.[14] By August 24, 17 Jews were killed in the Jerusalem area. The worst killings occurred in Hebron and Safed while others were killed in Motza, Kfar Uria, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. There were many isolated attacks on Jewish villages, and in six cases, villages were entirely destroyed, accompanied by looting and burning. In Haifa and Jaffa, the situation deteriorated and a police officer succeeded in warding off an attack on the quarter between Jaffa and Tel Aviv by firing on an Arab crowd.

The administrative director of Haddasah hospital in Jerusalem sent a cable to New York describing the casualties and that Arabs were attacking several Jewish hospitals.[5]

In a few instances, Jews attacked Arabs and destroyed Arab property. These attacks were in most cases in retaliation for wrongs already committed by Arabs in the neighbourhood in which the Jewish attacks occurred. A Police officer opened fire on an Arab crowd and succeeded in beating off an attack on the quarter which lies between Jaffa and Tel Aviv. The worst instance of a Jewish attack on Arabs occurred in this quarter, where the Imam of a mosque and six other persons were killed.[2]

According to the Shaw Report, the disturbances were not premeditated and did not occur simultaneously but spread from Jerusalem through a period of days to most outlying centres of population.[37]

Later on 23 August, the British authorities armed 41 Jewish special constables, 18 Jewish ex-soldiers and a further 60 Jews were issued staves, to assist in the defense of Jewish quarters in Jerusalem.[38] The following day, Arab notables issued a statement that "many rumours and reports of various kinds have spread to the effect that Government had enlisted and armed certain Jews, that they had enrolled Jewish ex-soldiers who had served in the Great War; and the Government forces were firing at Arabs exclusively". The Mufti of Jerusalem stated that there was a large crowd of excited Arabs in the Haram area who were also demanding arms, and that the excited crowd in the Haram area took the view that the retention of Jews as special constables carrying arms was a breach of faith by the Government. The Government initially denied the rumours, but by 27 August they were forced to disband and disarm the special constables.[38]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Safed_pogrom

Wiki said:
David Hacohen, a resident of Safed, described the carnage in his diary:

"We set out on Saturday morning. . . I could not believe my eyes. . . I met some of the town's Jewish elders, who fell on my neck weeping bitterly. We went down alleys and steps to the old town. Inside the houses I saw the mutilated and burned bodies of the victims of the massacre, and the burned body of a woman tied to the grille of a window. Going from house to house, I counted ten bodies that had not yet been collected. I saw the destruction and the signs of fire. Even in my grimmest thoughts I had not imagined that this was how I would find Safed where "calm prevailed."

The local Jews gave me a detailed description of how the tragedy had started. The pogrom began on the afternoon of Thursday, August 29, and was carried out by Arabs from Safed and from the nearby villages, armed with weapons and tins of kerosene. Advancing on the street of the Sefardi Jews from Kfar Meron and Ein Zeitim, they looted and set fire to houses, urging each other on to continue with the killing. They slaughtered the schoolteacher, Aphriat, together with his wife and mother, and cut the lawyer, Toledano, to pieces with their knives. Bursting into the orphanages, they smashed the children's heads and cut off their hands. I myself saw the victims. Yitshak Mammon, a native of Safed who lived with an Arab family, was murdered with indescribable brutality: he was stabbed again and again, until his body became a bloody sieve, and then he was trampled to death. Throughout the whole pogrom the police did not fire a single shot."[7]

A Scottish missionary working in Safed at the time stated:

"On Saturday August 24, there was a demonstration of Moslems along the road past the mission property. They came beating drums and breaking the windows of Jewish houses en route...On the afternoon of Thursday the 29th... one of our church members came running to tell us that 'all the Jews were being killed.' A few minutes later we heard women shrieking their 'jubilant refrain' from the Moslem quarter and saw men running with axes and bludgeons in their hands, urged on by women...we heard rifle and machine gun fire all around us...Wild Arabs had come up from the valley unexpectedly into the Jewish quarter and began at once a systematic slaughter of the Jews. Some escaped with injury only but 22 were killed outright in the town...The inhumanity of the attack was beyond conception. Women were gashed in the chest, babies were cut on the hands and feet, old people were killed and plundered."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre (Some graphic pictures)

Wiki said:
The rampage and the killing

At about 8.30 am Saturday morning, the first attacks began to be launched against houses where Jews resided,[16] after a crowd of Arabs armed with staves, axes and knives appeared in the streets. The first location to be attacked was a large Jewish house on the main road. Two young boys were immediately killed, whereupon the mob entered the house and beat or stabbed the other occupants to death.

Cafferata appeared on the scene, gave orders to his constables to fire on the crowd and personally shot dead two of the attacking Arabs.[16] While some dispersed, the rest managed to break through the pickets, shouting "on to the ghetto!" Requested reinforcements had not arrived in time. This later became the source of considerable acrimony.[18]

According to a survivor, Aharon Reuven Bernzweig, "right after eight o'clock in the morning we heard screams. Arabs had begun breaking into Jewish homes. The screams pierced the heart of the heavens. We didn't know what to do… They were going from door to door, slaughtering everyone who was inside. The screams and the moans were terrible. People were crying Help! Help! But what could we do?"

Soon after news of the first victim had spread, forty people assembled in the house of Eliezer Dan Slonim. Slonim, the son of the Rabbi of Hebron, was a member on the city council and a director of the Anglo-Palestine Bank. He had excellent relations with the British and the Arabs and those seeking refuge with him were confident they would come to no harm. When the mob approached his door, they offered to spare the Sephardi community if he would hand over all the Ashkenazi yeshiva students. He refused, saying "we are all one people," whereupon he was shot dead along with his wife and 4-year-old son.[33] From the contemporary Hebrew press it appears that the rioters targeted the Zionist community for their massacre. Four-fifths of the victims were Ashkenazi Jews, though some had deep roots in the town, yet a dozen Jews of eastern origin, Sephardim and Maghrebi, were also killed.[32] Gershon Ben-Zion, for example, the Beit Hadassah Clinic pharmacist, a cripple who had served both Jews and Arabs for 4 decades, was killed together with his family: his daughter was raped and then murdered, and his wife's hands were cut off.[18]

Account of Raymond Cafferata
After the massacre, Cafferata testified:

On hearing screams in a room, I went up a sort of tunnel passage and saw an Arab in the act of cutting off a child's head with a sword. He had already hit him and was having another cut, but on seeing me he tried to aim the stroke at me, but missed; he was practically on the muzzle of my rifle. I shot him low in the groin. Behind him was a Jewish woman smothered in blood with a man I recognized as a[n Arab] police constable named Issa Sheriff from Jaffa. He was standing over the woman with a dagger in his hand. He saw me and bolted into a room close by and tried to shut me out-shouting in Arabic, "Your Honor, I am a policeman." ... I got into the room and shot him.[18][34][35]

Account of Jacob Joseph Slonim

Rabbi Jacob Joseph Slonim, the Ashkenazi chief rabbi of Hebron, stated that after his Arab acquaintances had informed him that local hooligans intended to attack the talmudical academy, he had gone to ask for protection from District Officer Abdullah Kardus, but was denied an audience with him. Later on after being attacked in the street, he had approached the chief of police, but Cafferata refused to take any measures, telling him that "the Jews deserve it, you are the cause of all troubles." The next morning, Slonim again urged the District Officer to take preventative measures, but he was told there was "no ground for fear. A great number of police is available. Go and reassure the Jewish population." Two hours later, a mob incited by speeches started breaking into Jewish homes with cries of "Kill the Jews." The massacre lasted an hour and a half, and only after it had died down, did the police take action, firing shots into the air, whereupon the crowds immediately dispersed. Slonim himself was saved by a friendly Arab.[36]

Looting, destruction and desecration

The attack was accompanied by wanton destruction and looting. A Jewish hospital, which had provided treatment for Arabs, was attacked and ransacked. Numerous Jewish synagogues were vandalised and desecrated.[37] According to one account, Torah scrolls in casings of silver and gold were looted from the synagogues and manuscripts of great antiquity were pilfered from the library of Rabbi Judah Bibas.[38] The library, founded in 1852, was partly burned and destroyed.[39] In one instance, a rabbi who had saved a Torah scroll from a blazing synagogue, later died from his burns.[40]

Arabs shelter Jews
About two dozen Arab families hid Jews in their homes.[41]

Aharon Reuven Bernzweig related that an Arab named Haj Eissa El Kourdieh, saved a group of 33 Jews after he insisted they hide in his cellar. There they waited with a "deadly fear" for the trouble to pass, worrying that the "murderers outside would hear [the little children who kept crying]." From the cellar, they heard cries of "today is a day that is holy to Mohammed. Anyone who does not kill Jews is a sinner." Meanwhile, several Arab women, stood guard outside, repetitively challenging the claims of the screaming mob that they were sheltering Jews.[2] Yonah Molchadsky gave birth while taking refuge in an Arab basement. Molchadsky later related that when the mob demanded that Arabs give up any Jews they were hiding, her host told them "we have already killed our Jews," whereupon the mob departed.[42] The family of Abu Id Zaitoun rescued Zmira Mani and other Jews by hiding them in their cellar and protecting them with their swords. They later found policeman to escort them safely to the police station at Beit Romano.[43]

Survivors
Around 435 Jews, or two-thirds of the community, survived. Most were reportedly saved by Arab families, and around 130 saved themselves by hiding or by taking refuge in the British police station at Beit Romano on the outskirts of the city.[2] Israeli historian Benny Morris has disputed the account that most survivors were saved by Arab families, writing that "in fact, most were rescued by British police intervention and by the fact that many Jews successfully fended off their assailants for long hours – though to be sure, Arab neighbors did save several families".[44]

After order had been restored, all the Jews were gathered at the British police station where hundreds of people were confined for three days, without food or water. They were also forbidden from making telephone calls. All the survivors were then evacuated to Jerusalem.
 
Of course Israel won't draw the map--that's not how you negotiate. You don't walk into negotiations using your final position as your starting point!
Israel is not serious about wanting peace.

If it was serious it would create a map outlining what it thinks peace should look like. A starting position.

Since when in negotiations is giving a starting position unneeded?

And until it does, only fools think it is serious. Israel is about as serious as Americans were when they negotiated with the native Americans.

I think the majority of Israelis want peace. However politically advantageous as perceived in the minds of Zionists to perpetuate the conflict. This enables them to seize more Palestinian properties.
 
Not much. That part of the world was quiet for centuries under the Ottomans. Things started to heat up when WWI broke out, but the worst of the violence occurred when the British took over. The British had courted the Arabs to overthrow the Turks, promising them Arab self-determination. They had also forged deals with the Zionists to undermine the Arabs, promising support for a Jewish national home in Palestine. Meanwhile, the British were conspiring with France to divvy up the region between the two of them. Those mutually incompatible promises made things a hell of a lot worse than just a fight over unchecked immigration.

This is a pretty good overview of the fight for control.

Your own link notes multiple events - though it uses some glib language.

Sorry, I misread your post. I thought you were asking about prior to the 1920s.

As I said, things started to heat up when WWI broke out, but the worst of the violence occurred when the British took over. They took over in 1920. The violence your post describes is what I was talking about.
 
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Israel is not serious about wanting peace.

If it was serious it would create a map outlining what it thinks peace should look like. A starting position.

Since when in negotiations is giving a starting position unneeded?

And until it does, only fools think it is serious. Israel is about as serious as Americans were when they negotiated with the native Americans.

I think the majority of Israelis want peace. However politically advantageous as perceived in the minds of Zionists to perpetuate the conflict. This enables them to seize more Palestinian properties.
The majority of Israeli's deserve peace, but they keep electing people who have no intention of being the one who made that peace. The one who stopped expansion. The traitor.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin

'...In 1994, Rabin won the Nobel Peace Prize together with Shimon Peres and Yasir Arafat. He was assassinated by right-wing Israeli radical Yigal Amir, who was opposed to Rabin's signing of the Oslo Accords....'

On the evening of 4 November 1995 (12th of Heshvan on the Hebrew Calendar[30]), Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, a radical right-wing Orthodox Jew who opposed the signing of the Oslo Accords. Rabin had been attending a mass rally at the Kings of Israel Square (now Rabin Square) in Tel Aviv, held in support of the Oslo Accords....'


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Netanyahu#Oslo_Accords

'...Netanyahu opposed the Oslo accords from their inception. During his term as prime minister in the late 1990s, Netanyahu consistently reneged on commitments made by previous Israeli governments as part of the Oslo peace process, leading American peace envoy Dennis Ross to note that "neither President Clinton nor Secretary [of State Madeleine] Albright believed that Bibi had any real interest in pursuing peace."[108..'

Netanyahu is a duplicitous politician stalling as long as he can to further his agenda, politics 101.


Rabin and Sadat stepped out in front and took the risk,both assassinated.
 
Total nonsense.

Israel has been trading expansion for peace for almost 50 years. They want land, not peace. Once they get all the land they want then they might begin to think about peace.

Of course, this is how Israel created peace with Jordan and Egypt - trading land for peace. That's why Israel won't be conceding land to the Palestinians without getting some peace.
What land did Israel trade with Jordan?

As for Egypt, while there was land trade, only about 3000 settlers were evicted. West Bank has hundred times as many. It's like saying that if a person once bought an ice cream cone for $1, he therefore is likely to buy another ice cream cone for $100.

Historically, Israel has been much more likely to give up land when forced to do so. In Gaza, over 7000 settlers were evicted because Israel didn't want to deal with the terrorists. And when Israel was occupying Lebanon, Hezbollah managed to ensure that no settlers showed up in the first place, unlike every other territory Israel has occupied over the years. So if you want to use past behaviour as some sort of precedent as to how Palestinians might achieve peace with Israel, they are much more likely to get it by force than by negotiation.
 
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Of course Israel won't draw the map--that's not how you negotiate. You don't walk into negotiations using your final position as your starting point!
Israel is not serious about wanting peace.

If it was serious it would create a map outlining what it thinks peace should look like. A starting position.

Since when in negotiations is giving a starting position unneeded?

And until it does, only fools think it is serious. Israel is about as serious as Americans were when they negotiated with the native Americans.

Did you not read what I said??

You're asking them to break one of the basic rules of negotiation.
 
So if you want to use past behaviour as some sort of precedent as to how Palestinians might achieve peace with Israel, they are much more likely to get it by force than by negotiation.

Yep, any student of history would of course agree that the violent approach has led to things going swimmingly.

As an aside, I seem to recall Lebanon having a pretty peaceful relationship with Israel after signing the armistice agreement right up until Black September. Lemme go crack the ol' history book and see what happened there.
 
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