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White people need to stop saying 'namaste'.

It's about questioning whether your practice of yoga is claiming space away from people of colour to whom yoga is more than a part of their daily routine – it's a part of their cultural and religious identity.

It's about considering whether you can practise yoga without spiritually harvesting a culture and religion that is not yours when you have no deeper understanding, or desire to understand, the historical and social roots of the culture yoga comes from.

And it's about considering whether your casually saying a few namastes at the end of your yoga class feeds into the commodification of Hindu spirituality that then makes it OK for people to Instagram memes such as 'Namaste away from me', to publish a yoga book as a white woman called 'Namaslay', and to make people of South Asian and Hindu identity feel exoticised and misunderstood.

She's asking for consideration, no?

I wonder how she knows that the white teacher lady has not already considered this? What fuels her certainty that the white lady needs to be told to consider?
...if the point is NOT to get the white lady to stop doing it?

Furthermore, how does she know the white lady has no desire to understand more?

At any rate, hooray she's made everyone consider this. Class resumes next week.
 
And it's about considering whether your casually saying a few namastes at the end of your yoga class feeds into the commodification of Hindu spirituality that then makes it OK for people to Instagram memes such as 'Namaste away from me', to publish a yoga book as a white woman called 'Namaslay', and to make people of South Asian and Hindu identity feel exoticised and misunderstood.

You think YOU have it bad!? Imagine if everyone started saying "namaste" in response to people sneezing! How's that for gold-medal misunderstood? Or the many people who morph that into, "dog bless you." It's a crime, I tell you!

I tell people when I hike in the morning that it's my "Catholic Hike" because you have to do the sign of the cross the whole way continuously to brush away the spider webs built overnight.
 
She's asking for consideration, no?

I wonder how she knows that the white teacher lady has not already considered this? What fuels her certainty that the white lady needs to be told to consider?
...if the point is to NOT get the white lady to stop doing it?

What certainty? Where does she say she wants the white lady to stop? Does she say she knows that? I don't see that in the text.

If we ask whether 'Namaslay' is appropriate in terms of Hindu spirituality, what answer do we get? And knowing that, whether the answer is yes or no, are we better off for that knowledge? I think she wants people to ask the question. I don't see where she's demanding one answer.
 
I'm guessing that there is equal evidence that the white lady has already considered it or not. Assuming, that having considered it, the white lady keeps doing it and the Hindu lady has no objection to her doing it, as long as she has considered it (notwithstanding her claim that "it can never be a friendly exchange" when colonialists lead yoga (why does nobody want to address that pretty obvious statement?)) then we're all good in a Schrodinger kind of way..

So, blog... "You need to consider it!" so that... what?
 
If her message was NOT "white people should stop saying Namaste," what was her message? Just slather on some guilt and end with, "but don't mind me," like a Catholic grandmother?

Ya, seriously. Passive aggressive guilting while pretending you're not doing that is a old, white, Catholic lady thing. It's really fucking out of line for this Hitler-wannabe to have appropriated their thing like that. :mad:
 
I'm guessing that there is equal evidence that the white lady has already considered it or not. Assuming, that having considered it, the white lady keeps doing it and the Hindu lady has no objection to her doing it, as long as she has considered it (notwithstanding her claim that "it can never be a friendly exchange" when colonialists lead yoga (why does nobody want to address that pretty obvious statement?)) then we're all good in a Schrodinger kind of way..

That's her issue. You say it can be a friendly exchange(presumably). She says to her it can't.

She has a inherited legacy of European colonialism. You have a legacy from the other side. She can't escape her legacy. Perhaps you can, but she can't, and she's asking for understanding.

So, blog... "You need to consider it!" so that... what?

So - wherever that leads you. Maybe, after studying, you decide that 'Namaslay' is a trivial commodification of Hindu spirituality. Maybe you don't. But if you don't ask, you won't know.
 
i say 'namaste' - i believe most buddhists in america do, regardless of extraction. i say it to other buddhists and south asians, to acknowledge a shared cultural heritage. and i specifically asked an indian muslim if it were offensive and was told 'no, it's just 'hello''. in any case, i probably know more about yoga than the average south asian. am i not supposed to speak spanish to spanish-speakers? i have a mayan jaguar tattoo'd on my leg, little late for that and i did in fact sit down at a table in prison with a guy who had '13' tatt'd on his forehead in blueink (meaning he was MS-13 and a stone cold killer). he liked my tat and thought i was funny i could read the mayan. maybe now i should just say 'namaste' to everyone?

Depends on whether you are white or not.

do you decide that or do i? i decided 'no' decades ago, but that doesn't mean other people give a flop
 
That's her issue. You say it can be a friendly exchange(presumably). She says to her it can't.

She has a inherited legacy of European colonialism. You have a legacy from the other side. She can't escape her legacy. Perhaps you can, but she can't, and she's asking for understanding.

So, blog... "You need to consider it!" so that... what?

So - wherever that leads you. Maybe, after studying, you decide that 'Namaslay' is a trivial commodification of Hindu spirituality. Maybe you don't. But if you don't ask, you won't know.

So is she, or is she not, asking for something to change at the yoga studio? (this one or all of them)
 
That's her issue. You say it can be a friendly exchange(presumably). She says to her it can't.

She has a inherited legacy of European colonialism. You have a legacy from the other side. She can't escape her legacy. Perhaps you can, but she can't, and she's asking for understanding.



So - wherever that leads you. Maybe, after studying, you decide that 'Namaslay' is a trivial commodification of Hindu spirituality. Maybe you don't. But if you don't ask, you won't know.

So is she, or is she not, asking for something to change at the yoga studio? (this one or all of them)

AFAICT she's asking for awareness of these issues from yoga devotees. Would that be a change? If so, then yes.
 
AFAICT she's asking for awareness of these issues from yoga devotees. Would that be a change? If so, then yes.

I claim she already has it. I claim that instructor already knows there is a deeper richer more sacred use of yoga, but feels that bringing some of it to new people to begin to acquire awareness is worthwhile.

Why does the author not know this? Why does the author think an article needs to be written to bring awareness to this teacher? Or that this teacher exemplifies the lack of awareness?

(my answer - she's not really looking for just awareness. She believes that the mere fact that the white woman said this is proof that the white woman knows nothing. She's looking to not have to encounter white women saying "namaste" anymore. Because if she was just looking for awareness, the blog would have links to educational information and tips on how to increase respect and a section about how she approached the teacher and asked if she could devote one class to cultural and historical awareness of yoga's roots.)
 
Depends on whether you are white or not.

do you decide that or do i? i decided 'no' decades ago, but that doesn't mean other people give a flop

Pretty sure I don't decide. In the post post-Dolezal era I think you may be able to declare yourself whatever race you identify with but I am not the decider of those sorts of things either.
 
from the article, in the aurhor's own words:

I eagerly tried to scuttle away when I heard the instructor say 'nam-aasss-tay'.
I didn't try to talk to her, I didn't ask what she knew or why she chose to convey to me that she didn't know by .... um... saying 'nam-aasss-tay'. I eagerly scuttled away.

But hearing namaste chanted by the white yoga instructor to a predominantly white class was unsettling.
I don't know if she studied, or had any deep meaning in her meditative soul, but she was white, and the class was white, and so this can't have been right. I squirmed.

This is primarily because, as a brown girl raised Hindu, to me practising yoga is much more than regularly attending $20 classes wearing trendy activewear.

Aaaahhh, fashion shaming. All these people are not pure because their clothing is wrong.

The asanas, or 'poses', that people perform when they go to their local class are one part of several other practices – including mediation, abstention and liberation – that are considered as a philosophical school in Hinduism.
And I just look at these people and I know they aren't abstaining or meditating anywhere because... I know. They certainly aren't liberated.

There are many caste and class-based critiques of yoga in India and Indian diasporas which say that yoga has often been used as a tool by communities with existing power to project a certain image of what it means to be Indian or Hindu at the expense of minority and oppressed voices.

These arguments aside - it is undeniable that yoga has Hindu roots.
Yes, we should put those arguments aside because it's not worth discussing when Hindus use yoga as a tool by communities with existing power to project a certain image of what it means to be Indian or Hindu at the expense of minority and oppressed voices. That would not advance this discussion of someone non-Hindu using yoga as a tool by communities with existing power to project a certain image [at] the expense of minority and oppressed voices.

Let's just not talk about that part. It's awkward.

Though, to this Hindu girl who migrated to Australia in the 1990s, the appropriation of yoga by western audiences goes further.
Where has she been doing the proper yoga for the last 26 years, anyway? What made her change and go to this goyim studio?

This is an important question, really. 25 years to arrive at this day of unpleasant surprise.

Given most classes are taught by white women, and most ads you see for yoga classes or yoga wear feature white women, white women have become the embodiment of yoga in Australia. As a Hindu woman, this places me as the "other" in a culture that is mine.

Are these appointed positions to which Hindus are being unfairly denied access?
Or is there a shortage of yoga instructors and the Aussies will take what they can get.

Sure, there are yoga teachers in western societies who have studied Hindu teachings in their certified yoga teacher courses. Critically analysing your yoga practice isn't undermining the years these yogis might have spent dedicated to learning this form of exercise, art, lifestyle – whatever it may mean to them.

Unless they say 'nam-aasss-tay', in which case I will be very critical indeed without checking whether the teacher studied Hindu teachings in their certified yoga teacher courses, and undermine the years these yogis might have spent dedicated to learning this form of exercise, art, lifestyle – whatever it may mean to them.

I went back to the original article looking for links to learning more about "real" and "authentic" and "uncommodified" and "unappropriated" yoga. But this author did not advance that cause, at all.
 
White people DON'T need to stop saying 'namaste', DON'T need to take down dream catchers, DON'T need to stop eating egg rolls.

What SOME and CERTAIN white people NEED TO DO is stop pretending that
  1. History started last Tuesday
  2. Heritage actually CAN NOT mean something profound to people not themselves
  3. And that one group for centuries has not been the chief exploiter, manipulator, and ravager of all other groups and even themselves.


What SOME and CERTAIN white people NEED TO DO for themselves is
  1. Quitcher bitchin' pissin' wishin' and whinin'
  2. Stop trying to make mass movements against you out of individual acts of excess and stupidity
  3. And GROW THE FUCK UP!!!


White folk, particularly white men, and even more particularly rich white men, have been and still are the bullies on the block. If you are having problems with fairness, freedom, or good faith, take it up with them and/or the system set up FOR THEM.
 
AFAICT she's asking for awareness of these issues from yoga devotees. Would that be a change? If so, then yes.

I claim she already has it. I claim that instructor already knows there is a deeper richer more sacred use of yoga, but feels that bringing some of it to new people to begin to acquire awareness is worthwhile.

Why does the author not know this? Why does the author think an article needs to be written to bring awareness to this teacher? Or that this teacher exemplifies the lack of awareness?

(my answer - she's not really looking for just awareness. She believes that the mere fact that the white woman said this is proof that the white woman knows nothing. She's looking to not have to encounter white women saying "namaste" anymore. Because if she was just looking for awareness, the blog would have links to educational information and tips on how to increase respect and a section about how she approached the teacher and asked if she could devote one class to cultural and historical awareness of yoga's roots.)

Other than what I guess is a poke at the way the instructor pronounced namaste, there's nothing to indicate anyone's degree of expertise. She doesn't say that the class or the instructor was inexpert or inauthentic and therefore she felt alienated. But her alienation led her to an exploration. And she's honest that part of the issue lies with herself - it can't be a friendly exchange.

You apparently think she has a deceptive agenda. I give her the benefit of that doubt.
 
do you decide that or do i? i decided 'no' decades ago, but that doesn't mean other people give a flop

Pretty sure I don't decide. In the post post-Dolezal era I think you may be able to declare yourself whatever race you identify with but I am not the decider of those sorts of things either.

good, been there, done that - i'm one of the rainbow people, reincarnated from a race of extinct pygmies that once inhabited north america - the ohsaycanyousea people.. good chance that you are, too and haven't realized it yet. but its optional of course - just remember, 'we are rats in the walls of the houses of men.'
 
It's about questioning whether your practice of yoga is claiming space away from people of colour to whom yoga is more than a part of their daily routine – it's a part of their cultural and religious identity.

It's about considering whether you can practise yoga without spiritually harvesting a culture and religion that is not yours when you have no deeper understanding, or desire to understand, the historical and social roots of the culture yoga comes from.

And it's about considering whether your casually saying a few namastes at the end of your yoga class feeds into the commodification of Hindu spirituality that then makes it OK for people to Instagram memes such as 'Namaste away from me', to publish a yoga book as a white woman called 'Namaslay', and to make people of South Asian and Hindu identity feel exoticised and misunderstood.

She's asking for consideration, no?

OK, we've all read her article and considered it. Now what?
 
White people DON'T need to stop saying 'namaste', DON'T need to take down dream catchers, DON'T need to stop eating egg rolls.

What SOME and CERTAIN white people NEED TO DO is stop pretending that
  1. History started last Tuesday
  2. Heritage actually CAN NOT mean something profound to people not themselves
  3. And that one group for centuries has not been the chief exploiter, manipulator, and ravager of all other groups and even themselves.


What SOME and CERTAIN white people NEED TO DO for themselves is
  1. Quitcher bitchin' pissin' wishin' and whinin'
  2. Stop trying to make mass movements against you out of individual acts of excess and stupidity
  3. And GROW THE FUCK UP!!!


White folk, particularly white men, and even more particularly rich white men, have been and still are the bullies on the block. If you are having problems with fairness, freedom, or good faith, take it up with them and/or the system set up FOR THEM.

Most of the time I agree with you, and I have seen valid examples of the point you are making.

In this thread, please show me where anyone other than the author of the article in question in this thread is doing any of the things on your two lists :shrug: Anyone in this thread? Maybe the "white women" yoga instructors or yoga attendees in Australia?
 
White people DON'T need to stop saying 'namaste', DON'T need to take down dream catchers, DON'T need to stop eating egg rolls.

What SOME and CERTAIN white people NEED TO DO is stop pretending that
  1. History started last Tuesday
  2. Heritage actually CAN NOT mean something profound to people not themselves
  3. And that one group for centuries has not been the chief exploiter, manipulator, and ravager of all other groups and even themselves.


What SOME and CERTAIN white people NEED TO DO for themselves is
  1. Quitcher bitchin' pissin' wishin' and whinin'
  2. Stop trying to make mass movements against you out of individual acts of excess and stupidity
  3. And GROW THE FUCK UP!!!


White folk, particularly white men, and even more particularly rich white men, have been and still are the bullies on the block. If you are having problems with fairness, freedom, or good faith, take it up with them and/or the system set up FOR THEM.

Most of the time I agree with you, and I have seen valid examples of the point you are making.

In this thread, please show me where anyone other than the author of the article in question in this thread is doing any of the things on your two lists :shrug: Anyone in this thread? Maybe the "white women" yoga instructors or yoga attendees in Australia?

I am answering the article, the basis of the thread.
 
That's not the only demand from this cultural appropriation mythicist, but it's the first, in this piece:



If you don't like white people, stop going to a white yoga class.

First disclaimer. I'm not a yogi. I don't practice yoga to feel #blessed or to find my inner chakra.

That's good to hear, because chakras don't exist.

This is primarily because, as a brown girl raised Hindu, to me practising yoga is much more than regularly attending $20 classes wearing trendy activewear.

Yoga in Hindu traditions is more than physical exercise. It is a multifaceted philosophy, medicine system and way of life. The asanas, or 'poses', that people perform when they go to their local class are one part of several other practices – including mediation, abstention and liberation – that are considered as a philosophical school in Hinduism.

We should care....because why?

That isn't to say somehow that yoga belongs only to Hindus or to all Hindus. There are many caste and class-based critiques of yoga in India and Indian diasporas which say that yoga has often been used as a tool by communities with existing power to project a certain image of what it means to be Indian or Hindu at the expense of minority and oppressed voices.

These arguments aside - it is undeniable that yoga has Hindu roots.

We should care....because why?

The practice of yoga in western countries for white audiences began in the 1960s when Indian yoga gurus sold yoga as a way to fill a perceived gap in their audience's spirituality.

Chiraag Bhaktha, a.k.a Pardon My Hindi, documented a history of yoga products and advertisements from the 1960s to '80s in his installation '#whitepeopledoingyoga', which exemplified the 'white-fication' of yoga through images of Executive Yoga, Unisex Yoga and even Christian Yoga.

Yoga, a spiritual practice with Hindu roots, has since been distorted into something more palatable for white audiences – a way to exercise and connect with one's spirituality. Whether marketed as an exercise class or a way to connect with your spiritual self, the commodification of yoga in a way that is entirely dismissive or ignorant of its roots or connections to an existing religion is appropriation at its worst. Bhaktha puts it simply in his artist statement:

Why is copying an idea and modifying it morally bad? Are we just supposed to accept that it is?

"The act of selectively choosing what works in popular Western contexts, while ignoring aspects of yoga's core philosophy and historic practice is telling. It shows an ironic attachment of one's ego to a desire for ownership over an ancient practice of material denouncement that emerged from an altogether different, South Asian tradition."

Though, to this Hindu girl who migrated to Australia in the 1990s, the appropriation of yoga by western audiences goes further. It exists alongside a wider ignorance about Hinduism and South Asian culture which, when you've spent a fair amount of your formative years being othered, can hit home hard.

In many western countries, Hinduism is treated as a mystic and ancient tradition and India as magical - ignoring the fact that Hinduism is a living, breathing contemporary religion practised by millions of people in their everyday lives around the world, including a huge Indian diaspora in Australia.

The history of colonisation in India means that the practice of yoga in countries with colonial ties, like Australia,

Holy shit this is offensive. Australia did not colonise India. Australia was colonised by the same people that colonised India.

can never truly be a friendly exchange.

There's nothing to exchange. Indian people do not own the idea of yoga and they have no more moral claim to it than anyone else.

In fact, during their colonial rule, the British banned certain practices of yoga which they perceived as threatening and 'less acceptable' Hindu practices. As a policy of conciliation towards some aspects of Indian culture was pursued by the British in the later years of their rule, the Brits promoted a re-appropriated more physical 'modern' yoga which is more akin to the postural yoga taught in many classes in Australia today.

We should care....because why?

Given most classes are taught by white women, and most ads you see for yoga classes or yoga wear feature white women, white women have become the embodiment of yoga in Australia. As a Hindu woman, this places me as the "other" in a culture that is mine.

You don't own yoga culture and you have no moral claim to police its use.

As South Asian American Perspectives on Yoga in America (SAAPYA) put it brilliantly in their short film 'We are not Exotic, We are Exhausted', such portrayals of yoga can be ostracising and excluding to South Asians who are trying to navigate a dual Western and South Asian identity, especially in the context of people regularly confusing Hindu and Hindi, white people wearing bindis to bush doofs and t-shirts with images of Ganesh and Shiva on them. It also furthers the economic exploitation of the colonised by the colonisers - landing the profits from a practice that has been appropriated from the colonised in the pockets of the colonisers.

"Economic exploitation". Xena have mercy.

Sure, there are yoga teachers in western societies who have studied Hindu teachings in their certified yoga teacher courses. Critically analysing your yoga practice isn't undermining the years these yogis might have spent dedicated to learning this form of exercise, art, lifestyle – whatever it may mean to them. It's about questioning whether your practice of yoga is claiming space away from people of colour to whom yoga is more than a part of their daily routine – it's a part of their cultural and religious identity.

"Claiming space away". Xena have mercy. How can white people doing yoga take space away from you doing yoga? Has somebody put a gun to your head and outlawed what you want to do?

It's about considering whether you can practice yoga without spiritually harvesting

"Spiritually harvesting". Xena have mercy.

a culture and religion that is not yours

That's because culture and religion do not belong to anyone. They're not yours, either.

when you have no deeper understanding, or desire to understand, the historical and social roots of the culture yoga comes from.

We should care....because why?

And it's about considering whether your casually saying a few namastes at the end of your yoga class feeds into the commodification of Hindu spirituality that then makes it OK for people to Instagram memes such as 'Namaste away from me', to publish a yoga book as a white woman called 'Namaslay', and to make people of South Asian and Hindu identity feel exoticised and misunderstood.

Namaslaying it!!

I wish I did yoga so I could get in a pose and instagram this exact phrase to all my white followers.
Holy fuck! You seriously posted something this long to respond to someone's overly acute criticism?
 
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