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White Americans support the right to protest injustice — unless the protesters are black

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8834025/protests-race

Chart-1-PRRI-Americans-Protest-Government-640x442.jpg

Did you guys miss me while I was on vacation?

No, I didn't miss the blatant misrepresentation of facts. Your thread title has nothing to do with the presented data. People were not asked anything about anyone's "right to protest". Support for such rights could easily be at 100% for every group, and this graph would not suggest otherwise.

The actual question they were asked was whether they felt protests "always make our country better". That has zero relation to supporting people's right to such protests.

Also, the "Americans" implies that people of any and all groups and races may be involved in the protest, whereas "Black Americans" clearly implies that no non-blacks are at all joining in on the protests, because if they were it would be stupid and misleading to single out Black Americans.
IOW, the experimental variable they tried to manipulate is confounded. They are trying to manipulate race but they are also manipulating inclusivity and general consensus about the injustice. The "Americans" wording includes protests where people across all races, groups, income level, etc. are involved and agree on the injustice. The "Black Americans" wording means that only one particular group sees an injustice worth protesting. No matter who that selective group is, that can make it less likely that the claimed injustice is as obvious and as extreme compared to when people from more varied backgrounds are protesting. This is especially relevant given the question of "always make the country better". "Always" is a rather high bar to set for protests, and a narrow select group is more likely to have some protests that are unjustified than widespread coalition protests.
The proper comparison would have been to ask about "White Americans" versus "Black Americans" versus just "Americans".
I bet dollars to donuts that among white respondents, they answer to the "White Americans" would be at or below their support for "Black Americans". It would vary alot on political ideology. Liberals would say that Black Americans' protests makes the country better then do White Americans' protests, while conservatives would say the reverse.

Finally, what does it say that black responders view protests more positively when they are exclusively by blacks than when they are by a broader and more inclusive group of "Americans" which can include but is not limited to their own ethnic group? Whites view the more inclusive "Americans" more positively, whereas black view the more exclusive protests more positively, which is rather odd unless it is specifically about favoring the exclusive group only because it is their own group. IOW, their response conveys self-centered racial thinking, whereas the white responders might be doing that but could as easily just be sensibly favoring protests that are more inclusive and supported by a wider ranger of interests.
 
What if blacks and whites are protesting over the same thing? Are the black protesters making things worse while the white protesters are making things better?

It depends on where you are located and who is watching the protest. The Black Lives Matter protests might be a case in point. Our mainstream press does a great job covering up rather than covering protests marches in general, no matter what the public thinks...they treat all protest as just disgruntled unhappy people letting off steam...no matter the cause.
 
You seem to be branding yourself here.
I am not branding anything. I am not a rancher.
I'm thinking of things like the local case where the car thief pointed realistic replica gun at the cop and got shot for it.
I'm supposed to know your local cases now?
There's no dispute about the facts of the case yet plenty of griping trying to blame the cop. (For example, he should have waited for backup. Never mind that that's exactly what he was doing when the driver pulled the stunt.)
Well evidently there is dispute over the facts, because people are disputing them. :rolleyesa:
For example, no matter how justified the shoot there will be some blacks proclaiming the cops did wrong. That sort of thing doesn't make our country better.
For example no matter how blatantly unjusitifed the shoot there will be some whites proclaiming the cops did no wrong. That sort of thing doesn't make our country better.

I have yet to see a protest like you describe.
Oh you have seen them, you just won't see them that way.
There are some law & order types on the web that might say that, they don't take to the streets.
If cops (you know the trained professionals who are supposed to protect and serve) stop killing black folk for such high crimes and misdemeanors as holding toy guns and selling loosies, that will definitely cut down on the number of people taking to the streets.

You misunderstand. Nobody is disputing how the incident played out:

1) Cop spots a vehicle on the hot sheet.

2) Cop calls for backup and follows without his light & siren.

3) Kid (16) realizes he's being followed and takes off.

4) Cop pursues.

5) Kid doesn't realize the 4-lane street he's on suddenly dead-ends (a bridge would be needed to continue, they were working on it.)

6) The cop pulls up, blocks the road and yells for everyone to stay put. (He's still waiting for the backup.)

7) The driver gets out and points the replica at the cop.

8) The cop shoots.

The squawks all are a matter of saying the cop should have done things differently, no other reasonable course of action has been proposed, though. The cop was white, the kid black, this is treated as proof the shoot was racism, never mind the facts. Rather, they present things like the kid was a good kid, never been arrested, was unarmed.

How does society benefit from protests based on some fantasy rather than reality?
 
I am not branding anything. I am not a rancher.
I'm thinking of things like the local case where the car thief pointed realistic replica gun at the cop and got shot for it.
I'm supposed to know your local cases now?
There's no dispute about the facts of the case yet plenty of griping trying to blame the cop. (For example, he should have waited for backup. Never mind that that's exactly what he was doing when the driver pulled the stunt.)
Well evidently there is dispute over the facts, because people are disputing them. :rolleyesa:
For example, no matter how justified the shoot there will be some blacks proclaiming the cops did wrong. That sort of thing doesn't make our country better.
For example no matter how blatantly unjusitifed the shoot there will be some whites proclaiming the cops did no wrong. That sort of thing doesn't make our country better.

I have yet to see a protest like you describe.
Oh you have seen them, you just won't see them that way.
There are some law & order types on the web that might say that, they don't take to the streets.
If cops (you know the trained professionals who are supposed to protect and serve) stop killing black folk for such high crimes and misdemeanors as holding toy guns and selling loosies, that will definitely cut down on the number of people taking to the streets.

You misunderstand. Nobody is disputing how the incident played out:

1) Cop spots a vehicle on the hot sheet.

2) Cop calls for backup and follows without his light & siren.

3) Kid (16) realizes he's being followed and takes off.

4) Cop pursues.

5) Kid doesn't realize the 4-lane street he's on suddenly dead-ends (a bridge would be needed to continue, they were working on it.)

6) The cop pulls up, blocks the road and yells for everyone to stay put. (He's still waiting for the backup.)

7) The driver gets out and points the replica at the cop.

8) The cop shoots.

The squawks all are a matter of saying the cop should have done things differently, no other reasonable course of action has been proposed, though. The cop was white, the kid black, this is treated as proof the shoot was racism, never mind the facts. Rather, they present things like the kid was a good kid, never been arrested, was unarmed.

How does society benefit from protests based on some fantasy rather than reality?

Link?
 
Your thread title has nothing to do with the presented data.

Take that issue up with Ezra Klein since that was Vox's headline for their story.


You had no obligation to mindlessly parrot lies and use them as your thread title. Had the lie not been something you wanted to believe and promote, I am betting you wouldn't have just repeated it.

Your are solely responsible for the misinformation you spread.

This would have been a proper thread title: "Once again, Vox and Klein grossly misrepresent science and the facts to advance a political agenda."
 
eta: I bet you're a blast at parties.

Actually, yeah. I chose friends that respect intellectual integrity, so they find it very entertaining when I shred the dishonest nonsense of vapid ideologues.

BTW, no one is buying your back-peddling b.s. where you pretend that you weren't being serious or that did not fully believe and support the claims in your own OP.
 
I am not branding anything. I am not a rancher.
I'm thinking of things like the local case where the car thief pointed realistic replica gun at the cop and got shot for it.
I'm supposed to know your local cases now?
There's no dispute about the facts of the case yet plenty of griping trying to blame the cop. (For example, he should have waited for backup. Never mind that that's exactly what he was doing when the driver pulled the stunt.)
Well evidently there is dispute over the facts, because people are disputing them. :rolleyesa:
For example, no matter how justified the shoot there will be some blacks proclaiming the cops did wrong. That sort of thing doesn't make our country better.
For example no matter how blatantly unjusitifed the shoot there will be some whites proclaiming the cops did no wrong. That sort of thing doesn't make our country better.

I have yet to see a protest like you describe.
Oh you have seen them, you just won't see them that way.
There are some law & order types on the web that might say that, they don't take to the streets.
If cops (you know the trained professionals who are supposed to protect and serve) stop killing black folk for such high crimes and misdemeanors as holding toy guns and selling loosies, that will definitely cut down on the number of people taking to the streets.

You misunderstand. Nobody is disputing how the incident played out:

1) Cop spots a vehicle on the hot sheet.

2) Cop calls for backup and follows without his light & siren.

3) Kid (16) realizes he's being followed and takes off.

4) Cop pursues.

5) Kid doesn't realize the 4-lane street he's on suddenly dead-ends (a bridge would be needed to continue, they were working on it.)

6) The cop pulls up, blocks the road and yells for everyone to stay put. (He's still waiting for the backup.)

7) The driver gets out and points the replica at the cop.

8) The cop shoots.

The squawks all are a matter of saying the cop should have done things differently, no other reasonable course of action has been proposed, though. The cop was white, the kid black, this is treated as proof the shoot was racism, never mind the facts. Rather, they present things like the kid was a good kid, never been arrested, was unarmed.

How does society benefit from protests based on some fantasy rather than reality?

Link?

It was in our local paper. My track record on finding anything other than the current news on their site is abysmal and it would be behind a paywall anyway.
 
I am not branding anything. I am not a rancher.
I'm thinking of things like the local case where the car thief pointed realistic replica gun at the cop and got shot for it.
I'm supposed to know your local cases now?
There's no dispute about the facts of the case yet plenty of griping trying to blame the cop. (For example, he should have waited for backup. Never mind that that's exactly what he was doing when the driver pulled the stunt.)
Well evidently there is dispute over the facts, because people are disputing them. :rolleyesa:
For example, no matter how justified the shoot there will be some blacks proclaiming the cops did wrong. That sort of thing doesn't make our country better.
For example no matter how blatantly unjusitifed the shoot there will be some whites proclaiming the cops did no wrong. That sort of thing doesn't make our country better.

I have yet to see a protest like you describe.
Oh you have seen them, you just won't see them that way.
There are some law & order types on the web that might say that, they don't take to the streets.
If cops (you know the trained professionals who are supposed to protect and serve) stop killing black folk for such high crimes and misdemeanors as holding toy guns and selling loosies, that will definitely cut down on the number of people taking to the streets.

You misunderstand. Nobody is disputing how the incident played out:

1) Cop spots a vehicle on the hot sheet.

2) Cop calls for backup and follows without his light & siren.

3) Kid (16) realizes he's being followed and takes off.

4) Cop pursues.

5) Kid doesn't realize the 4-lane street he's on suddenly dead-ends (a bridge would be needed to continue, they were working on it.)

6) The cop pulls up, blocks the road and yells for everyone to stay put. (He's still waiting for the backup.)

7) The driver gets out and points the replica at the cop.

8) The cop shoots.

The squawks all are a matter of saying the cop should have done things differently, no other reasonable course of action has been proposed, though. The cop was white, the kid black, this is treated as proof the shoot was racism, never mind the facts. Rather, they present things like the kid was a good kid, never been arrested, was unarmed.

How does society benefit from protests based on some fantasy rather than reality?

Link?

It was in our local paper. My track record on finding anything other than the current news on their site is abysmal and it would be behind a paywall anyway.

No other paper in your state is covering a 16 year old being shot by a policeman? No local news or radio coverage?
 
I am not branding anything. I am not a rancher.
I'm thinking of things like the local case where the car thief pointed realistic replica gun at the cop and got shot for it.
I'm supposed to know your local cases now?
There's no dispute about the facts of the case yet plenty of griping trying to blame the cop. (For example, he should have waited for backup. Never mind that that's exactly what he was doing when the driver pulled the stunt.)
Well evidently there is dispute over the facts, because people are disputing them. :rolleyesa:
For example, no matter how justified the shoot there will be some blacks proclaiming the cops did wrong. That sort of thing doesn't make our country better.
For example no matter how blatantly unjusitifed the shoot there will be some whites proclaiming the cops did no wrong. That sort of thing doesn't make our country better.

I have yet to see a protest like you describe.
Oh you have seen them, you just won't see them that way.
There are some law & order types on the web that might say that, they don't take to the streets.
If cops (you know the trained professionals who are supposed to protect and serve) stop killing black folk for such high crimes and misdemeanors as holding toy guns and selling loosies, that will definitely cut down on the number of people taking to the streets.

You misunderstand. Nobody is disputing how the incident played out:

1) Cop spots a vehicle on the hot sheet.

2) Cop calls for backup and follows without his light & siren.

3) Kid (16) realizes he's being followed and takes off.

4) Cop pursues.

5) Kid doesn't realize the 4-lane street he's on suddenly dead-ends (a bridge would be needed to continue, they were working on it.)

6) The cop pulls up, blocks the road and yells for everyone to stay put. (He's still waiting for the backup.)

7) The driver gets out and points the replica at the cop.

8) The cop shoots.

The squawks all are a matter of saying the cop should have done things differently, no other reasonable course of action has been proposed, though. The cop was white, the kid black, this is treated as proof the shoot was racism, never mind the facts. Rather, they present things like the kid was a good kid, never been arrested, was unarmed.

How does society benefit from protests based on some fantasy rather than reality?

Link?

It was in our local paper. My track record on finding anything other than the current news on their site is abysmal and it would be behind a paywall anyway.

No other paper in your state is covering a 16 year old being shot by a policeman? No local news or radio coverage?

Convenient.
 
No other paper in your state is covering a 16 year old being shot by a policeman? No local news or radio coverage?
I think I have found the case Loren is talking about.
NLV officer shoots, kills teen-ager
So what do you think cops should have done instead?
Then later this happened: Death threats made against officer
And of course the parents still filed a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Parents of teen-ager killed by NLV officer file lawsuit
Unfortunately the city decided to pay the parents some money instead of risking a jury trial (even though the case is cut and dried): Settlement reached in teen death. I would have told them to get the fuck out. They do not deserve one red cent.
 
No other paper in your state is covering a 16 year old being shot by a policeman? No local news or radio coverage?

There's only one paper in town. There's only one other city big enough for a paper, it's several hours away and I don't know what it might have.

As for tv or radio--they're not very searchable.
 
No other paper in your state is covering a 16 year old being shot by a policeman? No local news or radio coverage?
I think I have found the case Loren is talking about.
NLV officer shoots, kills teen-ager
So what do you think cops should have done instead?
Then later this happened: Death threats made against officer
And of course the parents still filed a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Parents of teen-ager killed by NLV officer file lawsuit
Unfortunately the city decided to pay the parents some money instead of risking a jury trial (even though the case is cut and dried): Settlement reached in teen death. I would have told them to get the fuck out. They do not deserve one red cent.

No, although the facts are similar. The incident I have in mind is roughly 8 miles away. I don't recall the one you found.

It looks like they have revised their archives since the last time I tried to find something--the paywall is apparently gone.

I had also forgotten about the Sun--while the Review Journal and the Sun are quasi-independent it's been many years now that the Sun consists of a section within the Review Journal. As someone who reads the dead-tree version of the newspaper the separate identity gets rather fuzzy.
 
eta: I bet you're a blast at parties.

Actually, yeah. I chose friends that respect intellectual integrity, so they find it very entertaining when I shred the dishonest nonsense of vapid ideologues.

BTW, no one is buying your back-peddling b.s. where you pretend that you weren't being serious or that did not fully believe and support the claims in your own OP.

My comment was unnecessarily mean. I'm sorry ron. :hug:
 
Why am I not surprised that this thread was started by someone who earlier posted a thread titled, "White people are kind of assholes".

You need to stop the self loathing ksen. We're all feeling real embarrassed for you.
 
Why am I not surprised that this thread was started by someone who earlier posted a thread titled, "White people are kind of assholes".

An example of a more provacative headline.

You need to stop the self loathing ksen. We're all feeling real embarrassed for you.

I'm quite comfortable where I am and don't really care that internet messageboard poster "thebeave" feels embarassed for me.
 
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