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When was the point of no return for the US

 
 
 
I think the point of no return for the US will be the elections this November. Either your country will say "This is who we are as a nation" or "This is not who we are as a nation".
 
steve_bank said:
Horatio Parker said:
Sounds like a load of crap to me, tho the point that there was greater social instability then is taken.

The entire lefty wing would've been ecstatic, and what could the Birchers and Hoover, realistically, have done?

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Elixir said:
Horatio Parker said:
Just curious - what catastrophe would've ensued? Maybe the imprisonment of Nixon would've been damaging, setting precedent for a form or type of political violence, but a conviction? Not so sure that would've been a bad thing.
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Might have given pause to Trump before he decided to run... that would have been worth enduring considerable "catastrophe".
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Exactly. Very bad for the bottom line.
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A load of crap? The left and right both have domestic terrorism. Oklahoma city. Political and law enforcement assassinations by the right.The thinks they will be happy if it all comes down, until they get cold, hungrey, and rule of law breaks down.

It does not take an historian to see cultural and political forces in motion. The fact that Trump has such large percentage of support shows the divide.

What makes you think next year will be as stable as today? If you can not articulate then you are blind. Trump's tax plans are setting up a potential major financial crash. Deficit is increasing and tax revenues are not.

Sleep tight. The end is in sight for me. If I were in my 20s today I would be worried.

What makes you believe your retirement planning will be worth anything when you need it? Divine intervention? Or you just assume it will be?
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Humph. So the conservatives that have been calling us lazy bums looking for a handout will be living in the cardboard boxes next door. It's a shame that those that constantly vote against their own economic interests in the name of ideology aren't the only ones affected by their poor decisions.
 
The Clinton thing was a new level of harassment. But by 2000 the conservative media machine was in full working order. Limbaugh was well established, but Fox wasn't yet the complete GOP shill it quickly became following the 2000 election and 9/11. That is, Fox did slant things things noticeably right, but it hadn't yet just went all out pro GOP/propaganda mill.

Following the 2000 election, which was quickly followed 9/11 however, Fox went full bore for the GOP, and has only gotten worse since. If Fox News doesn't exist, Dubbya never in a million fucking years gets re-elected. By then we knew that Iraq had hands down been the worst foreign policy fuck up in U.S. history. We knew the administration had lied to us; knew they didn't have plan; knew that all their predictions were 100% off. The Abu Ghraib scandal had happened, etc.

There was no fucking way Dubbya should've been reelected. If Fox didn't exist to grossly misinform its viewers, Dubbya would've been one and done.

So I guess it's a fetid amalgam of shit, punctuated by certain events. But the one consistent thing that really began with Limbaugh, and continues today is the right's perpetual and utterly shameless misinformation campaign. A phony war wasn't enough and Trump's horrifying lies that would otherwise be comical still isn't enough. And as has become obvious, there is nothing the conservative voter won't accept.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
I think the point of no return for the US will be the elections this November. Either your country will say "This is who we are as a nation" or "This is not who we are as a nation".
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The Democrats will do well in November, but it may not be enough to retake the Senate and/or the House. But I do not see Trump getting any better so we may have to wait until 2020, to see the GOP swept away in a national voter uprising. Trump's legal problems will just get worse. His failures and outrages will continue unabated, The GOP has become a lapdog of Trump and isn't any better without Trump any way.
 
The end of the Civil War. The brutal campaign of terror, the choice to punish rather than draw back in. The tensions never ended.
 
THe US has always been comprised of hustlers and gamblers. These types of people never learn from the mistakes of the past because their moral worldview is so shallow it does not allow a deep concience one can reflect with to exist. There was no actual point of no return.
 
There have been times in the US when it seemed that it could transcend it's broken and fractured past, but perhaps these have always been illusions. Since the founding of the country the compromise that gave the states a chance at independence from England also cemented conflicting moral values into constant confrontation.

Slavery is a wound of callus abuse woven into the US's founding documents and while this wound has been closed, the scars of the past still ache in the present. Modern politicians and factional leaders press these scars to get the emotional reactions they need from their base. Will some of these people inadvertently (or deliberately) press too hard and reopen these wounds of the past? Is the US again reaching a tipping point?

I don't know.
 
Politesse said:
The end of the Civil War. The brutal campaign of terror, the choice to punish rather than draw back in. The tensions never ended.
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Yes, the brutal terror, of almost no one in the Confederacy being hung for high treason.
 
There are no points of no return. Return is always possible; It just becomes rapidly more expensive, in both lives and treasure, and more time-consuming, as society moves further away from the state to which you are considering a return.

That's as true of a return to freedom and democracy, as it is of a return to dictatorship and autocracy.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
The point of no return was the 1910s and Wilson. Okay, maybe we could have turned back from the stuff Wilson did.
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Ill have to agree. The beginning of the Fed, the IRS. The false flag Lusitania to get into WW1 would be the beginnings of many more similar style events, Pearl Harbor, Golf Tonkin, World Trade Center, etc. All lies and propaganda for control of the population.

But the real turning point for the US is actually taking place right now in real time. We see a current president who can not seem to prevent migration from taking place. Dispite running and winning on the platform to do so. Simply because his own government (the democrats) are preventing him. Migration is a huge difference from legal immigration. And unlawful migration has never happened before with the US on such a scale. A similar migration took place during the last stages of the fall of Rome when it became invaded by the north... but it has never taken place in any other country that has ever survived. At least that I am aware of. And for better or worse the US will never look the same again. I do not think there is any turning back from population relacement of a nation.
 
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When corporations were granted the rights of persons the horror of the modern world was born.

They are running out of control, out of sight, and are destroying the planet.

We invade nations that have not attacked us to satiate their greed.

We wage constant war to satiate their greed.

We wage war on drug users and put them in jail to satiate their greed.

We are destroying the environment faster and faster, burning oil as fast as possible, to satiate their greed.

The corporate system is the modern evil. Like the King and the Church in the past.

And to not see it just makes one ordinary.
 
RVonse said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
The point of no return was the 1910s and Wilson. Okay, maybe we could have turned back from the stuff Wilson did.
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Ill have to agree. The beginning of the Fed, the IRS. The false flag Lusitania to get into WW1 would be the beginnings of many more similar style events, Pearl Harbor, Golf Tonkin, World Trade Center, etc. All lies and propaganda for control of the population.
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So you are saying the tin foil industry was the turning point.

But the real turning point for the US is actually taking place right now in real time. We see a current president who can not seem to prevent migration from taking place. Dispite running and winning on the platform to do so. Simply because his own government (the democrats) are preventing him.
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"Migration" is at low levels.

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Politesse said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Politesse said:
The end of the Civil War. The brutal campaign of terror, the choice to punish rather than draw back in. The tensions never ended.
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Yes, the brutal terror, of almost no one in the Confederacy being hung for high treason.
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You think that would have helped?
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Wow. Swing and a miss. He is 0-4 today, couldn't hit a beach ball if he tried.
 
Moral of thread: Americans agree we are all doomed, but perceptions of and solutions to said doom are too widely divided and contradictory to provide any hope of collective resolution.
 
Politesse said:
Moral of thread: Americans agree we are all doomed, but perceptions of and solutions to said doom are too widely divided and contradictory to provide any hope of collective resolution.
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The President of the United States had a press conference and very much acted like a patsy for the Russian leader. These are not good times.
 
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