What will the Clintoncrats do if Bernie wins nomination?

[Jolly_Penguin]

If Bernie wins the nomination, what will the corporate Democrats (Clintoncrats) do next? Do you think they will stick with the drum beat of Trump-worst or do you predict movements for Trump over Bernie by them? I am uncertain. They have suffered a fake populist, but would their interests survive the real thing?

 

[PyramidHead]

If Bernie wins the most votes, but not the majority, he will be sidelined at the convention. If and when that happens, that will be the end of the Democratic party. And honestly, if that's all that comes out of this, I will still count it as a win.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If Bernie wins the nomination, what will the corporate Democrats (Clintoncrats) do next? Do you think they will stick with the drum beat of Trump-worst or do you predict movements for Trump over Bernie by them? I am uncertain.

You also had high hopes for Yang. Sanders isn't popular with the mainstream DNC, but he has developed a small wing in the Democrat Party and, in general, his platform is very popular. I think the big thing with Sanders will be trying to determine who to put as his running mate. There is room for balance there.

They have suffered a fake populist, but would their interests survive the real thing?

Seeing that the Democrats 100% assuredly can't take a super majority in the Senate in 2020 and a majority isn't exactly a sure thing either, his enacted policies are not going to rock the capitalistic world. And being a President, doesn't give him the power to do all that much without Congress giving a thumbs up... and there are very few very liberal Democrats in Congress.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If Bernie wins the most votes, but not the majority, he will be sidelined at the convention. If and when that happens, that will be the end of the Democratic party. And honestly, if that's all that comes out of this, I will still count it as a win.

What is with all this negative bullshit?! It is like you want the Democrats and Sanders to lose.

 

[PyramidHead]

If Bernie wins the most votes, but not the majority, he will be sidelined at the convention. If and when that happens, that will be the end of the Democratic party. And honestly, if that's all that comes out of this, I will still count it as a win.

What is with all this negative bullshit?! It is like you want the Democrats and Sanders to lose.

What I want is for the Democratic party as it exists to be demolished and replaced with one that actually functions and is responsive to the needs of the working class, and that is going to happen whether Bernie Sanders is the nominee and makes it happen or whether he is denied the nomination and the party implodes as a result. The third option would be if Bernie loses the nomination convincingly, which would not trigger the same outcome, but it might trigger a mass exodus of progressives and leftists to a third party (also a good outcome). So, as much as I have a disdain for electoral politics as a solution for anything, I'm actually pretty optimistic about the future.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If Bernie wins the most votes, but not the majority, he will be sidelined at the convention. If and when that happens, that will be the end of the Democratic party. And honestly, if that's all that comes out of this, I will still count it as a win.

What is with all this negative bullshit?! It is like you want the Democrats and Sanders to lose.

What I want is for the Democratic party as it exists to be demolished and replaced with one that actually functions and is responsive to the needs of the working class, and that is going to happen whether Bernie Sanders is the nominee and makes it happen or whether he is denied the nomination and the party implodes as a result. The third option would be if Bernie loses the nomination convincingly, which would not trigger the same outcome, but it might trigger a mass exodus of progressives and leftists to a third party (also a good outcome). So, as much as I have a disdain for electoral politics as a solution for anything, I'm actually pretty optimistic about the future.

Once the GOP gains complete control, they aren't giving it up.

 

[PyramidHead]

What I want is for the Democratic party as it exists to be demolished and replaced with one that actually functions and is responsive to the needs of the working class, and that is going to happen whether Bernie Sanders is the nominee and makes it happen or whether he is denied the nomination and the party implodes as a result. The third option would be if Bernie loses the nomination convincingly, which would not trigger the same outcome, but it might trigger a mass exodus of progressives and leftists to a third party (also a good outcome). So, as much as I have a disdain for electoral politics as a solution for anything, I'm actually pretty optimistic about the future.

Once the GOP gains complete control, they aren't giving it up.

Millions of people with a chip on their shoulder and nothing to lose is a better weapon against entrenched power than whatever the fuck the Democratic party has done to prevent the rise of extreme right-wing fascism in America. Their response has been to grant the GOP the monetary and material resources to do whatever they want, while making empty performative gestures of resistance to rile up Trevor Noah's studio audience. If you don't want the GOP to run your life, stop supporting the people who let them get away with doing that. Stop voting for the people who want to compromise with them, or run a unity ticket with them. Stop running interference for people who were in their party until recently, or donated to their Congressional candidates. Stop pretending Trump is an inexplicable anomaly in politics rather than the predictable outcome of weak-to-nonexistent opposition to the GOP by the only force that can legitimately challenge it.

 

[ZiprHead]

If Bernie wins the most votes, but not the majority, he will be sidelined at the convention. If and when that happens, that will be the end of the Democratic party. And honestly, if that's all that comes out of this, I will still count it as a win.

What is with all this negative bullshit?! It is like you want the Democrats and Sanders to lose.

What I want is for the Democratic party as it exists to be demolished and replaced with one that actually functions and is responsive to the needs of the working class, and that is going to happen whether Bernie Sanders is the nominee and makes it happen or whether he is denied the nomination and the party implodes as a result. The third option would be if Bernie loses the nomination convincingly, which would not trigger the same outcome, but it might trigger a mass exodus of progressives and leftists to a third party (also a good outcome). So, as much as I have a disdain for electoral politics as a solution for anything, I'm actually pretty optimistic about the future.

You don't think things through very well, do you. That would guarantee republican dominance.

 

[Ford]

What I want is for the Democratic party as it exists to be demolished and replaced with one that actually functions and is responsive to the needs of the working class, and that is going to happen whether Bernie Sanders is the nominee and makes it happen or whether he is denied the nomination and the party implodes as a result. The third option would be if Bernie loses the nomination convincingly, which would not trigger the same outcome, but it might trigger a mass exodus of progressives and leftists to a third party (also a good outcome). So, as much as I have a disdain for electoral politics as a solution for anything, I'm actually pretty optimistic about the future.

You don't think things through very well, do you. That would guarantee republican dominance.

The Sanders supporters want to destroy the Democratic Party in order to "save it," or in other words, turn it into the Bernie Sanders Party. Much like what happened to the GOP with Trump. It has morphed from an old guard conservative party to a party wholly owned by evangelicals, and finally into a cult of personality around one man.

Like Trump supporters, Bernie supporters have come to believe that their future lies in the ideas of one man. Rather than a "big tent" where there's room for everyone, it's a pup tent with room for just one leader. Anyone who believes otherwise is not a "True Progressive." They forget that Bernie only became a Democrat out of political expediency, is not an "outsider" (he's been in Washington since Bush 41 was President), and speaks in talking points and slogans like all the other career politicians. His supporters have decided that it's not Bernie who is wrong...it's the whole party, and if the party has to be purged of all the non-believers, then so be it.

 

[Elixir]

If Bernie wins the most votes, but not the majority, he will be sidelined at the convention. If and when that happens, that will be the end of the Democratic party. And honestly, if that's all that comes out of this, I will still count it as a win.

What is with all this negative bullshit?! It is like you want the Democrats and Sanders to lose.

What I want is for the Democratic party as it exists to be demolished and replaced with one that actually functions and is responsive to the needs of the working class, and that is going to happen whether Bernie Sanders is the nominee and makes it happen or whether he is denied the nomination and the party implodes as a result. The third option would be if Bernie loses the nomination convincingly, which would not trigger the same outcome, but it might trigger a mass exodus of progressives and leftists to a third party (also a good outcome). So, as much as I have a disdain for electoral politics as a solution for anything, I'm actually pretty optimistic about the future.

I'll take door #3, since it's the only one that preserves the United States of America in anything like a recognizable form. The other two options give Cheato and Vlad four more years to dismantle the country and turn it into the workers' hell of their dreams. If you don't think that would be the outcome of the other two scenarios, you're seriously misled.

 

[laughing dog]

What I want is for the Democratic party as it exists to be demolished and replaced with one that actually functions and is responsive to the needs of the working class, and that is going to happen whether Bernie Sanders is the nominee and makes it happen or whether he is denied the nomination and the party implodes as a result. The third option would be if Bernie loses the nomination convincingly, which would not trigger the same outcome, but it might trigger a mass exodus of progressives and leftists to a third party (also a good outcome). So, as much as I have a disdain for electoral politics as a solution for anything, I'm actually pretty optimistic about the future.

Once the GOP gains complete control, they aren't giving it up.

Millions of people with a chip on their shoulder and nothing to lose is a better weapon against entrenched power than whatever the fuck the Democratic party has done to prevent the rise of extreme right-wing fascism in America. Their response has been to grant the GOP the monetary and material resources to do whatever they want, while making empty performative gestures of resistance to rile up Trevor Noah's studio audience. If you don't want the GOP to run your life, stop supporting the people who let them get away with doing that. Stop voting for the people who want to compromise with them, or run a unity ticket with them. Stop running interference for people who were in their party until recently, or donated to their Congressional candidates. Stop pretending Trump is an inexplicable anomaly in politics rather than the predictable outcome of weak-to-nonexistent opposition to the GOP by the only force that can legitimately challenge it.

Of course this analysis ignores the role of the Bernie bros and everyone else who is not part of the Democratic Party elite who allowed the GOP to become so entrenched. The level of delusion exhibited by the Sanders faithful is on par with the level of delusion of the Trump faithful, and frankly, I despair for my country if over half the population is not tethered to reality.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What I want is for the Democratic party as it exists to be demolished and replaced with one that actually functions and is responsive to the needs of the working class, and that is going to happen whether Bernie Sanders is the nominee and makes it happen or whether he is denied the nomination and the party implodes as a result. The third option would be if Bernie loses the nomination convincingly, which would not trigger the same outcome, but it might trigger a mass exodus of progressives and leftists to a third party (also a good outcome). So, as much as I have a disdain for electoral politics as a solution for anything, I'm actually pretty optimistic about the future.

You don't think things through very well, do you. That would guarantee republican dominance.

The Sanders supporters want to destroy the Democratic Party in order to "save it," or in other words, turn it into the Bernie Sanders Party.

Well, maybe some of them. I actually don't know if I know a Sanders supporter. There is so much noise online, it is hard to know what the typical actual Sanders supporter thinks.

Much like what happened to the GOP with Trump. It has morphed from an old guard conservative party to a party wholly owned by evangelicals, and finally into a cult of personality around one man.

Yeah... tyranny of the minority, protected by the majority? Odd.

Like Trump supporters, Bernie supporters have come to believe that their future lies in the ideas of one man. Rather than a "big tent" where there's room for everyone, it's a pup tent with room for just one leader. Anyone who believes otherwise is not a "True Progressive." They forget that Bernie only became a Democrat out of political expediency, is not an "outsider" (he's been in Washington since Bush 41 was President), and speaks in talking points and slogans like all the other career politicians. His supporters have decided that it's not Bernie who is wrong...it's the whole party, and if the party has to be purged of all the non-believers, then so be it.

I remember feeling that way in college. It is frustrating to realize that the world doesn't "get it". And honestly, many in America continue to vote against their well being. And that isn't going to change. And the delusion that a progressive Jesus is going to swell up a massive progressive turnout is clinically insane. Heck, the one bad thing about Sanders' results in Iowa... he didn't get this crazy rabid out of the woodwork turnout of atypical voters, like Trump did.

That said, Sanders gets the nomination, Sanders is going to get my vote!

But the Sanders supporters need to calm down... and not make Independents think this is some sort of fucking revolution! Because:

1) It ain't.
2) It'll drive away General Election votes. Sanders will already be attacked unmercifully as "a communist."

 

[PyramidHead]

What I want is for the Democratic party as it exists to be demolished and replaced with one that actually functions and is responsive to the needs of the working class, and that is going to happen whether Bernie Sanders is the nominee and makes it happen or whether he is denied the nomination and the party implodes as a result. The third option would be if Bernie loses the nomination convincingly, which would not trigger the same outcome, but it might trigger a mass exodus of progressives and leftists to a third party (also a good outcome). So, as much as I have a disdain for electoral politics as a solution for anything, I'm actually pretty optimistic about the future.

I'll take door #3, since it's the only one that preserves the United States of America in anything like a recognizable form.

That's what I am hoping to avoid. We live in a depraved shithole of a country that needs to be transformed beyond recognition, or the world ends from climate disaster and perpetual war. Any Democratic opposition to the right that aligns with the mainstream political establishment preserves the conditions that led to Trump in the first place and is more harmful in the long run that 4 more years of Trump.

 

[PyramidHead]

There is no cult of personality around Bernie Sanders, as a large fraction base is made of people who were utterly unfazed by that of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. The idea that there is anything special about Bernie as a person, or as a leader, is a product of projection. It's not about him, it's about the agenda he would provide support for as President. The entire point of his movement, which none of his critics can understand, is that he isn't guaranteeing success or "promising the moon"; he is promising protracted, massive political struggle into the indefinite future, and is the only candidate who (a) acknowledges how challenging that struggle will be and how necessary it is to carry forward, and (b) is wholly on the side of the working class in America when it comes to waging it. And that means identifying clearly and repeatedly the bad actors in society whose behavior is detrimental to the struggle, which absolutely includes the Democratic party as well as the Republican party.

 

[Elixir]

Any Democratic opposition to the right that aligns with the mainstream political establishment preserves the conditions that led to Trump in the first place and is more harmful in the long run that 4 more years of Trump.

... you were doing so well up to there. And your following post was your best yet, as far as explaining the "Bernie phenomenon". But ...
The conditions that led to Trump no longer exist. Any conditions that could lead to exorcising him from this government will be gone forever if he is re-elected, or is able to convince the military that he was elected, or that he should have been.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

If Bernie wins the nomination, what will the corporate Democrats (Clintoncrats) do next? Do you think they will stick with the drum beat of Trump-worst or do you predict movements for Trump over Bernie by them? I am uncertain.

You also had high hopes for Yang.

I still do have high hopes for Yang. And he's already met many of those hopes. I never believed he had a high chance of winning the presidency. But he has already shifted the window of the conversation, and that's one of his stated goals. He said either he will win, or the others will start to sound a lot like him, and the second has been happening. Even Joe Biden has now tried to ramble about the "fourth industrial revolution".

Sanders isn't popular with the mainstream DNC, but he has developed a small wing in the Democrat Party and, in general, his platform is very popular. I think the big thing with Sanders will be trying to determine who to put as his running mate. There is room for balance there.

You mean for him to beat Trump, or is this an answer to the topic question? You may be right in either case. The Clintoncrats will definitely want one of theirs as his VP, and if he doesn't do that.... will they turn around and be silent or make moves to back Trump against Bernie?

Seeing that the Democrats 100% assuredly can't take a super majority in the Senate in 2020 and a majority isn't exactly a sure thing either, his enacted policies are not going to rock the capitalistic world.

The world, no. The Democratic Party, yes. And the Clintoncrats are all about using the Democratic Party for their own aims.

 

[PyramidHead]

Any Democratic opposition to the right that aligns with the mainstream political establishment preserves the conditions that led to Trump in the first place and is more harmful in the long run that 4 more years of Trump.

... you were doing so well up to there. And your following post was your best yet, as far as explaining the "Bernie phenomenon". But ...
The conditions that led to Trump no longer exist.

Galaxy brain take right there.

 

[marc]

The Sanders supporters want to destroy the Democratic Party in order to "save it," or in other words, turn it into the Bernie Sanders Party.

No, the Democratic Party is destroying itself, by becoming republican lite. They barely put up a fight much of the time, and only when it doesn’t contradict their donors. Such as with the ACA, they never even tried for a public option, even when they gave up on getting republicans on board.

Like Trump supporters, Bernie supporters have come to believe that their future lies in the ideas of one man. Rather than a "big tent" where there's room for everyone, it's a pup tent with room for just one leader.

As an actual Bernie supporter.. um... no... we support the policies he proposes, just like I also support Warren when she has similar policies.

They forget that Bernie only became a Democrat out of political expediency, is not an "outsider" (he's been in Washington since Bush 41 was President), and speaks in talking points and slogans like all the other career politicians.

Nobody ‘forgot’. We support the policies instead of blindly supporting the party. Unfortunately with the system the way it is an actual independent is unlikely to get anywhere, so he has to work within a party. No one forgot he has been around Washington forever. But it is only recently that people have gotten to know about him and realize how good his proposals are. And talking points? Politicians kinda have to talk in talking points, because the news tends to tune out when you try to get detailed. Pathetic reality unfortunately

 

[Politesse]

If Bernie wins the nomination, what will the corporate Democrats (Clintoncrats) do next? Do you think they will stick with the drum beat of Trump-worst or do you predict movements for Trump over Bernie by them? I am uncertain. They have suffered a fake populist, but would their interests survive the real thing?

I see two options for them:

1. Awkwardly pretend they were Bernie fans all along, and make ostentatious attempts to "correct" or "contextualize" his more socialist-ish statements.

2. Run either Bloomberg or Clinton herself as a third party candidate, sacrificing the nation to Trump for the sake of a Pyrrhic victory on behalf of the moneyed classes.​

I hope they pick number one.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

If Bernie wins the nomination, what will the corporate Democrats (Clintoncrats) do next? Do you think they will stick with the drum beat of Trump-worst or do you predict movements for Trump over Bernie by them? I am uncertain. They have suffered a fake populist, but would their interests survive the real thing?

That depends on the specific centrist or center-left Democrat. Some of them would stick with Sanders, others will stay out of the way. As for their interests, which ones? In any case, most of their interests, I think, will probably survive during the next Trump presidency. Now if Sanders wins, I think the probably Republican-controlled Senate will reduce the scope of what he can do to in the leftist direction, so yes, I thin centrists or center-left Democrats will be okay, for the most part.