What to do for the unhoused?

[bilby]

One thing that I think would help:

Provide facilities to live in, built tough but crude. Think beefed-up self-storage place plus prison type toilets. Publish the specs. If 90% of the existing facilities in a city have an occupant the city is obligated to buy more. If there are at least three independent offerings (private companies building on spec) then the city is obligated to buy the cheapest offering within 10 days. If there are less than three offerings the city buys the cheapest but the price is fixed at the previous price adjusted to constant dollars. (In other words, the city can't be held hostage to a monopoly.) Note that "cheapest" can vary based on the situation--the city needs to buy enough to get the utilization down, but they are going to be sold in chunks, not individually.

The problem is a significant number of the homeless here in Seattle simply do not want housing that has any restrictions. They are not starving and they can go to an ER for medical help along with clinics.

I ever give money to homeless people panhandling because I know there are resources for them.

They have no incentive to get into any kind of structured life.

Before police cleared out the 3rd and Pike area I could pick out regulars who hung out during the day. It was at my buss stop.

Look at the link on Seattle tiny houses. There are people who would rather sleep on the street or in a homeless camp that stay at a prison like style dormitory. There are places where they can sleep at night on cots with bathrooms.

Hotels are bing purchased for housing, but the problem remainns that there is no way to enforce rules and make people stay.

If you look at the homeless as just regular people who need a place to stay you will not get the nature of the prblem.

From what you are saying here, the nature of the problem is that the homeless people want to be treated like free, adult, human beings with the right to self determination; While you want to only provide any kind of assistance to them if they agree to be treated like retarded children who should do as they are told by their betters, ideally without asking questions, much less objecting.

Why the fuck should our charity come with 'restrictions'? Either you want to help, or you want to dictate how people should live. A moral person would choose the former, and I am wondering what's wrong with you, that makes you choose the latter, apparently without even noticing that you're making a choice at all.

 

[bigfield]

One thing that I think would help:

Provide facilities to live in, built tough but crude. Think beefed-up self-storage place plus prison type toilets. Publish the specs. If 90% of the existing facilities in a city have an occupant the city is obligated to buy more. If there are at least three independent offerings (private companies building on spec) then the city is obligated to buy the cheapest offering within 10 days. If there are less than three offerings the city buys the cheapest but the price is fixed at the previous price adjusted to constant dollars. (In other words, the city can't be held hostage to a monopoly.) Note that "cheapest" can vary based on the situation--the city needs to buy enough to get the utilization down, but they are going to be sold in chunks, not individually.

Sounds like commie blocks, but like a shittier version.

But this does highlight a shortcoming in American culture, and an even greater failure of Australian culture: you/we aren't willing to invest in effective social housing. There are no practical reasons for this; we simply don't build this infrastructure because property development is an entirely private enterprise, property developers have an extraordinary amount of political influence, and they only want to build the things that maximise their profits.

There are a lot of powerful, connected stakeholders who will crush any reformer who tries to cut in on their action with some kind of large-scale bolshie housing plan.

 

[TSwizzle]

People show up to get free housing are left disappointed and angry;

Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) tried to stop the publication of a news story about Los Angeles’ homeless crisis this week, reportedly telling a Los Angeles Times scribe: “You’ll hurt yourself and the community trying to put this together.” The Wednesday story by investigative reporter Connor Sheets detailed a March 25 incident in South Los Angeles, where hundreds of homeless people tried to obtain Section 8 housing vouchers after being misled by social media rumors. The would-be applicants crashed an event held by nonprofit advocacy group Fathers and Mothers Who Care, which had been meant to help the unhoused obtain emergency shelter. The confusion reportedly overwhelmed the non-profit as well as Los Angeles Housing Services Authority (LAHSA) workers who told the unexpected arrivals that they would only be able to provide their information and enter an emergency housing database. At one point, Waters told the crowd: “I want everybody to go home,” triggering an angry response. When contacted by the LA Times Tuesday, Waters requested the story not be published, saying “it’s a bunch of rumors.” “You’ll hurt yourself and the community trying to put this together without background,” she told Sheets, according to the report. “I don’t want you to start trying to write it, you won’t understand it.”

NY Post

 

[ZiprHead]

People show up to get free housing are left disappointed and angry;

Section 8 housing isn't free,

 

[Toni]

Mustn't forget the drug-addicted unhoused. They are the most numerous among the homeless. In 2017 the National Coalition for the Homeless has found that 38% of homeless people are alcohol dependent.

Is that cause or effect? Or a combination of the two?

Addiction is a common response to having a shit life and no clear way to improve it other than by obliterating the experience with whatever drugs are readily available (and in our society, that starts with alcohol, which is by far the easiest drug to obtain).

Substance abuse is often both cause and effect of a variety of mental illnesses. I think that sometimes, people abuse substances in an unconscious desire to cope with or treat undiagnosed mental illnesses.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

If you look at the homeless as just regular people who need a place to stay you will not get the nature of the problem.

So perhaps the missing gorilla in the OP's list of categories is homeless people who are comfortable being homeless.

 

[Politesse]

the current homeless population doesn't breed more homeless people, it's not like the homeless are replicated from others - 100% of all homeless people are formerly homed.

This is untrue, plenty of children are born on the street or end up there early in life. At least a thousand a year are born into the shelter system here in the US, and an unknown number never enter it. It is in fact very common for an unexpected pregnancy to be the proximate reason why young women become homeless in the first place.

Agree with the rest of your post to some degree, but I also think that the rate of new homeless individuals would also fall were sufficient housing options established. No, the phenomenon of homelessness can't be fixed with a "one-stop shop", but most (humane) proposed solutions would help a lot of human beings in tangible ways, and are worth pursuing whether or not they end homelessness altogether.

 

[steve_bank]

Today 6 people took a 10 minute joy ride into space, while more working people can not afford rent.

Homelesness is a symptom of a larger issue in the economy, income and wealth disparity. In our 19th century free market model people are ntirely free to do what they will with their money. The wealthy can build a 1 billion dollar sports stadium in a city where pepole are stuggling to find housing.

 

[steve_bank]

If you look at the homeless as just regular people who need a place to stay you will not get the nature of the problem.

So perhaps the missing gorilla in the OP's list of categories is homeless people who are comfortable being homeless.

There is truth to that. There are people who work but live in a car when they lose an apartment. There are people who have adapted to living on the streets who will never be able to lead a normal structured life.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

I wish I had a universal answer, though I suspect a huge investment in supported gov't housing would put a dent in the problem. And would do the economy no harm at all. So, win/win.

One solution that has always seemed well intentioned but counter productive is the charity which provides swags for the homeless.

It seems like a Bandaid. By acceptance, I feel it entrenches the situation. I have also wondered if they make users targets for violence, and for the loss of whatever possessions they have.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One thing that I think would help:

Provide facilities to live in, built tough but crude. Think beefed-up self-storage place plus prison type toilets. Publish the specs. If 90% of the existing facilities in a city have an occupant the city is obligated to buy more. If there are at least three independent offerings (private companies building on spec) then the city is obligated to buy the cheapest offering within 10 days. If there are less than three offerings the city buys the cheapest but the price is fixed at the previous price adjusted to constant dollars. (In other words, the city can't be held hostage to a monopoly.) Note that "cheapest" can vary based on the situation--the city needs to buy enough to get the utilization down, but they are going to be sold in chunks, not individually.

Sounds like commie blocks, but like a shittier version.

But this does highlight a shortcoming in American culture, and an even greater failure of Australian culture: you/we aren't willing to invest in effective social housing. There are no practical reasons for this; we simply don't build this infrastructure because property development is an entirely private enterprise, property developers have an extraordinary amount of political influence, and they only want to build the things that maximise their profits.

There are a lot of powerful, connected stakeholders who will crush any reformer who tries to cut in on their action with some kind of large-scale bolshie housing plan.

When you simply stick them in normal housing you get destroyed housing--most of them are fine but some of them are not. That's why I was proposing a solution that wouldn't mean having to keep repairing the place.

 

[TV and credit cards]

If you look at the homeless as just regular people who need a place to stay you will not get the nature of the problem.

So perhaps the missing gorilla in the OP's list of categories is homeless people who are comfortable being homeless.

I can’t imagine there are many people who are comfortable being homeless. I think they like most of us accept/rationalize their lot in life. Unless you happen to live on the Big Rock Candy Mountain, constant exposure to the elements, inadequate clothing and food is undesirable to even the most psychotic among us.
There are various issues, financial and psychological that land people on the streets. Effective programs address these issues accordingly. Single mothers need child care in order to work. The destitute and dying deserve hospice. The psychologically troubled, those who cannot be brought in off the streets deserve food, water, a blanket, and toothbrush. This builds rapport, a bridge to their troubled minds. Substance abuse treatment availability, special needs housing, transportation, job placement training, etc. Whatever the need.


It’s easy to recognize “the projects” in your area. Less conspicuous are the communities you’d have to look up on line to find. I was born in the projects, converted army housing. There are also the housing high rises used so often in police crime dramas on tv. And the noticeable row houses. I drive by these on a regular basis. From all outwardly appearance, they do not look particularly trashed. But what neighborhood doesn’t have its occasional dirtbag family? Maybe the little vandals hide all their destruction on the inside. I mean, who wouldn’t want to break their own toilet?
We have some really nice special needs housing in my town. They have a pet sitting business, coffee shop, and greenhouses. Their neighborhood looks nicer than most. And I think that is the main issue with homeless and public housing. Appearance. Sure, one can find reason to bitch. After all there are more troubled minds among them than the self sufficient. But you’d be hard pressed to convince me it’s not mostly a NIMBY thing.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

People who live on the streets do so for a variety of reasons. So I’d like to hear a variety of solutions.

What to do for the poverty-induced unhoused?
What to do for the mental health-induced unhoused?
What to do for the free-spirit unhoused?
What to do for the runaway teen unhoused?
Other causes of homelessness?

Why, we keep on beating them down, so the caste immediately above them can see that they are better off, even though they are really underpaid serfs.

And people wonder why there are riots.

 

[steve_bank]

In a show on South American aborigines in the Amazon it was said they are as comforable in the jungle as yiu are in yiur living room/ Humas have a capacity to adapt to and normalize extremes.

Are Eskimos comfortable living in frigid climates in igloos?

You ahve to see some of street dwellings. One I saw had a low fence around it with neat and orderly belongs outsode the ent.

It is not a rationalization to say nothing should be done.

If you do not see and hear it first hand yiu will bot grasp the extent of mental ilness on the street. If you are walking around Seattle yiu are faced with it. Delusional ranting on the street. Violent anger.

Right now police or any agency hace no authority to compel such people into treatment and shelters. Communities used to have vagrancy and loitering laws. tI has been deemed that mentally ill people as citizens have a right to be crazy on the streets.

Today I went to Pike and 3rd to get my meds at a drug store 3 blocks from Pike Place Market. It is a major tourist spot for cruise ships. A guy was standing in the middle of the road ranting.

There are success stories .People who get shelter and support , find a job, and move into regular housng. But there are people who do not follow up on referrals and people who just walk away from housing and treatment.

I heard two guys talking an a streetcar, one was homeless and needed meds. As we passed Sweidish Hospital on pointed to it and said just go in and ask for metal help. they may have programs that will get you meds and help find housing. The homeless guy said he was not interested.

A brand new facility is opening up in the area but for anly around 40 people. It will be staffed with drug and mental health support. Peole near these places do not want them because of the potential for dru, assaults, s and crime. Places like that can not detain people, they are free to leave.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you look at the homeless as just regular people who need a place to stay you will not get the nature of the problem.

So perhaps the missing gorilla in the OP's list of categories is homeless people who are comfortable being homeless.

I can’t imagine there are many people who are comfortable being homeless. I think they like most of us accept/rationalize their lot in life. Unless you happen to live on the Big Rock Candy Mountain, constant exposure to the elements, inadequate clothing and food is undesirable to even the most psychotic among us.
There are various issues, financial and psychological that land people on the streets. Effective programs address these issues accordingly. Single mothers need child care in order to work. The destitute and dying deserve hospice. The psychologically troubled, those who cannot be brought in off the streets deserve food, water, a blanket, and toothbrush. This builds rapport, a bridge to their troubled minds. Substance abuse treatment availability, special needs housing, transportation, job placement training, etc. Whatever the need.

It's not that they are comfortable on the streets. Rather, they are more comfortable on the streets than complying with the rules of the shelter, or with the conditions inside the shelter.

 

[Hermit]

Bring back the Vagabonds and Beggars Act 1494, I say. That'll solve the homelessness problem once and for all.

The Act stated that "vagabonds, idle and suspected persons shall be set in the stocks for three days and three nights and have none other sustenance but bread and water and then shall be put out of Town. Every beggar suitable to work shall resort to the Hundred where he last dwelled, is best known, or was born and there remain upon the pain aforesaid."[1]

 

[bilby]

Bring back the Vagabonds and Beggars Act 1494, I say. That'll solve the homelessness problem once and for all.

The Act stated that "vagabonds, idle and suspected persons shall be set in the stocks for three days and three nights and have none other sustenance but bread and water and then shall be put out of Town. Every beggar suitable to work shall resort to the Hundred where he last dwelled, is best known, or was born and there remain upon the pain aforesaid."[1]

Well I did a survey of homeless people, and not one of them was on the streets in the sixteenth century, so clearly that worked very well indeed.

 

[Hermit]

Bring back the Vagabonds and Beggars Act 1494, I say. That'll solve the homelessness problem once and for all.

The Act stated that "vagabonds, idle and suspected persons shall be set in the stocks for three days and three nights and have none other sustenance but bread and water and then shall be put out of Town. Every beggar suitable to work shall resort to the Hundred where he last dwelled, is best known, or was born and there remain upon the pain aforesaid."[1]

Well I did a survey of homeless people, and not one of them was on the streets in the sixteenth century, so clearly that worked very well indeed.

Of course it did. Henry III contributed to the solution during his 34 year reign by having 72,000 of his 2.5 million subjects hanged for what would now be regarded as petty crimes such as stealing half a loaf of bread. Most of the executed were homeless.

 

[steve_bank]

I think it was Moore who wrote that society creates the conditions in which people are born poor, then punishes them for it when they have to steal to live.

I found the JFK adress on relgion for anoter thread. In it back then he comments that we were spending money sending rockets into space and ignoring poverty.

 

[bilby]

“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread” - Anatole France