White people need to stop saying 'namaste'.

[Rhea]

I claim she already has it. I claim that instructor already knows there is a deeper richer more sacred use of yoga, but feels that bringing some of it to new people to begin to acquire awareness is worthwhile.

Why does the author not know this? Why does the author think an article needs to be written to bring awareness to this teacher? Or that this teacher exemplifies the lack of awareness?

(my answer - she's not really looking for just awareness. She believes that the mere fact that the white woman said this is proof that the white woman knows nothing. She's looking to not have to encounter white women saying "namaste" anymore. Because if she was just looking for awareness, the blog would have links to educational information and tips on how to increase respect and a section about how she approached the teacher and asked if she could devote one class to cultural and historical awareness of yoga's roots.)

Other than what I guess is a poke at the way the instructor pronounced namaste, there's nothing to indicate anyone's degree of expertise. She doesn't say that the class or the instructor was inexpert or inauthentic and therefore she felt alienated.

What? Yes she did. She explicitly said that the white woman saying "namaste" was the cherry on the top of the appropriation sundae. She said,

But hearing namaste chanted by the white yoga instructor to a predominantly white class was unsettling. Really? If the yoga class itself wasn't white-centric enough, she really had to place the appropriative cherry on top.

and then she went on to say her issue was with inauthentic unschooled people commodifying it.

You apparently think she has a deceptive agenda. I give her the benefit of that doubt.

Oh. No. I do not think that. I think she genuinely believes she can look at the color of the person saying namaste, the color of the people she's saying it to and the trendiness of their spandex and can conclude - that this woman needs to examine her economic exploitation and claiming the space of the Hindu because it's supposed to be deep and studied and whatever this woman saw in the skin color of the instructor, this blog was needed. No, I don't think she's being deceptive. I do think she genuinely believes that.

 

[RavenSky]

Most of the time I agree with you, and I have seen valid examples of the point you are making.

In this thread, please show me where anyone other than the author of the article in question in this thread is doing any of the things on your two lists Anyone in this thread? Maybe the "white women" yoga instructors or yoga attendees in Australia?

I am answering the article, the basis of the thread.

OK... and as I asked - "please show me where anyone other than the author of the article in question in this thread is doing any of the things on your two lists... Maybe the "white women" yoga instructors or yoga attendees in Australia?"

 

[Horatio Parker]

Other than what I guess is a poke at the way the instructor pronounced namaste, there's nothing to indicate anyone's degree of expertise. She doesn't say that the class or the instructor was inexpert or inauthentic and therefore she felt alienated.

What? Yes she did. She explicitly said that the white woman saying "namaste" was the cherry on the top of the appropriation sundae. She said,

But hearing namaste chanted by the white yoga instructor to a predominantly white class was unsettling. Really? If the yoga class itself wasn't white-centric enough, she really had to place the appropriative cherry on top.

and then she went on to say her issue was with inauthentic unschooled people commodifying it.

Where in any of that do you learn that anyone is unqualified? What I get from that is that the experience was, for her, very white. Precisely what that means I don't know, but I accept her feelings of alienation. But without specifics, and there are none, I don't see what grounds there are for saying she accusing anyone in particular. It's not even clear to me that she knows enough yoga to make that call.

You apparently think she has a deceptive agenda. I give her the benefit of that doubt.

Oh. No. I do not think that. I think she genuinely believes she can look at the color of the person saying namaste, the color of the people she's saying it to and the trendiness of their spandex and can conclude - that this woman needs to examine her economic exploitation and claiming the space of the Hindu because it's supposed to be deep and studied and whatever this woman saw in the skin color of the instructor, this blog was needed. No, I don't think she's being deceptive. I do think she genuinely believes that.

I think she believes that anyone who claims to care about yoga should confront that. Yes, she thinks that her birth, upbringing and culture give her something of an inside track wrt yoga. So?

 

[Rhea]

Where in any of that do you learn that anyone is unqualified?

By the fact that she became upset and wrote this blog. The fact that she felt unwelcome.

What I get from that is that the experience was, for her, very white. Precisely what that means I don't know, but I accept her feelings of alienation.

Oh, I know exactly what she means. And in general I sympathize with it completely. For almost 20 years I worked among mostly men. I know what it is like to be one of the very few women in the room and how disconcerting that alone can be. I do get that. Completely. I remember at one meeting looking around and realizing, "holy shit there are a lot of high white foreheads in here" like, all of them, except mine. And yes, I understand the idea of being alienated in that when certain jokes or whatnot are told and it's obvious that my presence is not factored in. And conversely, I've been to an enormously attended funeral for someone who is black and a member of a large black church, and being keenly aware that there was a whole community feeling that, while it did not actively exclude me or try to make me feel unwelcome, was certainly there to be noticed by me, appreciated and understood. (If that makes any sense; a funeral service itself is a place that begs for understanding, and one for a teen begs understanding of kids and their world, and one that is not your own church or neighborhood or race deserves understanding of those as well.)


So I get that, I understand.

I think she believes that anyone who claims to care about yoga should confront that. Yes, she thinks that her birth, upbringing and culture give her something of an inside track wrt yoga. So?

So she wrote an article that implies the instructor had not confronted that ("cherry on top, eagerly scurrying away") and appears to have no reason to have claimed that. In my opinion. Yours is clearly different. And that's fine.

See, the way I read it, the discussion of looking deeper into the history of a thing is great advice. But she was a real shit about it for saying "white woman" eleventy billion times and making fun of their clothes and claiming that the white woman needs to check her privilege without ever asking the white woman what her background is.

The whole premise of the article is fine EXCEPT she walks away without asking any questions and writes a public blog accusing the instructor of being a culture-thieving colonizer.

I agree with caring about culture. I really really do! I completely applaud all those people who put on culture days and share their backgrounds. I love that stuff. I adore friends and family who are willing to talk about culture and race and all those topics where knowledge is tolerance. I like talking about it here, too; so much to learn and understand.

But this blog is just kind of mean-spirited, snarky and shallow. I didn't like it at all, I felt it harmed the message.

 

[RavenSky]

By the fact that she became upset and wrote this blog. The fact that she felt unwelcome.

What I get from that is that the experience was, for her, very white. Precisely what that means I don't know, but I accept her feelings of alienation.

Oh, I know exactly what she means. And in general I sympathize with it completely. For almost 20 years I worked among mostly men. I know what it is like to be one of the very few women in the room and how disconcerting that alone can be. I do get that. Completely. I remember at one meeting looking around and realizing, "holy shit there are a lot of high white foreheads in here" like, all of them, except mine. And yes, I understand the idea of being alienated in that when certain jokes or whatnot are told and it's obvious that my presence is not factored in. And conversely, I've been to an enormously attended funeral for someone who is black and a member of a large black church, and being keenly aware that there was a whole community feeling that, while it did not actively exclude me or try to make me feel unwelcome, was certainly there to be noticed by me, appreciated and understood. (If that makes any sense; a funeral service itself is a place that begs for understanding, and one for a teen begs understanding of kids and their world, and one that is not your own church or neighborhood or race deserves understanding of those as well.)


So I get that, I understand.

I think she believes that anyone who claims to care about yoga should confront that. Yes, she thinks that her birth, upbringing and culture give her something of an inside track wrt yoga. So?

So she wrote an article that implies the instructor had not confronted that ("cherry on top, eagerly scurrying away") and appears to have no reason to have claimed that. In my opinion. Yours is clearly different. And that's fine.

See, the way I read it, the discussion of looking deeper into the history of a thing is great advice. But she was a real shit about it for saying "white woman" eleventy billion times and making fun of their clothes and claiming that the white woman needs to check her privilege without ever asking the white woman what her background is.

The whole premise of the article is fine EXCEPT she walks away without asking any questions and writes a public blog accusing the instructor of being a culture-thieving colonizer.

I agree with caring about culture. I really really do! I completely applaud all those people who put on culture days and share their backgrounds. I love that stuff. I adore friends and family who are willing to talk about culture and race and all those topics where knowledge is tolerance. I like talking about it here, too; so much to learn and understand.

But this blog is just kind of mean-spirited, snarky and shallow. I didn't like it at all, I felt it harmed the message.

All of that except I didn't feel particularly harmed (my "white women" privilege prevents me from being harmed by her racism)... more like and that she harmed the general message she was trying to send.

 

[Rhea]

But this blog is just kind of mean-spirited, snarky and shallow. I didn't like it at all, I felt it harmed the message.

All of that except I didn't feel particularly harmed (my "white women" privilege prevents me from being harmed by her racism)... more like and that she harmed the general message she was trying to send.

Oh, I didn't mean it harmed me - I meant it harmed her ability to spread her message by being a red herring, basically.

'cause, yeah, my white woman privilege is definitely strong with the force.

 

[Arctish]

She's asking for consideration, no?

OK, we've all read her article and considered it. Now what?

Now nothing.

She asked people to consider the points she raised and we have. Mission accomplished.

Perhaps there are some people who have read her article and have changed their minds about making puns out of the word namiste. Perhaps a few will look deeper into the history of yoga than they would have otherwise. Perhaps there's one or two who caught a glimpse of what it's like seeing your culture's spiritual and philosophical traditions turned into an Egg McMuffin. Or perhaps not. It doesn't matter though. Not to us, anyway.

No one's under any obligation to agree with her.

 

[Rhea]

She asked people to consider the points she raised and we have. Mission accomplished.

Perhaps there are some people who have read her article and have changed their minds about making puns out of the word namiste. Perhaps a few will look deeper into the history of yoga than they would have otherwise. Perhaps there's one or two who caught a glimpse of what it's like seeing your culture's spiritual and philosophical traditions turned into an Egg McMuffin. Or perhaps not. It doesn't matter though. Not to us, anyway.

No one's under any obligation to agree with her.

"Namaste." You namaslayed the spelling of that.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Wonder how she thinks she made the Aussie women feeling making fun of their clothes like that, though?

 

[Horatio Parker]

Granting that hers may be an imperfect message crafted by an imperfect person, does she not have a point?

Or does the Sin of Snark or, worse, Ignorance of White Women Suffering invalidate her application?

 

[Rhea]

Granting that hers may be an imperfect message crafted by an imperfect person, does she not have a point?

Or does the Sin of Snark or, worse, Ignorance of White Women Suffering invalidate her application?

Well, now, that is an excellent question. I believe that one can completely obscure one's point by dragging a particularly pungent red herring across the trail. One presents a case that this is just as important to one as that by juxtaposing them in the same space.

Indeed one presents that they are equally worthy of discussion in one's eyes.

And so, we get what we have here today. People discussing both. Reacting to both. Affected by both.
Based on the author's choice to present both as equals.

 

[RavenSky]

Granting that hers may be an imperfect message crafted by an imperfect person, does she not have a point?

What point?

 

[Arctish]

Wonder how she thinks she made the Aussie women feeling making fun of their clothes like that, though?

Calling it trendy activewear was making fun of it?

Wow, I'm going to have to stop repeating the terminology I hear on Project Runway. Last night's episode had the designers making something called 'high-end athleisure'. Gawd knows how many women I'd offend if I called their outfits that.

 

[JonA]

Perhaps there are some people who have read her article and have changed their minds about making puns out of the word namiste.

If so, that would be a real shame.

 

[Arctish]

Perhaps there are some people who have read her article and have changed their minds about making puns out of the word namiste.

If so, that would be a real shame.

Yabbut, making puns out of the word नमस्ते is really hard. Have you tried it? And the results I've seen are pretty lame.

She might have done a few folks a real favor there.

 

[Will Wiley]

Language is always evolving. So the girl IMHO should get over it
Mind you I never say Namaste...I always take care to say "the spirit in me salutes the spirit in you". And do say that if it's called for. It's a fairly non religious way of connecting.People grasp what is meant what ever their beliefs

 

[repoman]

Language is always evolving. So the girl IMHO should get over it
Mind you I never say Namaste...I always take care to say "the spirit in me salutes the spirit in you". And do say that if it's called for. It's a fairly non religious way of connecting.People grasp what is meant what ever their beliefs

You dirty hippy

 

[dismal]

She asked people to consider the points she raised and we have. Mission accomplished.

Perhaps there are some people who have read her article and have changed their minds about making puns out of the word namiste. Perhaps a few will look deeper into the history of yoga than they would have otherwise. Perhaps there's one or two who caught a glimpse of what it's like seeing your culture's spiritual and philosophical traditions turned into an Egg McMuffin. Or perhaps not. It doesn't matter though. Not to us, anyway.

No one's under any obligation to agree with her.

"Namaste."

Yeah, seriously show some respect.

- - - Updated - - -

Mind you I never say Namaste...

You just did, man. You just did.

 

[Rhea]

Wonder how she thinks she made the Aussie women feeling making fun of their clothes like that, though?

Calling it trendy activewear was making fun of it?

Wow, I'm going to have to stop repeating the terminology I hear on Project Runway. Last night's episode had the designers making something called 'high-end athleisure'. Gawd knows how many women I'd offend if I called their outfits that.

Naw, not just using those words. As you know (~smile~ I know you do) one can say something in a context that turns out to mock and one can say the same words in a different context that isn't.

to me practising yoga is much more than regularly attending $20 classes wearing trendy activewear.

This was not intended to make a benign statement about their shopping skillz. And we both know that. It was used in the context that says their clothing is just one more evidence that they are poseurs.

 

[Underseer]

Oh my god! White people are being persecuted by Hindus! When will this terrible oppression of white people ever end? *sob*

[/sarcasm]

 

[bilby]

Oh my god! White people are being persecuted by Hindus! When will this terrible oppression of white people ever end? *sob*

[/sarcasm]

They Hindu nuffin.