What to do for the unhoused?

[Bomb#20]

The mentality that's appalled by Steve's argument is the same mentality that's responsible for Ms. Ocasio-Cortez's Green New Deal gaffe, ...

What pray tell is that mentality you are referring to? If anything I am against the rose colored glasses of the progressives.

I know -- I think you must have misread my post as a result of your vision issues. I wasn't talking about you -- you are not one of the people who are appalled by your argument. The mentality I'm referring to is the rose colored glasses of the progressives, the mentality of Bilby and of "Angry Floof, TV and credit cards, Toni and 3 others", who are evidently thinking like the fools who got Ms. Occasio-Cortez to propose the GND in its original form that was such a public relations disaster for her.

If you disagree with first line then you are arguing with human nature.

Right you are.

 

[Gospel]

As a former homeless person, I've learned that society at large is the main (not only) source of its homelessness problem.

Quick examples:
When homeless society treats you like you've got some sort of plague that needs avoiding.
Because society treats you like the plague getting meaningful help from society is nearly nonexistent.
When society treats you like a plague your mental health is negatively affected.
When homeless you have no meaningful source of entertainment. Add that to being treated like the plague & entertainment (AKA escapism) turns into drug &/or alcohol abuse.
Society does not make a connection between how it treats homeless people & homeless people's mental health.
Since society sees you as some plague the programs put together by said society are lackluster and in many cases punish the homeless in ways that make it easier to remain homeless


I personally overcame homelessness in spite of society's disapproval. By disapproval I mean society ignoring me, brushing me off, not taking me seriously, blaming me for my condition despite them being the obstacle in my path. That sort of shit. I've learned to not be so wrapped up in society's world where they believe they are at no fault for the magnitude of homelessness happening under their very noses. The same noses they hold up high saying "we should or should not do this or that for the homeless" while in real-time turn those same noses away when passing homeless people on the streets consoling themselves with "it's their choice" or the more dominate "someone else is trying to help those folks; If only they wanted to help themselves".

 

[Trausti]

I personally overcame homelessness in spite of society's disapproval.

Would be interested in how you did that.

 

[Gospel]

I personally overcame homelessness in spite of society's disapproval.

Would be interested in how you did that.

Let's just say I had to stop appearing to be homeless in order to stop being homeless. The programs available to me sometime between (shooting from the hip here) 1999 & 2006 in New York only offered food & shelter in Bayshore Long Island, neither of which was sufficient enough to get on my feet. It was very intrusive (because society thought we're all drug and alcohol abusers (understandable yet not quite accurate view) that will blow their tax money yet they themselves are the largest contributors to both industries (I digress)). I personally took steps to improve my condition by lying and stealing my way out of it. The system was enough to keep me alive and not enough to get me to a place where I didn't need the system. It's also good to mention that the shelters fucking sucked. They were too intrusive in my personal life to be worth the damn trouble because they were filthy and unsafe. They wanted me to tell them what I'm doing every second of the day to protect their money but couldn't be arsed to make the shelter and food safe for me. They seemed to have a contract with other privately run Jop Corp (that's what I remember calling them) where you can be driven to places that need workers and returned to the office, but that money was swallowed by food & hygiene, like laundry (which the shelter did not offer) and soap (again the shelter did not offer that stuff, just the unsafe facility where other homeless people and staff steal your shit). food because the food was utter trash and wasn't much of a health improvement from dumpster diving. I at least got to eat a larger portion of trash from dumpsters.

I can't honestly say the programs suck all over the country but the bullshit I dealt with in New York was a reflection of that society since it's another extension of them and all. "Normal folks" find it hard to see the human in homeless people but if you don't know already... the feeling is fucking mutual.

 

[Gospel]

Oh and let's not get started on the police just busting through doors at any given time of the night because the staff called them over a disturbance between other tenants. It was like living in prison getting a cell check every now and then. Society has a motto called "people who accept our money must give up their personal freedoms in exchange" it seems.

Edit: For the record, I left the homeless shelter after trying it for a month & I was homeless for 2 years. Math that shit.
Edit 2: I kept parking lots clean for small shopping centers that paid me for the work and eventually gave me a job (after I stole work outfits from clothing stores & gamed the 24hr laundry machines with a key given to me by a laundry repairman.

Saved up cash & moved to Florida. I'm doing good now.

Edit3: the laundry machine man was a homeless man too.

 

[Gospel]

To answer the OP though. Treating them as human beings is a start. If we're going to throw money at the problem fine, just don't be stingy with the amount or put up restrictions you wouldn't want to go through yourself. Otherwise, you just push people away. Regardless of how dingy and run down we look, regardless of us talking to ourselves (some of us get really good at it), we are people that deserve to be treated with dignity. Some of us are indeed crazy & need mental health treatment, not shit food & unsafe envornments with power-thirsty pricks getting themselves off at the public's expense.

I say clean us up and let us govern ourselves. At least we'll get paid to screw up the job instead of a non-homeless employee getting paid to not solve the problem. Some homeless people actually make friends and care for each other. So pay us to take care of ourselves is what I say. maybe then we can use the funds you so kindly allow your public officials to NOT GIVE US for getting out of our homeless situation.


End Rant.

 

[Toni]

Edited to add after reading Gospel's posts above.

Start by treating them as human beings. In each and every single step. As valued human beings.

There are clearly different types of needs and different types of housing needed.

Some people need temporary (from a few nights to some months) housing because they are fleeing a domestic abuse situation. This sort of housing needs to be cheap or free, secure (economically and from any sort of unwanted person accessing the property) and also often a variety of counseling: substance abuse and/or dealing with those who have substance abuse problems, legal aid for those who need help protecting themselves, children and other dependents and property and possibly getting a divorce or otherwise separating property and money. Child care, therapy for children and adults. Counseling for managing money, literacy classes, and other classes, even for basic home repairs. Not only to give skills but to help build self sufficiency and esteem. Access to health care and transportation that is affordable/free.

The same sort of housing for adolescents who are runaways or throwaways. They need at least a broad subset of the services above, targeted especially for those in that age group. Helping to attain GED, helping to deal with sexual orientation issues/abuse. Help gaining marketable job skills and coaching to get and keep a job. Prevention of STIs. General mental health support and treatment. Many/most are victims of abuse at home or from close family members or friends of the family. To say that there are trust issues would be an extreme understatement.

Housing for those who are homeless temporarily because of economic set backs/job losses, death of breadwinner, etc. Must include family housing, counseling for mental health and substance abuse issues that may be present, job training/coaching. Economic literacy coaching: how to manage money. Debt counseling/forgiveness. Sometimes this can be adequately addressed by Section 8 housing, assuming there is an adequate supply in the area to meet the need. The community, either as part of the housing or with easy access for those living in the housing should also make available whatever support services are needed: mental health, basic home maintenance and repair, auto repair, the services mentioned above. Strong educational support for all members of the family.

And what I think is most difficult:

Housing for the mentally ill and those with substance abuse problems, grouped here because of the almost ubiquitous overlap of issues and needs. Obvious need for mental health services, addiction services, support, job training, etc.

In each case, I think the housing should not be concentrated in high density housing units but in smaller clusters and located near public transportation, health and mental health services, educational services, job training.

I'm sure I'm overlooking things.

 

[TSwizzle]

You couldn’t make this shit up;

Homeless man sues San Rafael, citing unlivable conditions at city-run encampment

Many parents walk their children to school for safety reasons, but not many encounter the things Jacques Bidjima and his children face on their walks in San Francisco's Tenderloin.

News

 

[TV and credit cards]

You couldn’t make this shit up;

Homeless man sues San Rafael, citing unlivable conditions at city-run encampment

Many parents walk their children to school for safety reasons, but not many encounter the things Jacques Bidjima and his children face on their walks in San Francisco's Tenderloin.

News

Other than the opening statement, I totally agree with your post.


Society does have a responsibility to take care of the less fortunate. It should be a priority of the more fortunate. For those so lacking in character as not to see this, a duty should be placed upon their earnings.

Remember when you were young? When you were discovering your strengths and limitations? Imagine coming up empty-handed, realizing you have no strengths, only limitations. Imagine further the gods burdened you with the asocial tendencies that inhibits you from the needed interactions to get and maintain employment. Imagine further these negative traits are familial in nature landing you with no support group whatsoever.
What do we do for these people? Do they deserve anything beyond an existence exposed to the elements, a life of great discomfort and pain eased only by drugs?
Should the talented, the intelligent, the self-actualized, who for them, life is a joy, ease their burden? And all of us in the middle, can we do with a little less? A little less comfort, one less luxury, a barely perceptible amount from all that we have? I can.

 

[Gospel]

society seriously needs to treat the homeless like the talented people they are. Not all homeless people are just sitting around with no talent or skills. Many of those people used to be tellers for banks, office employees, military servicewomen and men, musicians, chiefs. Ya know, normal folks. I don't understand why we aren't giving at minimum giving homeless people jobs at shelters? I'm certain they can do just as good of a job running the place as a non-homeless person being that they are one and the same. Maybe that is happening and I don't know, but the shelter I went to was employed by people who weren't nor ever were homeless themselves. Seems like a missed opportunity to put the money where it matters. It's also a fairly easy change to make.

 

[Gospel]

Here is another idea since It makes no sense to me that all the information I had to provide to the shelter wasn't used to my benefit at all. Why not set up a bank account for me so that I can have someplace to cash my checks without getting charged? Hell, they could have taken it a bit further and handed me a debit card and said, "every item you buy using this card gets the sales tax credited back to the account since we've granted you Tax Exempt Status". Would have been really helpful, it's also beyond me why what little income I was earning was being taxed so why not set up a system where if you are registered at a homeless shelter your income is not taxed. That would be an incentive to live in that birdshit capsule.

 

[Toni]

Here is another idea since It makes no sense to me that all the information I had to provide to the shelter wasn't used to my benefit at all. Why not set up a bank account for me so that I can have someplace to cash my checks without getting charged? Hell, they could have taken it a bit further and handed me a debit card and said, "every item you buy using this card gets the sales tax credited back to the account since we've granted you Tax Exempt Status". Would have been really helpful, it's also beyond me why what little income I was earning was being taxed so why not set up a system where if you are registered at a homeless shelter your income is not taxed. That would be an incentive to live in that birdshit capsule.

I sometimes forget that some people cannot get bank accounts. Without a bank account, any paycheck you cash will cost you a premium that you can't afford. A lot of employers these days ONLY direct deposit pay checks. Without a permanent address, it's difficult/impossible to get hired. Without a phone, it's difficult/impossible to get a job interview or get hired.

 

[bigfield]

society seriously needs to treat the homeless like the talented people they are. Not all homeless people are just sitting around with no talent or skills. Many of those people used to be tellers for banks, office employees, military servicewomen and men, musicians, chiefs. Ya know, normal folks. I don't understand why we aren't giving at minimum giving homeless people jobs at shelters? I'm certain they can do just as good of a job running the place as a non-homeless person being that they are one and the same. Maybe that is happening and I don't know, but the shelter I went to was employed by people who weren't nor ever were homeless themselves. Seems like a missed opportunity to put the money where it matters. It's also a fairly easy change to make.

I had a similar theory about Centrelink, Australia's welfare office. People would often report that the offices were half-empty, the queues were long, and callers were sometimes kept on hold for hours. Why not kill two birds with one stone, and employ some job-seekers at the welfare office? The problem with my idea, with respect to that particular problem, was that the bad service was deliberate: the government wanted welfare claimants to suffer. The minister(s) in charge were imposing their conservative political ideology on the department.

I have a separate, but not entirely unrelated, theory about soup kitchens, which also applies to homeless shelters, which I'll just copy-paste below. The short version is that that volunteering in homeless shelters are designed to be a perpetual outlet for personal charity.

Volonteering in a homeless shelter was the final nail in the woke coffin. That's when I realised that those who took their time to help mostly identified as Conservative. Conservatives did practical things to help. Progressives mostly went to parties.

I'm not defending conservatives now. I see it more as that today's progressives have been seduced into territory that is an ideological dead end.

Soup kitchens are entirely consistent with religious conservatives' values. A lot of church communities put a high value on charity and community service.

However, there seems to be a common idea among conservatives that this kind of charity should exist instead of government-run welfare. Government should stay out of the business of helping the needy, because that is the job of the people. Therefore, the purpose of charity is not simply to help those in need, but to have in place a social hierarchy where everyone has a place. Some people's place is to be a beggar; some people's place is to be a virtuous volunteer or donor.

I've seen a few conservatives boast online that they are the ones feeding and clothing the homeless, but at the same time, those same people oppose more ambitious projects that would actually put people in houses and buy food for themselves. Those more ambitious projects are typically characterised as left-wing policies, because government assumes the community's responsibility to look after the poor. Do these conservatives feel like they are being robbed of an opportunity to be charitable? Do they disagree with who exactly government is helping? I don't really understand the attitude.

I think you'll find that progressives do practical things to help as well, but you're probably looking in the wrong places. Progressives are more likely to make practical help their full time occupation. For an example specific to homelessness, there are social workers whose full time job is to find vulnerable people a place to live and a job, and they work within a network of other people whose full time job is providing for people's wellbeing and future. Mind you, you might not meet these people if your social calendar finds you mixing with pretentious wankers at art exhibitions.

 

[steve_bank]

The Robin Hood approach will not work, take from the rich and give to the poor. The progressive mantra. A lot of money has been spent on the problem in Seattle over the last 20 years with little benefit.

Taking care of the homeless? What does th t meam?

Back in the 70s I knew a guy who used to criticize me for working a job. He had a temp job picking apples and he asked me to cash his check. He had no bank account. Hd took no responsibility for anything.

You can not ignore human nature. There will be some who take an asy path if it is available. Bill Clinton a democrat pushed welfare reform. Welfare to get on your own, not a lifetime of support.

 

[Gospel]

Nice, it's another one of those posts that no-shit-Sherlocks us while offering zero solutions. There are people that are going to game the system no matter what that system is. We should do away with all systems right Steve?