When you break it down: is atheism unappealing?

[TLK Valentine]

But theists have been murdering other theists for millennia. In some cases, even those who believe in the same god.

Many cases, really... religions are sometimes harder on the heretics in their own ranks than the infidels...

 

[DrZoidberg]

As I hav said before I identify as atheist because it convienient to do so in situations iike the forum. But I think atheism and theism can be flip sides of the same coin.

If you want to be free from religion neither a theist not atheist be. Being atheist inevitably draws you into the theist narrative. Which is what theists need. They need a foil.

Once I started reading up on paganism and pagan philosophy I've stopped using the term atheism. It's an uninteresting label IMHO. I prefer Leo Habermas definition of God. "god is the name we give to our hopes and dreams". So if you have hopes and dreams, then you believe in a god. Seing religion in this way completely takes all the toys away from Christians. They want to force us into having to make strong statements on a topic that is highly vague and nebulous. It's just tribal and dumb. It's not like they know for sure either. I'm not going to give Christians that satisfaction. When Christians say they believe in God I translate it in my head to "I have hopes and dreams". If a Christian asks me if I believe in God I can honestly answer yes. If an atheist asks me if I'm an atheist, I can also honestly answer yes, because they mean something different.

I also like the term post-atheist.

I don't want to be free from religion. We're creatures of habit and ritual. I think religions are useful as well as important to us. I just have more of a smorgasbord approach to religion. I pick what I like in the same way I pick what decorations to hang in my Christmas tree. Sometimes something is better than nothing. But what something it is is of lesser importance.

This attitude to religion is incredibly liberating as well as inclusive. When I was in Istanbul last time I was hanging out outside a mosque around Friday prayers. A man thought I was Muslim and a bit lost, so he guided me into the mosque and showed me what to do. I just went with it. It was an awesome experience. Very powerful. We don't need to pick a team. These rituals work for anyone. I have since had a Christian girlfriend and have gone with her to church. And liked it.

Your emotional brain is an idiot. And religious ritual speaks to our emotional brains. It's not complicated and it's unncessary to make it more complicated than it needs to be. This is really simple stuff.

I love religion.

It took me a surprisingly long time to discover and understand the word pantheist, which I think speaks well to religion from the perspective of anthropology. And really, that's usually what I'm interested in when I raise religious topics here, scientific and objective discussion about religion. Not arguments for or against why someone should or shouldn't believe.

But more and more it looks like we can't discuss anthropology without it becoming political, that's essentially what I've learned from raising religious topics at IIDB. This is why I've started backing out of religious discussion here, I'm just not that interested in anti-theist debate. I get why it exists, I get the arguments, I'm just not that interested in taking part.

Only Christianity and Islam care what you believe in. For all other religions religion is something you do. An activity. Not something you believe in. Christian thought-policing has poisoned everything for so long.

If you go to India you can just join in one of their worships. They won't get offended.

 

[Jarhyn]

As I hav said before I identify as atheist because it convienient to do so in situations iike the forum. But I think atheism and theism can be flip sides of the same coin.

If you want to be free from religion neither a theist not atheist be. Being atheist inevitably draws you into the theist narrative. Which is what theists need. They need a foil.

Once I started reading up on paganism and pagan philosophy I've stopped using the term atheism. It's an uninteresting label IMHO. I prefer Leo Habermas definition of God. "god is the name we give to our hopes and dreams". So if you have hopes and dreams, then you believe in a god. Seing religion in this way completely takes all the toys away from Christians. They want to force us into having to make strong statements on a topic that is highly vague and nebulous. It's just tribal and dumb. It's not like they know for sure either. I'm not going to give Christians that satisfaction. When Christians say they believe in God I translate it in my head to "I have hopes and dreams". If a Christian asks me if I believe in God I can honestly answer yes. If an atheist asks me if I'm an atheist, I can also honestly answer yes, because they mean something different.

I also like the term post-atheist.

I don't want to be free from religion. We're creatures of habit and ritual. I think religions are useful as well as important to us. I just have more of a smorgasbord approach to religion. I pick what I like in the same way I pick what decorations to hang in my Christmas tree. Sometimes something is better than nothing. But what something it is is of lesser importance.

This attitude to religion is incredibly liberating as well as inclusive. When I was in Istanbul last time I was hanging out outside a mosque around Friday prayers. A man thought I was Muslim and a bit lost, so he guided me into the mosque and showed me what to do. I just went with it. It was an awesome experience. Very powerful. We don't need to pick a team. These rituals work for anyone. I have since had a Christian girlfriend and have gone with her to church. And liked it.

Your emotional brain is an idiot. And religious ritual speaks to our emotional brains. It's not complicated and it's unncessary to make it more complicated than it needs to be. This is really simple stuff.

I love religion.

It took me a surprisingly long time to discover and understand the word pantheist, which I think speaks well to religion from the perspective of anthropology. And really, that's usually what I'm interested in when I raise religious topics here, scientific and objective discussion about religion. Not arguments for or against why someone should or shouldn't believe.

But more and more it looks like we can't discuss anthropology without it becoming political, that's essentially what I've learned from raising religious topics at IIDB. This is why I've started backing out of religious discussion here, I'm just not that interested in anti-theist debate. I get why it exists, I get the arguments, I'm just not that interested in taking part.

Only Christianity and Islam care what you believe in. For all other religions religion is something you do. An activity. Not something you believe in. Christian thought-policing has poisoned everything for so long.

If you go to India you can just join in one of their worships. They won't get offended.

And Judaism..

It's pretty similar for all the abrahamic religions, except for a number of gnostic sects, which most of the abrahamic sects view as heretical.

 

[steve_bank]

As I hav said before I identify as atheist because it convienient to do so in situations iike the forum. But I think atheism and theism can be flip sides of the same coin.

If you want to be free from religion neither a theist not atheist be. Being atheist inevitably draws you into the theist narrative. Which is what theists need. They need a foil.

Once I started reading up on paganism and pagan philosophy I've stopped using the term atheism. It's an uninteresting label IMHO. I prefer Leo Habermas definition of God. "god is the name we give to our hopes and dreams". So if you have hopes and dreams, then you believe in a god. Seing religion in this way completely takes all the toys away from Christians. They want to force us into having to make strong statements on a topic that is highly vague and nebulous. It's just tribal and dumb. It's not like they know for sure either. I'm not going to give Christians that satisfaction. When Christians say they believe in God I translate it in my head to "I have hopes and dreams". If a Christian asks me if I believe in God I can honestly answer yes. If an atheist asks me if I'm an atheist, I can also honestly answer yes, because they mean something different.

I also like the term post-atheist.

I don't want to be free from religion. We're creatures of habit and ritual. I think religions are useful as well as important to us. I just have more of a smorgasbord approach to religion. I pick what I like in the same way I pick what decorations to hang in my Christmas tree. Sometimes something is better than nothing. But what something it is is of lesser importance.

This attitude to religion is incredibly liberating as well as inclusive. When I was in Istanbul last time I was hanging out outside a mosque around Friday prayers. A man thought I was Muslim and a bit lost, so he guided me into the mosque and showed me what to do. I just went with it. It was an awesome experience. Very powerful. We don't need to pick a team. These rituals work for anyone. I have since had a Christian girlfriend and have gone with her to church. And liked it.

Your emotional brain is an idiot. And religious ritual speaks to our emotional brains. It's not complicated and it's unncessary to make it more complicated than it needs to be. This is really simple stuff.

I love religion.

It took me a surprisingly long time to discover and understand the word pantheist, which I think speaks well to religion from the perspective of anthropology. And really, that's usually what I'm interested in when I raise religious topics here, scientific and objective discussion about religion. Not arguments for or against why someone should or shouldn't believe.

But more and more it looks like we can't discuss anthropology without it becoming political, that's essentially what I've learned from raising religious topics at IIDB. This is why I've started backing out of religious discussion here, I'm just not that interested in anti-theist debate. I get why it exists, I get the arguments, I'm just not that interested in taking part.

Only Christianity and Islam care what you believe in. For all other religions religion is something you do. An activity. Not something you believe in. Christian thought-policing has poisoned everything for so long.

If you go to India you can just join in one of their worships. They won't get offended.

I do not agree. Hindus and Muslims have been at each other for centuries continuing today.

Conservative Hindus can be just as socially oppressive as Muslims and Christians.

 

[DrZoidberg]

As I hav said before I identify as atheist because it convienient to do so in situations iike the forum. But I think atheism and theism can be flip sides of the same coin.

If you want to be free from religion neither a theist not atheist be. Being atheist inevitably draws you into the theist narrative. Which is what theists need. They need a foil.

Once I started reading up on paganism and pagan philosophy I've stopped using the term atheism. It's an uninteresting label IMHO. I prefer Leo Habermas definition of God. "god is the name we give to our hopes and dreams". So if you have hopes and dreams, then you believe in a god. Seing religion in this way completely takes all the toys away from Christians. They want to force us into having to make strong statements on a topic that is highly vague and nebulous. It's just tribal and dumb. It's not like they know for sure either. I'm not going to give Christians that satisfaction. When Christians say they believe in God I translate it in my head to "I have hopes and dreams". If a Christian asks me if I believe in God I can honestly answer yes. If an atheist asks me if I'm an atheist, I can also honestly answer yes, because they mean something different.

I also like the term post-atheist.

I don't want to be free from religion. We're creatures of habit and ritual. I think religions are useful as well as important to us. I just have more of a smorgasbord approach to religion. I pick what I like in the same way I pick what decorations to hang in my Christmas tree. Sometimes something is better than nothing. But what something it is is of lesser importance.

This attitude to religion is incredibly liberating as well as inclusive. When I was in Istanbul last time I was hanging out outside a mosque around Friday prayers. A man thought I was Muslim and a bit lost, so he guided me into the mosque and showed me what to do. I just went with it. It was an awesome experience. Very powerful. We don't need to pick a team. These rituals work for anyone. I have since had a Christian girlfriend and have gone with her to church. And liked it.

Your emotional brain is an idiot. And religious ritual speaks to our emotional brains. It's not complicated and it's unncessary to make it more complicated than it needs to be. This is really simple stuff.

I love religion.

It took me a surprisingly long time to discover and understand the word pantheist, which I think speaks well to religion from the perspective of anthropology. And really, that's usually what I'm interested in when I raise religious topics here, scientific and objective discussion about religion. Not arguments for or against why someone should or shouldn't believe.

But more and more it looks like we can't discuss anthropology without it becoming political, that's essentially what I've learned from raising religious topics at IIDB. This is why I've started backing out of religious discussion here, I'm just not that interested in anti-theist debate. I get why it exists, I get the arguments, I'm just not that interested in taking part.

Only Christianity and Islam care what you believe in. For all other religions religion is something you do. An activity. Not something you believe in. Christian thought-policing has poisoned everything for so long.

If you go to India you can just join in one of their worships. They won't get offended.

I do not agree. Hindus and Muslims have been at each other for centuries continuing today.

Conservative Hindus can be just as socially oppressive as Muslims and Christians.

You're not disproving my point.

 

[DrZoidberg]

As I hav said before I identify as atheist because it convienient to do so in situations iike the forum. But I think atheism and theism can be flip sides of the same coin.

If you want to be free from religion neither a theist not atheist be. Being atheist inevitably draws you into the theist narrative. Which is what theists need. They need a foil.

Once I started reading up on paganism and pagan philosophy I've stopped using the term atheism. It's an uninteresting label IMHO. I prefer Leo Habermas definition of God. "god is the name we give to our hopes and dreams". So if you have hopes and dreams, then you believe in a god. Seing religion in this way completely takes all the toys away from Christians. They want to force us into having to make strong statements on a topic that is highly vague and nebulous. It's just tribal and dumb. It's not like they know for sure either. I'm not going to give Christians that satisfaction. When Christians say they believe in God I translate it in my head to "I have hopes and dreams". If a Christian asks me if I believe in God I can honestly answer yes. If an atheist asks me if I'm an atheist, I can also honestly answer yes, because they mean something different.

I also like the term post-atheist.

I don't want to be free from religion. We're creatures of habit and ritual. I think religions are useful as well as important to us. I just have more of a smorgasbord approach to religion. I pick what I like in the same way I pick what decorations to hang in my Christmas tree. Sometimes something is better than nothing. But what something it is is of lesser importance.

This attitude to religion is incredibly liberating as well as inclusive. When I was in Istanbul last time I was hanging out outside a mosque around Friday prayers. A man thought I was Muslim and a bit lost, so he guided me into the mosque and showed me what to do. I just went with it. It was an awesome experience. Very powerful. We don't need to pick a team. These rituals work for anyone. I have since had a Christian girlfriend and have gone with her to church. And liked it.

Your emotional brain is an idiot. And religious ritual speaks to our emotional brains. It's not complicated and it's unncessary to make it more complicated than it needs to be. This is really simple stuff.

I love religion.

It took me a surprisingly long time to discover and understand the word pantheist, which I think speaks well to religion from the perspective of anthropology. And really, that's usually what I'm interested in when I raise religious topics here, scientific and objective discussion about religion. Not arguments for or against why someone should or shouldn't believe.

But more and more it looks like we can't discuss anthropology without it becoming political, that's essentially what I've learned from raising religious topics at IIDB. This is why I've started backing out of religious discussion here, I'm just not that interested in anti-theist debate. I get why it exists, I get the arguments, I'm just not that interested in taking part.

Only Christianity and Islam care what you believe in. For all other religions religion is something you do. An activity. Not something you believe in. Christian thought-policing has poisoned everything for so long.

If you go to India you can just join in one of their worships. They won't get offended.

And Judaism..

It's pretty similar for all the abrahamic religions, except for a number of gnostic sects, which most of the abrahamic sects view as heretical.

Nope. My ex wife was Israeli ashkenhazi Jew. Christianity and Islam is it's own thing. Judaism is still pagan to a large extent. Jews care about ritual. They don't care so much what you believe. That's a Christian thing.

Israel has had a lot of influence from American Jews the last decades who have had a lot of influence from Evangelical Christians. But the core of Judaism doesn't care one iota what you believe. Just do your rituals and God is happy. Judaism has no problem with Jews being atheist. Just as long as they do the rituals. Good luck convincing an Evangelical Christian parent to have that attitude towards their kids

 

[steve_bank]

As I hav said before I identify as atheist because it convienient to do so in situations iike the forum. But I think atheism and theism can be flip sides of the same coin.

If you want to be free from religion neither a theist not atheist be. Being atheist inevitably draws you into the theist narrative. Which is what theists need. They need a foil.

Once I started reading up on paganism and pagan philosophy I've stopped using the term atheism. It's an uninteresting label IMHO. I prefer Leo Habermas definition of God. "god is the name we give to our hopes and dreams". So if you have hopes and dreams, then you believe in a god. Seing religion in this way completely takes all the toys away from Christians. They want to force us into having to make strong statements on a topic that is highly vague and nebulous. It's just tribal and dumb. It's not like they know for sure either. I'm not going to give Christians that satisfaction. When Christians say they believe in God I translate it in my head to "I have hopes and dreams". If a Christian asks me if I believe in God I can honestly answer yes. If an atheist asks me if I'm an atheist, I can also honestly answer yes, because they mean something different.

I also like the term post-atheist.

I don't want to be free from religion. We're creatures of habit and ritual. I think religions are useful as well as important to us. I just have more of a smorgasbord approach to religion. I pick what I like in the same way I pick what decorations to hang in my Christmas tree. Sometimes something is better than nothing. But what something it is is of lesser importance.

This attitude to religion is incredibly liberating as well as inclusive. When I was in Istanbul last time I was hanging out outside a mosque around Friday prayers. A man thought I was Muslim and a bit lost, so he guided me into the mosque and showed me what to do. I just went with it. It was an awesome experience. Very powerful. We don't need to pick a team. These rituals work for anyone. I have since had a Christian girlfriend and have gone with her to church. And liked it.

Your emotional brain is an idiot. And religious ritual speaks to our emotional brains. It's not complicated and it's unncessary to make it more complicated than it needs to be. This is really simple stuff.

I love religion.

It took me a surprisingly long time to discover and understand the word pantheist, which I think speaks well to religion from the perspective of anthropology. And really, that's usually what I'm interested in when I raise religious topics here, scientific and objective discussion about religion. Not arguments for or against why someone should or shouldn't believe.

But more and more it looks like we can't discuss anthropology without it becoming political, that's essentially what I've learned from raising religious topics at IIDB. This is why I've started backing out of religious discussion here, I'm just not that interested in anti-theist debate. I get why it exists, I get the arguments, I'm just not that interested in taking part.

Only Christianity and Islam care what you believe in. For all other religions religion is something you do. An activity. Not something you believe in. Christian thought-policing has poisoned everything for so long.

If you go to India you can just join in one of their worships. They won't get offended.

I do not agree. Hindus and Muslims have been at each other for centuries continuing today.

Conservative Hindus can be just as socially oppressive as Muslims and Christians.

You're not disproving my point.

Perish the thought Dr. Z, I am disagreeing with you.

I believe in general all religions have the same distribution from liberal and tolerant to extreme conservative intolerant. That even includes Buddhist as seen in Buddhist dominated Myanmar. Ethnic cleansing. Buddhists vs Muslim minority.

Christians, Jews, and Muslims have the same distributions. The literal biblical right in Israel is gaining power. They will increase the West Bank and Jerusalem ethnic cleansing.

Islam in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan is poisonous. In Saudi Arabia and Iran changing from the dominant Muslim sect to anything else, apostasy, can bring harsh punishment. Up through the 90s it could get yio the death penalty in Saudi Arabia. Don't knpw about today.

The theist response istypically they are not really practicing the true religion, but it is what it is.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Religion is just a tribal identifier. Atheism just says "I don't have a tribal identifier." The problem is that such a position threatens someone who thinks their tribe is superior to all other tribes and doesn't understand why anyone wouldn't want to belong to their tribe. People should think of their religions as family hobbies. It would spare the world a lot of grief.

 

[steve_bank]

When I lived in NH in the 80s I eent to the old Bostaon Graden to see Byrd and the Celtcs.

Cetics hans were most definitely tribal centered on Larry Byrd.

In Seattle Seahawks fans are tribal in a big way.

Rock band fans,

 

[TomC]

Religion is just a tribal identifier. Atheism just says "I don't have a tribal identifier." The problem is that such a position threatens someone who thinks their tribe is superior to all other tribes and doesn't understand why anyone wouldn't want to belong to their tribe. People should think of their religions as family hobbies. It would spare the world a lot of grief.

You might want to Google P Z Meyers and/or Brights before you post this sort of thing on the internet.

Makes you look uninformed.

Or worse

Tom

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Religion is just a tribal identifier. Atheism just says "I don't have a tribal identifier." The problem is that such a position threatens someone who thinks their tribe is superior to all other tribes and doesn't understand why anyone wouldn't want to belong to their tribe. People should think of their religions as family hobbies. It would spare the world a lot of grief.

You might want to Google P Z Meyers and/or Brights before you post this sort of thing on the internet.

Makes you look uninformed.

Or worse

Tom

Misinformed? Uninformed? You may have missed the point. Or worse.

 

[TomC]

Religion is just a tribal identifier. Atheism just says "I don't have a tribal identifier." The problem is that such a position threatens someone who thinks their tribe is superior to all other tribes and doesn't understand why anyone wouldn't want to belong to their tribe. People should think of their religions as family hobbies. It would spare the world a lot of grief.

You might want to Google P Z Meyers and/or Brights before you post this sort of thing on the internet.

Makes you look uninformed.

Or worse

Tom

Misinformed? Uninformed? You may have missed the point. Or worse.

Tell me again.
What is the point to the term "Brights"?
Tom

 

[Shadowy Man]

Religion is just a tribal identifier. Atheism just says "I don't have a tribal identifier." The problem is that such a position threatens someone who thinks their tribe is superior to all other tribes and doesn't understand why anyone wouldn't want to belong to their tribe. People should think of their religions as family hobbies. It would spare the world a lot of grief.

You might want to Google P Z Meyers and/or Brights before you post this sort of thing on the internet.

Makes you look uninformed.

Or worse

Tom

One can be an atheist without even knowing what PZ Meyers or Brights are.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

One can be an atheist without even knowing what PZ Meyers or Brights are.

Apparently not, at least according to some folks. And of course that's the point. I guess that's because the majority of us are indoctrinated to see the world through a religious lens. I'd guess most folks don't get that. Hopes and dreams are pretty automatic but not everyone turns them into magic space creatures with magic powers.

 

[Shadowy Man]

One can be an atheist without even knowing what PZ Meyers or Brights are.

Apparently not, at least according to some folks. And of course that's the point. I guess that's because the majority of us are indoctrinated to see the world through a religious lens. I'd guess most folks don't get that. Hopes and dreams are pretty automatic but not everyone turns them into magic space creatures with magic powers.

Some folks don’t speak for all folks. I have no idea what your two references are and I am an atheist living my life just fine for not knowing.

 

[steve_bank]

Brights is te high beam on your car.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

One can be an atheist without even knowing what PZ Meyers or Brights are.

Apparently not, at least according to some folks. And of course that's the point. I guess that's because the majority of us are indoctrinated to see the world through a religious lens. I'd guess most folks don't get that. Hopes and dreams are pretty automatic but not everyone turns them into magic space creatures with magic powers.

Some folks don’t speak for all folks. I have no idea what your two references are and I am an atheist living my life just fine for not knowing.

And of course that's the point.

 

[steve_bank]

Religion is just a tribal identifier. Atheism just says "I don't have a tribal identifier." The problem is that such a position threatens someone who thinks their tribe is superior to all other tribes and doesn't understand why anyone wouldn't want to belong to their tribe. People should think of their religions as family hobbies. It would spare the world a lot of grief.

You might want to Google P Z Meyers and/or Brights before you post this sort of thing on the internet.

Makes you look uninformed.

Or worse

Tom

One can be an atheist without even knowing what PZ Meyers or Brights are.

I have no idea who atheist rferences are posted on the forum. I have as much use for atheist ideology as I do religion.

The atjheist 'tribe'.

 

[abaddon]

Religion is just a tribal identifier.

Religion is people joining religious groups just so they can identify as religious? That's all that religion is? Really?

Atheism just says "I don't have a tribal identifier."

To be an atheist means you cannot join a group of like-minded persons? Wow that's a strict rule.

But maybe you were trying to say atheists don't do group-think and all religious people do. If so that's BS too.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Religion is just a tribal identifier.

Religion is people joining religious groups just so they can identify as religious? That's all that religion is? Really?

Atheism just says "I don't have a tribal identifier."

To be an atheist means you cannot join a group of like-minded persons? Wow that's a strict rule.

But maybe you were trying to say atheists don't do group-think and all religious people do. If so that's BS too.

No. I'm saying you can be atheist and have no idea what a "Bright" is or who PZ Meyers is. And I don't think that constitutes being uninformed or misinformed. Some feel otherwise. Maybe I should have said "religious" tribal identifier.