Sorry Zipper. The thread took a turn on what an historical jesus would have looked like, and not the European imposter. In 2001 the BBC did a documentary and doing a facial reconstruction from an actual skull from the time created a likeness.
In 2001 forensic anthropologist Richard Neave created a model of a Galilean man for a BBC documentary, Son of God, working on the basis of an actual skull found in the region. He did not claim it was Jesus's face. It was simply meant to prompt people to consider Jesus as being a man of his time and place, since we are never told he looked distinctive.
If I had any technical skills I could lift the image and place it here but at the link the image is well down the article under item 4. Features. Maybe someone who knows how can place the image here if anyone is interested. It is most likely the most accurate historical representation ever undertaken of a possible historical Jesus.
Sorry Zipper. The thread took a turn on what an historical jesus would have looked like, and not the European imposter. In 2001 the BBC did a documentary and doing a facial reconstruction from an actual skull from the time created a likeness.
In 2001 forensic anthropologist Richard Neave created a model of a Galilean man for a BBC documentary, Son of God, working on the basis of an actual skull found in the region. He did not claim it was Jesus's face. It was simply meant to prompt people to consider Jesus as being a man of his time and place, since we are never told he looked distinctive.
If I had any technical skills I could lift the image and place it here but at the link the image is well down the article under item 4. Features. Maybe someone who knows how can place the image here if anyone is interested. It is most likely the most accurate historical representation ever undertaken of a possible historical Jesus.
So, let's talk about the Blaxploitation era, movies written, produced and starring Black actors, in an attempt to attract Black urban folks. But, they attracted both Black and white folks, then the NAACP and some Black Christian organization, who's name I can't recall, reigned them in as they thought they were offensive. I guess this old white woman doesn't get that. The movies were low budget and very popular and I confess that I've watched three of the Shaft movies more times than I'm willing to admit. I was sad when Richard Roundtree, the star of the original Shaft, who also starred in the last one died last year. I don't think Black people are magical. I think Black culture is just so much cooler compared to white culture, if there even is such a thing. And who could be cooler than Shaft?
Who's the black private dick that's a sex machine to all the chicks?
(Shaft)
You're damn right
Who is the man that would risk his neck for his brother man?
(Shaft)
Can you dig it?
Who's the cat that won't cop out when there's danger all about?
(Shaft)
Right on
They say this cat Shaft is a bad mother
(Shut your mouth)
But I'm talkin' 'bout Shaft
(Then we can dig it)
He's a complicated man
But no one understands him but his woman
(John Shaft)
I liked how Pam Grier got her fame back, the best way in "Jackie Brown." That was Quentin Tarantino's epic (imo) film that sends up (imo) the Blaxploitation genre, while at the same time, abusing it. We all know about Tarantino and Samuel L Jackson's collabs on the N word. Ugh, Quentin is obsessed. I won't see "D'Jango Unchained" because, why? I am more than familiar with Samuel L Jackson's renditions of the N word.
Speaking of, has anyone else seen "Jackie Brown"? I listen to the soundtrack often. Pam Grier has always been a queen and goddess whose altar I would kneel before. Ohh she's great. Pam's reclaiming her own fame and her own career was and is the main reason why I like the movie. Plus, it is a damn good movie.
16 minutes of 1997 Pam Grier (Queen) and Quentin Tarantino (Movie Geek) on "Jackie Brown."
ETA: After seeing this video, I left a comment on the Tubes of You. The edit window here is still open; the following posts are not replies to this, so, here is my full comment (made with emotion):
Great interview for a great movie. I'd say Jackie Brown is maybe #2 (for me) in my rank of Tarantino movies, with Pulp Fiction at #1 ... oh, but, Reservoir Dogs... anyway. AWESOME role, epic role. Pam Grier has always been a queen and goddess whose altar I would kneel before. Ohh she's great. Pam's reclaiming her own fame and her own career was and is the main reason why I like the movie. Plus, it is a damn good movie.
The soundtrack is also perfect! Oh yeah! It's my favorite Tarantino soundtrack, BECAUSE of Pam Grier, walking away, then driving that car, "Up on 110th Street" blasting! OH that ending, Pam's face; she owns the movie. Tarantino really was at his best here and so was she. Heck, the entire cast (and crew, and all who worked on this movie) were excellent. Pam Grier deserves all honors for her work in the title role. Quentin Tarantino deserves his props for writing the role, having the vision to do so, and for all of this, too.
It is beyond entertainment; the movie Jackie Brown is way beyond just some show you put on the TV. I liked Bridget Fonda, as an actor, too; she was also fantastic. Everyone was good in this movie. Samuel L Jackson was so slick. Superb screenplay,; perfect 1997 time capsule, with all the actors at their best.
PAM Grier though! Her look on her drive away from the drama was so satisfying to me, who'd found 1991's Thelma and Louise drive away to be not as pleasing for so many years, until I got to groove to Jackie Brown's determination and freedom as she made her epic escape. It was like, daaaaamn.
As to why black culture is cooler than white culture... Whites don't have culture, or rather the culture of whites in America is entirely based off of the rat race. There's just no mystery or magic or fight there to be won. White culture is "running on a treadmill". It's fucking boring.
I had to dig back all the way to medieval times to find culture worth having, anything interesting or fantastic... And that very culture was aggressively stomped out by those who sit at the top of the culture we have today, for all the fragments of it I retain.
Nobody in white America is encouraged to really explore who they are or who they can be. They are told from birth some quaint lie meant to starve them of that reality because as was pointed out in The Never Ending Story those without dreams are easy to control.
My black friends joke that white people would slit their mother's throat to move up the career ladder or make money. Sadly I have to say it does describe a lot of white people I know. Jarhyn, I agree with your statement above.
"Hey, this is the Magical Negro. Like in the movies, where the black character is just there to help the white guy on his journey. And he mainly speaks in folksy sayings. 'I don't know much about blah blah. But a man's gotta have his blah.'"
— Kenneth, Speechless
OH I loved the TV show "Speechless." I am not a TV or movie person most of the time. I watched all of "Speechless." Cedric Yarbrough can do no wrong. He was also in "The Goldbergs," a show to which I have a slight personal connection ("JTP!"). Cedric's character in "Speechless" was an aide to a teen with cerebral palsy "portrayed by Micah Fowler" whose job it was to help usher young JJ DiMeo through high school, with girls and fun on the mind, as his parents did wild poor people stuff.
Back to the TV Tropes page, for this thread:
A minority character will step forward to help the protagonist, with their pure heart and folksy wisdom, and possibly magic. They are usually black, but may come from another oppressed minority. They step into the life of the much more privileged (and, in particular, almost always white) central character and, in some way, enrich that central character's life. If the Magical Negro (also known as Magic Negro or Mystical Negro) is from a society of Noble Savages, expect an AnviliciousAesop about the failings of the protagonist's society — which usually leads to the protagonist "Going Native".
With such deep spiritual wisdom (and sometimes — though not always — actual supernatural powers), you might wonder why the Magical Negro doesn't step up and save the day himself. In fact, the Magical Negro really seems to have no goal in life other than helping white people achieve their fullest potential; he may even be ditched or killed outright once he's served that purpose. If he does express any selfish desires, it will only be in the context of helping the white protagonists realize their own racism and thereby become better people.
Bonus points if this character is a priest of Vodoun. If female, they will nearly always also be a Sassy Black Woman.
NOTE: We could discuss whether or not the character "Jackie Brown" is a trope or not, I say NOT. She wasn't that "sassy" type; Jackie Brown was trying to survive by surviving, and by using her brains, preparation, and determination. Not sass. There was no superficial or stereotypical characterization in the script or in Pam Grier's performance of 1997's Jackie Brown. Was there??
Your thoughts, please? Am I wrong?
Back to this TV Tropes page, please go read it all, I have snipped some to show how filmmaker Spike Lee identified the Magical Negro Trope. BUT - you gotta hear my unhinged idea about a song that has a similar, related trope of "Happy Slave." Later.
Another related trope is White Man's Burden, where the plot is about an ordinary white person who befriends an underprivileged minority character. Related to Magical Romani, which is about Romani characters having magical abilities (or otherwise associated with the supernatural). Also compare Magical Jew.
The term "Magical Negro" was popularized by Spike Lee during a lecture denouncing this trope.
The Magical Negro is a trope in American cinema, television, and literature. In the cinema of the United States, the Magical Negro is a supportingstock character who comes to the aid of whiteprotagonists in a film.[1] Magical Negro characters, often possessing special insight or mystical powers, have long been a tradition in American fiction.[2] The old-fashioned word "Negro" is used to imply that a "magical black character" who devotes himself to selflessly helping whites is a throwback to racist stereotypes such as the "Sambo" or "noble savage".[2]
The term was popularized in 2001 by film director Spike Lee during a lecture tour of college campuses, in which he expressed his dismay that Hollywood continued to employ this premise. He specially noted the films The Green Mile and The Legend of Bagger Vance, which featured "super-duper magical Negro" characters.[3][4][5][6]
So it's certainly not an old idea. I already liked Spike Lee. I missed some of his movies, but knew about them and discussed Lee's themes and messages often. I watched MTV, and saw Spike Lee there a lot.
Side note, it's the same as people like me (white people) discussed John Singleton's very strong messages in the 1991 movie "Boyz n the Hood," which at the time, we made fun of, because it was as if he had used the DARE Program to get some talking points, and we smoked pot and were all about that life. We were critical.
I don't really remember if I saw "Boyz n the Hood" in the theater when it came out. I know I saw it a few times, but I was likely high, so I do not remember the screen I saw. Definitely TV. I was busy dancing and clubbing and traveling in 1991, with little time for movie theaters. (I prefer home theater a lot.) But I had no cable TV or home theater in the early 1990s. I still remember SEEING "Boyz n the Hood," and incorporating some of the script dialog in my slang, as people do, when they consume media, or read, or learn things, etc. As a movie prude, I need a reason to see a movie, and usually, a companion to see it with.
A disadvantage of seeing movies in theaters is my location and the people who take me out, or who watch movies with me. Mostly white people, and I don't really like it. As @Jarhyn said, "white culture" is not a good culture. That's why Black culture is called "THE CULTURE." Because it that is what it is, culture. So, seeing a movie in a theater full of white people means silence while we consume the media and take the film in. We may whisper to our companions; raising our voices is rude.
Seeing a movie in a theater with mostly Black people (mostly African-American) is so much more fun for me, because I yell and holler at the screen and the media I consume, and, so do a lot of Black people who watch movies near me, or with whom I have gone to the theater to see a movie. OH there are comedy bits about it. There is no silence. There is audience participation, commentary, raucous laughter, call outs, call backs, opinions, and a lot of yelling to the screen and to and or about each other.
I grew up in South Jersey and Philadelphia PA, a very diverse area with a great Black culture. I also had a different kind of life; and have often been "the white girl/woman in the 'hood/Black space." It's my preference. I have lived in all-white areas and *Hated It* ("In Living Color" style).
OH my siblings are kind of racist and do not feel the way I do (my mom's influence on me was MUCH different). So they resented where we lived and they never got into The Culture the way I did (which was Gen X, Great American Melting Pot belief-driven). I mean,
I liked breakdancing and beatboxing, then rap came out. I was exposed to white rap, too (nobody wants to hear about Adam Ant or Wham!, who I knew and liked, much less Ian Dury and The Blockheads, who I did not know of at all until 2024 - but Debbie Harry got to be the first white woman rapper on MTV with "Rapture.")
My black friends joke that white people would slit their mother's throat to move up the career ladder or make money. Sadly I have to say it does describe a lot of white people I know. Jarhyn, I agree with your statement above.
It doesn't help that in America, though, the "culture of the land" is closed to us because the people of america were so shitty to the people that culture originates from, and actively sought to stamp THAT out too.
Very rarely is any "magical" character the main character though.
I'll note that almost always, the main character is a wealthy white lordling or princess, some kind of "legacy" birth to money. In books, sometimes, the hero is the wizard... But the filter of process in bringing something to the screen means that those stories end up not being told to the wider audience.
White America is forcefed the idea that they are of the chosen people, those most favored by virtue of sheer "majority", and that every lead-soaked idiot with a violent streak or a nice set of tits and some self importance, anyone with an inheritance, really, can rule their own little chunk of reality.
It's not just black people that end up not being considered the hero of the story.
Yes we do occasionally get a story about a wizard. Sometimes we get a story with a minority lead... But far more often this person is just the stepping stone to success for the white guy with the pointy and/or shooty object.
And it makes sense, if only because the people with the most money to patronize the stories told among us are going to be people who have the money and advantages that come with inheritance, and want to be encouraged and told they are right and special and deserve and earn what they have.
It's a tale as old as greed.
I would as soon popularize the direct and sharp criticism of Legacy Heroism.
lol once, in 1995 or 1996, my husband I tried to get an apartment in Glassboro, aka, "The 'Boro." We were denied. The guy who had told us about the apartment because HE LIVED IN THE OTHER HALF OF THE DUPLEX, on this dead-end street, with woods (no houses) across the street, and who knew that his landlord SOUGHT renters, *and* who was a friend we hung out with at least 3, 4 times a week, who set up our appointment to tour the place next to him, to be HIS neighbors, that HE chose, was very bitter and sad when we got denied. He asked his landlord what happened and why did we not get the place.
The landlord told him, "I didn't want to break up the neighborhood" by renting to a white couple.
My husband was half-Mexican (via California, so, envision a Jerry Garcia look) and he was outraged. I totally got it, I mean, the landlord was PISSED at our friend when he saw our pale faces arrive. Our friend hadn't mentioned race or skin tone or melanin or lack thereof to the landlord. I bet he knew not to tell him. He was our buddy who wanted to get closer; he worked with one of my husband's BFFs, who was marrying a girl who I had a deep weird connection to.
ANYWAY, he was Black and we weren't, so, we didn't get that duplex. Later, all of us stopped hanging out and being friends. I was so sad over that, not to mention not being allowed to live on that dead-end street back in the 'Boro. I loved it.
We can't outlaw it... But we can taboo it and widely and roundly criticize it (and doubly so those who criticize it to deflect from their own greed).
I'll also note, often enough the wizard/black guy/minority that is a villain, despite the fact that never in the history of mankind has a wizard/minority ever really been the effective villain of history.
We have always and only ever been blamed for the actions others make after generally forcing the inventor to invent weapons, or making false promises to said inventors.
Prometheus, one obscure peer among many steals fire and makes life better for everyone and gets punished on a rock getting their liver pecked out every day for all eternity. Hercules slaughters his way across the world with a pointy stick and a magic horse because "His Daddy" and he's celebrated.
It was two separate thoughts, the second having little to do with the first.
Rather in the second paragraph on it was discussing further the tendency to cast the people in society with the least power as the villains in many fictions.
Now, y'all are making me think of the sheriff in Mel Brooks, greatest hit, imo, "Blazing Saddles". The Black sheriff saves the town from a bunch of criminals who want to destroy it for their own greedy purposes. The cool, smart Black sheriff played by Cleavon Little makes the racists look like morons but then goes on to save the town for them. Mel Brooks is a comedic genius and while the movie would be considered politically incorrect these days, as too many people don't have a sense of humor when it comes to satire and the usage of improper words, it's my all time favorite comedy, and I guess it could be added to the list of movies that have a "magical Negro" saving the day. You may know that Richard Pryor was supposed to play the part of Bart originally, but he had a reputation for being difficult to work with, so they asked Little to play the role of the sheriff, but Pryor helped write the movie. It's primarily met to satirize old Westerns but it also satirizes racism.
I think one of the problems with white culture is that most of us pale white people have very mixed backgrounds so we don't really identify with a specific culture. My husband, who is of Arabic heritage does have a culture to embrace. The funny part is that his parents always considered themselves white, but some of my younger friends consider him a "person of color", so now I refer to him as whitish. Still, we are all humans and this obsession with race and ethnicity is rather silly. On the other hand, cultural differences are pretty cool, imo and we should be able to embrace the culture of others, as well as share any aspects of our own. I just wish I had one to embrace, so since I live in a Black majority town, I guess I'll have to appropriate it a little. /s Actually, I once told a Black friend of mine that since Black culture was the dominate one locally, we could all use it. She laughed.
This all reminds me of the first episode of the sitcom, "The Neighborhood", where a white guy moves into an all Black neighborhood and he is very excited to become a part of the neighborhood. The Black neighbor says, "There are two types of racists. The kind that love Black people and the type that hate Black people." I guess I'm guilty of the first type.
Can somebody explain why this thread is in the political section?
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