Nice job of missing the point. I'm saying that's the leftist position, not mine.
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White Liberals Present Themselves as Less Competent in Interactions with African-Americans
- Thread starter thebeave
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Nice job of missing the point. I'm saying that's the leftist position, not mine.
untermensche
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He's right about reading the context. You're attributing to me a position I was ascribing to the left.
I don't think I chose poorly, it's just a bunch of leftists on here didn't want to understand what I actually wrote and tried to attribute the position to me when it should be clear that it is not. I'm not surprised, what I wrote just about amounts to blasphemy to the left and in general people fail to understand what's really being said in something blasphemous.
untermensche
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laughing dog
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I am not surprised that you would project something bigoted and racist to the "left". I am just surprised you did used the term "minorities" instead of "the blacks".
Looking at page 19 of this study, that conclusion seems a bit strained. Seems like both shift quite a bit on average when it comes to "competence language" - the main difference is in the variation between the speeches of the two groups, which is simply not explored as far as I saw (granted, didn't read the entire thing). Still, this wouldn't shock me - liberal racism tends to be more coddling, while conservative racism usually is about endorsing violence, or a simple refusal to even be around black people (note that the four GOP frontrunners simply did not show up to the 2008 Morgan State debate, for example - they famously set up podiums for them anyway, and let them stand there empty - and Tom Tancredo was the only GOP candidate to attend the 2007 NAACP GOP Forum - no shock to see more deviation, if there's far less attempt to even show up).
Jimmy Higgins
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Ohhh... rubber and glue retort. Nice! CLASSY!
The problem with your rubber/glue bs is that you use the word "inferiority" and are putting liberals down over it, because Liberals apparently want to ignore the "inferiority". This implies that you think it shouldn't be ignored, which means you see "inferiority in minorities".
laughing dog
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I did not miss the point. I was pointing out how incredibly stupid your point was, and how implicitly bigoted it was as well.
Rational people reading understood what you meant. Dog had to go out of his way to feign misunderstanding in order to attack you. Higgins is still doing it. Can't just ask you to clarify. Have to presume you meant something you didn't write, even in the face of you saying otherwise.
Tigers!
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Can't argue with that Tom.
southernhybrid
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I think the problem with white liberals who inadvertently dumb down their talk when interacting with black people is that they really don't interact with black people enough to realize that many if most of them are very savvy, and smart, especially when it comes to politics. I've never dumbed down my talk when I speak to black friends and acquaintances, but there have been a few times when I've had the need to dumb down my talk when speaking to white conservatives, who were clueless. It's not that I wanted to do it, but when they look at me like they have no idea what I'm talking about, or when they keep asking me what certain words and terms mean, I try to speak their language, and liberalsplain what I mean.
ruby sparks
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Yeah, looking at one of the 5 studies, it seems that when liberals dumb down their language when talking to blacks, they're only dumbing it down to the same level as conservatives speak when they're talking to white people (and in that study conservatives dumb down ever further when talking to blacks).
Although in another of the studies, conservatives use of 'competent speech' increased when talking to blacks by about as much as the liberal speech decreased.
In another of the 5 studies, there was no significant increase or decrease for either political persuasion.
Overall, the results were mixed, the effects relatively small, ditto the sample sizes, and I am not aware of similar studies. As such, I think it would be rash to take away any strong conclusions from this one set of studies.
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hurtinbuckaroo
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When I see a MAGA cap, I dumb it down about 40 IQ points. But it seems that only the real hardcore ones are still wearing them, so I may have to bump it to 50-60.
ruby sparks
Contributor
Along similarish lines:
10 Ways White Liberals Perpetuate Racism
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-sachs-psyd/10-ways-white-liberals-pe_b_8068136.html
"Somewhere down where we don’t like to go, is a place where racism lives. It’s automatic and hidden. Binding and resistant to change. No matter how well-meaning we are, no matter how open-minded. Like the “root kit” on a computer, racism is hidden and operating without our knowledge."
10 "Microinvalidations":
1. Denial
2. Shame & Hurt
3. Narcolepsy & Ignorance
4. Masochism
5. Apology & Faux Compassion
6. Defensiveness
7. The Pain Game
8. Racial Resume
9. White Guilt
10. Intellectualization
10 Ways White Liberals Perpetuate Racism
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-sachs-psyd/10-ways-white-liberals-pe_b_8068136.html
"Somewhere down where we don’t like to go, is a place where racism lives. It’s automatic and hidden. Binding and resistant to change. No matter how well-meaning we are, no matter how open-minded. Like the “root kit” on a computer, racism is hidden and operating without our knowledge."
10 "Microinvalidations":
1. Denial
2. Shame & Hurt
3. Narcolepsy & Ignorance
4. Masochism
5. Apology & Faux Compassion
6. Defensiveness
7. The Pain Game
8. Racial Resume
9. White Guilt
10. Intellectualization
Jimmy Higgins
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LP had an opportunity to clarify... he really hasn't. Maybe you could enlighten us as to what it means. Because within the context of the OP link, LP is saying liberals are doing the exact opposite of the OP link claim.
ruby sparks
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In view of the results of those studies, I think there is room to say that Loren P made a valid point.
What would be good would be more data to back up saying (as he put it) "an awful lot of the liberal ideas about racial issues actually amount to saying we should ignore the inferiority of minorities rather than saying they are equal".
Because that is going much further than saying that to some extent, even liberals may unconsciously be applying racial bias, prejudice and stereotyping, which I would imagine is true of many liberals, including myself. I think nearly everyone whoever lived does this sort of thing one way or another. That doesn't make it a good thing of course. It's not a good thing.
Admitting it is not entirely unlike unpacking one's invisible privileges generally, in relation to all sorts of things. I wonder what a set of studies on how men talk to women might throw up (and vice versa).
What would be good would be more data to back up saying (as he put it) "an awful lot of the liberal ideas about racial issues actually amount to saying we should ignore the inferiority of minorities rather than saying they are equal".
Because that is going much further than saying that to some extent, even liberals may unconsciously be applying racial bias, prejudice and stereotyping, which I would imagine is true of many liberals, including myself. I think nearly everyone whoever lived does this sort of thing one way or another. That doesn't make it a good thing of course. It's not a good thing.
Admitting it is not entirely unlike unpacking one's invisible privileges generally, in relation to all sorts of things. I wonder what a set of studies on how men talk to women might throw up (and vice versa).
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ruby sparks
Contributor
Check this out:
Why we need to call out casual racism
https://ideas.ted.com/why-we-need-to-call-out-casual-racism/
"There comes a time in every upwardly mobile Black person’s life when they encounter someone who tells them how “well-spoken” and “articulate” they are. It is usually a white person who is earnest and honest in their admiration of your verbal abilities, and in that moment, you swing between being appreciative and being totally offended."
You know the sort of thing. 'Isn't Obama so civilised (for a black man)."
And yet (controversy alert) I read that while on average 62% of all American high-school leavers go to college, the figure for blacks is only 20%. Are American blacks actually, on average, less well-educated and articulate than whites? This would not, of course, justify dumbing down when speaking to them.
Why we need to call out casual racism
https://ideas.ted.com/why-we-need-to-call-out-casual-racism/
"There comes a time in every upwardly mobile Black person’s life when they encounter someone who tells them how “well-spoken” and “articulate” they are. It is usually a white person who is earnest and honest in their admiration of your verbal abilities, and in that moment, you swing between being appreciative and being totally offended."
You know the sort of thing. 'Isn't Obama so civilised (for a black man)."
And yet (controversy alert) I read that while on average 62% of all American high-school leavers go to college, the figure for blacks is only 20%. Are American blacks actually, on average, less well-educated and articulate than whites? This would not, of course, justify dumbing down when speaking to them.
Jimmy Higgins
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Except I still have no idea what it is supposed to mean or if he has anything backing such a claim.
Yes, who can forget this one:
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy, I mean, that's a storybook, man."
- Joe Biden
I seem to recall that ending Biden's political career. He disappeared from public view shortly after.