What's the Harmful Effect of Christianity?

[Elixir]

Steve, a very large problem is that it seems impossible to say what "true Christianity" is.

Yet there are some 2 billions self-professed Christians who will eagerly give you - with absolute certitude - two billion different answers to that question.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Isn't that kind of the point, though? If Christians can just be good or evil the exact same as everyone else and cherry pick interpretations of parts of the theology to validate their positions either way while ignoring other parts which are at odds with what they think, doesn't that make it somewhat pointless? One would assume that having a population working off of a base set of rules set down by a divine entity would lead to their having some kind of significant difference between them as other populations who either just made the rules up themselves, were tricked into those rules by Satan, or whatever other competing methods of setting up morality they had.

This is something that I battle constantly – the idea that Christianity should be this monolithic group with no variation in beliefs. Let me ask you something – do Muslims all believe the same thing? Do Buddhists? Do atheists? Of course not. These groups are composed of individual humans, and each one has their particular interpretation of what the group should believe.

Yes, you would think that a group of believers would be different than the world at large but unfortunately given that we are fallible humans just like everyone else it is not always the case. In a community you will find those who ignore the law on a regular basis – and the same is true of faith communities. People are imperfect and fail, whether believers or not. This is nowhere more evident than in the history of the Jewish people, who were called the “chosen people” of God. They were to be examples to the nations of a covenant relationship with God. And we can see how that turned out.

The Bible was written by very fallible men who were trying to express their understanding of God and teach it to others. It is only natural that there are differing opinions and understanding of God and the expectations of how the faith community would act. At this point you probably realize that I do not subscribe to the “inerrant, infallible, God breathed” view of scripture.

I find it very amusing that those who hold to that view of the Bible don’t like to discuss Acts 4:32-35 which says “32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.” This would mean that they would actually have to show compassion and generosity to the less fortunate in the church – and you can bet most wealthy Christians would have a very hard time doing that!

I hold to only the fundamentals – the Gospel message of salvation and the greatest commandments of love. To me that is the “base set of rules” which determines who is Christian and who is not. All else is window dressing and is up for discussion. Doesn’t make me real popular with some of my fellow believers, but that is okay too.

Ruth

Yes, this was my point. A set of rules written by fallible men is essentially no different than any other set of rules written by fallible men. The point of the Bible is that it's supposed to be divinely inspired, so one would expect find a difference between the groups following it and other groups who aren't basing their actions and beliefs on divine inspiration. Even given fallible misinterpretations, if the foundation is superior, you'd think it would lead to better groups.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

That it is not Christianitynitself, it is the humans is an old side step.

The problem is that pesky Reformation that essentially made any person a reliogion of one. In the 1st-2nd centuries what were originaly Jewish heretics formed an independent identity and claimed the Torah or Old Testamnet as their own and distanced from Jews. Add to that the New Testamnet at a later date.

Christiand freely interpret the bible, often to bad ends. for other. From Leviticus a virulent hatred of gays., ignoring the rest of the moral rules.

I<O there is no such thing as Christianity. Words diectly attributable to Vjrist are few in the NT. There is niothing in the way of a consistent morality. That was created by the RCC over centuries.

The only requirement to be a Christian is beliving in Christ, and the ressurection follows. There are no specific requiremnts in the NT as what it requ8res to be and live Christuian. That is what leads to all Christian variations in trhe USA.

Contrast to Judaism. If you want to bvecome Jewish you have to go before a religious court, make your case, and show how you have been living in accordance with Jewish requirements.Tjereare manysmall Christian churches in the USA with their own interpretaions. Some use rented store fronts in Seattle. Some meet in homes.

I am not interested in reading much of the Old and New Testaments, but the whole thing about virulent anti-gay strictures is that if I remember right, it is not strongly emphasized in comparison to other rules as you did say. Not excusing it, being an atheist and all so I don't care what people a long time ago thought. But it has legacy staying power at this point.

Anyone have a good non biased source about this?

There are the OT verses against homosexuality. And they are reinforced in Paul's theology. Of course, then there is archaeology. We now know there was no Egyptian captivity. No exodus. No Moses and 40 years wandering. No Joshua conquering Canaan and destroying many cities. And thus no Moses on the way on the mounting receiving all those laws from God. Including laws against homosexuality.

Thus this nonsense about anti-gay religious sentiment is based on ancient fables and lies. Now the problem is getting that truth across to all those $#$$!! right winged Christians.


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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_New_Testament

 

[steve_bank]

The problem is the Abrahamic god myth ptopsgsyrf fpr thousands of years. As an historical observed matter, good Christians slaughtered each other of interpretations, suppresses Jews, and engaged in destructive wars with Islam. If a few key battles had gone the other way Europe may have gone Muslim.

Yes there are today in the USA Christians of good will, but there are bounds on the good will. It is the inherent divisiveness of religion.

Religion = conflict, an inescapable observation. The non establishment clause, freedom of religion clause, and the prohibition of religious tests for office were about protecting minority Christians from majority Christians. Colonial Christians were an intolerant lot. In the 19th century Catholics were not treated any better than Jews. Our Iconic Pilgrims were fleeing other Christians, and set up an intolerant culture in the New World. Christianity is inherently oppressive, which is the recon for the constitutional prohibitions.

 

[braces_for_impact]

The problem is the Abrahamic god myth ptopsgsyrf fpr thousands of years. As an historical observed matter, good Christians slaughtered each other of interpretations, suppresses Jews, and engaged in destructive wars with Islam. If a few key battles had gone the other way Europe may have gone Muslim.

Yes there are today in the USA Christians of good will, but there are bounds on the good will. It is the inherent divisiveness of religion.

Religion = conflict, an inescapable observation. The non establishment clause, freedom of religion clause, and the prohibition of religious tests for office were about protecting minority Christians from majority Christians. Colonial Christians were an intolerant lot. In the 19th century Catholics were not treated any better than Jews. Our Iconic Pilgrims were fleeing other Christians, and set up an intolerant culture in the New World. Christianity is inherently oppressive, which is the recon for the constitutional prohibitions.

All very true. Even among the groups themselves. Christianity itself may be quite different if certain "purges" hadn't been successful, or different sects had a bit higher death toll. Thousands of years of death and destruction and fear went into making the various sects what they are today, as well as the interpretations they use with regards to their holy books. Most Christians don't stop to think about that. They often say their religion is based on grace. It's based on killing those with rival interpretations. Also of note is that the most benign versions of Christianity were definitely not the winners here, either.

 

[steve_bank]

Sikh vs Hindu
Muslim vs Jew
Hindu vs Muslim
Buddhist vs Muslim(Myanmar)
Christian vs Muslim

 

[steve_bank]

One thing Leviticus shows is that gays have always been part of humanity. There is a section in the gospels where JC praises eunuchs. How about a Christian group of men who cut their balls off for gopd?

According to my Oxford Commentary, Paul's comments on sexuality while commonly translated as homosexuality probably meant libertine Roman/pagan sexuality. It says Jews thought sex drained the spirit.

 

[Rhea]

The vacuity of Pascal's Wager in another thread reminds me of the further harm that Christianity does to humanity:

• The immense harm from all of the facets of believing that there is an "end times" and worse, that its imminent.
• - The denial of climate change.
• - The carelessness of pollution because it "won't matter soon."
• - The harm to children isolated, starved, beaten, brainwashed because "we'll be called home soon"
• The harm to children from withdrawal from society to "keep pure"
• Oh, sweet merciful crap, those purity pledges! and the damage it does to the mental health of women who think their only worth is in their hymen.
• The intent to disrupt the middle east to try to drive a "prophecy" to completion.
• The freakin' holocaust - based on the idea that Jews "killed Jesus" and are bad/evil/wrong.
• The harm that celibacy wreaks on people who want to love their god but really shouldn't try to be celibate.