What would happen if the health insurance economy collapsed

[Bronzeage]

When I was in Huangdao, China, as part of my employer procedure I went to the hospital when I had a slight cough. As a standard requirement, I supplied blood for 7 bottles, had a chest X-Ray, temperature, ECG, blood pressure tests.

This was standard each time. The cost for this was 10 RMB, not even, US$2.00. Those who were given medicine paid next to nothing.

There's no appointment necessary. Just turn up and push in each queue to get the specialist to see you. Despite the apparent chaos things were very well organised. All test results were available within a couple of hours.

This worked very well. When I was in Beijing I had a company medical in a brand new medical centre. There were 22 tests involved. This was more orderly, but still very fast. However due to the time factor (I only had a few hours). I omitted a few which was okay since there were often more tests for one symptom. This facility was spotless with state of the art equipment, purchased in most cases from the USA.

Not surprisingly the US has a dictatorial model of health care.

The doctor is at top and all things are to make their life easier.

The patient is at the bottom and they wait a long time to see the doctor.

I can see a Doctor tomorrow, if I have an illness. An appointment for a simple physical exam would be in the next 3 weeks.

I will agree that American doctors tend to live very well.

I do find it strange that in a nation which has the most expensive healthcare and the poorest health, doctors are held in such high esteem. I spent many years working on cars and was always held to a fairly high standard. Basically, I had one shot at it. Once I had taken someone's money for a specific problem, it was now my problem. If I was wrong, I kept working on it, at no extra cost. If a job took more time than my estimate, I has to stick to the original price. Even with those restrictions, I did well. Not as well as a doctor, of course.

Sometimes, I wonder. What if about 1/3 of the cars on the road smoked out the tailpipe so bad, you couldn't read the licence plate, and wheels came off in sharp turns, and disabled cars lined the shoulders of roads, despite having the highest cost auto maintenance in the world. Would people blame the cars, or would they say, we have the shittiest mechanics in the world.

 

[whichphilosophy]

goddamn communists

See, this is where the left loses healthcare debates. I am happy to support universal coverage at communist style costs. How about a Constitutional amendment that requires everyone be covered but at a cap of $200 per person per year. Then we can gave Cuban style healthcare for all, and leave everything else to the market.

Castro-Care seems to be working well. Castro-Care uses 10% or its GDP. The USA uses 17%

 

[RVonse]

Not surprisingly the US has a dictatorial model of health care.

The doctor is at top and all things are to make their life easier.

The patient is at the bottom and they wait a long time to see the doctor.

I can see a Doctor tomorrow, if I have an illness. An appointment for a simple physical exam would be in the next 3 weeks.

I will agree that American doctors tend to live very well.

I do find it strange that in a nation which has the most expensive healthcare and the poorest health, doctors are held in such high esteem. I spent many years working on cars and was always held to a fairly high standard. Basically, I had one shot at it. Once I had taken someone's money for a specific problem, it was now my problem. If I was wrong, I kept working on it, at no extra cost. If a job took more time than my estimate, I has to stick to the original price. Even with those restrictions, I did well. Not as well as a doctor, of course.

Sometimes, I wonder. What if about 1/3 of the cars on the road smoked out the tailpipe so bad, you couldn't read the licence plate, and wheels came off in sharp turns, and disabled cars lined the shoulders of roads, despite having the highest cost auto maintenance in the world. Would people blame the cars, or would they say, we have the shittiest mechanics in the world.

+1 Agree with this.

 

[jonatha]

It would take an entire set of circumstances happening concomitantly to cause an 'abrupt' health insurance collapse. Something like a pandemic or medical catastrophe that impacts enough lives to blow through all the reserves of the whole industry. And in such a scenario I would hope congress would have the wherewithal to pass emergency funding for the catastrophe itself.

You're new here, aren't you....

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) That's a subsidized rate. You wouldn't get that price if you had just walked in off the street.

2) The insurance only gets you the cheap local stuff. Need anything good and you're out of luck. My MIL died over there, slowly--many trips to the hospital and the like. They used the normal system for the simple stuff like oxygen but if it mattered they paid cash to get the good stuff.

3) Quality control. There's a reason the locals much prefer American goods--they trust that they're what they're supposed to be. Our bags are normally at least half full of ordinary US goods requested by her relatives.

4) Quality control. Many of those doctors leave a lot to be desired. My wife developed a retinal hole while we were over there. They lasered it shut. When we got home she went to a retinologist here--and found that while they had been correct in their diagnosis and treatment they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn--they didn't even realize they missed the target.

5) Plenty of utter quacks in those hospitals. The hospitals get money for referring to the quacks, the patient thinks they're actually seeing a doctor.

6) What you are describing would be totally unacceptable by US standards--radiation without any decent reason.

1) No dispute; but the point is, this is possible.

What part of "subsidized" did you not understand? You can reduce the price to zero with subsidies no matter what the original cost.

2) This was only for flu and colds. I have never had major treatment anywhere.

In other words, things which generally don't need treatment.

3) Make sure the US goods are not imported from China. Some hospitals and dentists (in 2009) had purchased modern equipment from the USA and Europe (Beijing this time).

While "Made in China" is considered a negative a good made in China but sold in the US will be considered superior to the "same" product bought in China. It's a matter of quality control, they can get away with an awful lot more with China-sold goods.

4) See point 2. Hope this was corrected.

Her eyes, yes. The incompetent eye doctor no doubt is still working there.

5) I can’t say. Apart from sometimes using Western medicine I used TCM. This treated the a serious DVT which was not handled in Germany. However I’m fortunate to not have any major physical illnesses apart from this. Now mental illness is a different issue 

I don't consider TCM to be quack. It's got a big problem with not sorting out placebo effects but they certainly do help many people. My impression of their mental health abilities is abysmal, though.

6) However, there are around 210,000 deaths each year in the USA medical errors in the USA (though lots more are helped).
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-us-hospitals/

Note, though, that most of those deaths are cases of the patient died today rather than next week, not utter failures. The quackery of China would result in the facility quickly being bankrupted by malpractice cases here.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

When I was in Huangdao, China, as part of my employer procedure I went to the hospital when I had a slight cough. As a standard requirement, I supplied blood for 7 bottles, had a chest X-Ray, temperature, ECG, blood pressure tests.

This was standard each time. The cost for this was 10 RMB, not even, US$2.00. Those who were given medicine paid next to nothing.

There's no appointment necessary. Just turn up and push in each queue to get the specialist to see you. Despite the apparent chaos things were very well organised. All test results were available within a couple of hours.

This worked very well. When I was in Beijing I had a company medical in a brand new medical centre. There were 22 tests involved. This was more orderly, but still very fast. However due to the time factor (I only had a few hours). I omitted a few which was okay since there were often more tests for one symptom. This facility was spotless with state of the art equipment, purchased in most cases from the USA.

Not surprisingly the US has a dictatorial model of health care.

The doctor is at top and all things are to make their life easier.

The patient is at the bottom and they wait a long time to see the doctor.

The only thing the doctor may have that you don't is knowledge. I've found myself able to know at least as much as the doctor about what may be wrong.

The doctor is more a portal than a magician. Any doctor that steers you away from learning about your condition should be avoided, as anyone with access to the internet can know as much as the doctor.

And the same is true for cars and mechanics.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Not surprisingly the US has a dictatorial model of health care.

The doctor is at top and all things are to make their life easier.

The patient is at the bottom and they wait a long time to see the doctor.

The only thing the doctor may have that you don't is knowledge. I've found myself able to know at least as much as the doctor about what may be wrong.

The doctor is more a portal than a magician. Any doctor that steers you away from learning about your condition should be avoided, as anyone with access to the internet can know as much as the doctor.

And the same is true for cars and mechanics.

I disagree. You can get as much information as a doctor or a mechanic, but that's very different from having as much knowledge. Knowledge involves being able to apply that information to the situation at hand in order to diagnose and fix the problem.

Sometimes, the problem is simple and it's easy to have as much knowledge as them, as in your car won't start, so you need to take out the battery and put a new one in to fix it or someone knifed you in the gut, so you need a mirror and some fishing twine to fix it. As the problems become more complex, however, the ability to turn information into knowledge becomes more and more the sort you need to be a trained expert in order to do.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The only thing the doctor may have that you don't is knowledge. I've found myself able to know at least as much as the doctor about what may be wrong.

The doctor is more a portal than a magician. Any doctor that steers you away from learning about your condition should be avoided, as anyone with access to the internet can know as much as the doctor.

And the same is true for cars and mechanics.

I disagree. You can get as much information as a doctor or a mechanic, but that's very different from having as much knowledge. Knowledge involves being able to apply that information to the situation at hand in order to diagnose and fix the problem.

Sometimes, the problem is simple and it's easy to have as much knowledge as them, as in your car won't start, so you need to take out the battery and put a new one in to fix it or someone knifed you in the gut, so you need a mirror and some fishing twine to fix it. As the problems become more complex, however, the ability to turn information into knowledge becomes more and more the sort you need to be a trained expert in order to do.

We'll have to simply disagree on that one.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The only thing the doctor may have that you don't is knowledge. I've found myself able to know at least as much as the doctor about what may be wrong.

The doctor is more a portal than a magician. Any doctor that steers you away from learning about your condition should be avoided, as anyone with access to the internet can know as much as the doctor.

And the same is true for cars and mechanics.

That knowledge of the body takes years to acquire and it's a realm where you sometimes don't get a do-over.

If you have a complex medical situation it certainly is in your interest to learn what you can but don't expect to know more than a competent doc about things. You're examining your tree, they see it in the context of the forest.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The only thing the doctor may have that you don't is knowledge. I've found myself able to know at least as much as the doctor about what may be wrong.

The doctor is more a portal than a magician. Any doctor that steers you away from learning about your condition should be avoided, as anyone with access to the internet can know as much as the doctor.

And the same is true for cars and mechanics.

That knowledge of the body takes years to acquire and it's a realm where you sometimes don't get a do-over.

If you have a complex medical situation it certainly is in your interest to learn what you can but don't expect to know more than a competent doc about things. You're examining your tree, they see it in the context of the forest.

Same response: We'll just have to disagree.

I've been down that road where the doctor's doctoring was less valuable than a dry turd. Without the internet I'd have been dead by now. If not dead my quality of life would have been in the shitter's shitter.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That knowledge of the body takes years to acquire and it's a realm where you sometimes don't get a do-over.

If you have a complex medical situation it certainly is in your interest to learn what you can but don't expect to know more than a competent doc about things. You're examining your tree, they see it in the context of the forest.

Same response: We'll just have to disagree.

I've been down that road where the doctor's doctoring was less valuable than a dry turd. Without the internet I'd have been dead by now. If not dead my quality of life would have been in the shitter's shitter.

I've had my own problems with doctors but I still find the breadth of knowledge they have useful.