White privilege

[Underseer]

Other:

I am white, and I believe that "privilege" is an inherently relative and contextual term and thus a phrase like "white privilege" that implies a general privilege of whiteness is a invalid, misleading, and dehumanizes the experiences of individuals. I have privileges over some people of all races and some people of all races have privileges over me. And this it true of the vast majority of people of all races.

Like most people my level of privilege relative to various others has changed over the course of my live based upon near infinite events, mostly random. Yet my whiteness has not changed, thus further invalidating the concept of "white privilege"

It is true that at an aggregated level, ignoring individual persons, the average level of privileges of whites as a group is higher than the average level of blacks as a group. However, a term like "white privilege" does not convey this well and is rarely used in a way to limit its meaning to this. At best it is needlessly intellectually lazy.
.

Of course. All white people don't live in mansions, therefore no white people enjoy unfair advantages over others as a consequence of participating in this society.

Everything you have came through your own hard work (and the fact that your forefathers stepped on the necks of others, but that shouldn't count because it might make us feel bad!).

 

[fast]

I have a question. It's complicated and hard to follow, but it matters.

Let's say that this thing thing we call white priveledge exists, but let us also say that it's not a privilege. Does that have a bearing on the question asked? For instance, would you agree with those of us that deny we whites are privledged if we agree to having this thing called white privilege?

In other words, would you simultaneously agree that a) whites are not privledged while also agreeing that b) whites have white privilege?

Complicated, I know, but for those who think whites have white privilege, do you also deny that whites are privileged via virtue of being white?

This speaks to what it means to say of someone that they are privileged. We may have something that we call (we call, I say) white privilege, but that we call it has no bearing on it in fact being that. It's something we have, but it's not a privilege--call it that as we might.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I'm not white.

I wasn't talking about you.

Then you're missing the point of my statement. Non-white people have voted, white people have voted. Only white people voted that white privilege exists.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So you're saying White privilege is not just something in the US. You're not saying it isn't there.

White privilege makes no sense in a country with racist blacks in charge.

Yet the whites are still more likely to be educated. What you are missing is that people are a product of their families, not just society at large.

- - - Updated - - -

Sure. You got to where you are because of that superior intellect you get from those superior white genes. That's why you guys are flocking to those Trump rallies blaming minorities for your bad life choices.

It's the Mexicans' fault you can't find a job. Build that wall!

I see no reason to think it's superior genes. Rather, it's a culture that puts more value on education. Note that we are way behind the Asians here for the same reason we are ahead of the blacks.

 

[untermensche]

So you're saying White privilege is not just something in the US. You're not saying it isn't there.

White privilege makes no sense in a country with racist blacks in charge.

So in the USA it makes sense.

Yet the whites are still more likely to be educated.

Evidence?

What I like about asking you for evidence is it usually makes you run away.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm not white.

I wasn't talking about you.

Then you're missing the point of my statement. Non-white people have voted, white people have voted. Only white people voted that white privilege exists.

Then maybe you don't see any value in self reflection.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Then you're missing the point of my statement. Non-white people have voted, white people have voted. Only white people voted that white privilege exists.

Then maybe you don't see any value in self reflection.

So us minorities are blind to white privilege? We need progressives to teach us to recognize it?

 

[laughing dog]

Then you're missing the point of my statement. Non-white people have voted, white people have voted. Only white people voted that white privilege exists.

Then maybe you don't see any value in self reflection.

So us minorities are blind to white privilege? We need progressives to teach us to recognize it?

There are plenty of people in minority communities who are not blind to white privilege. Generalizing from a sample of 1 is not usually a good way to construct an effective argument.

 

[phands]

What about: i'm white, and embarrassed that white privilege is real?

 

[Politesse]

Then you're missing the point of my statement. Non-white people have voted, white people have voted. Only white people voted that white privilege exists.

Well, wouldn't we know?

Are you suggesting that we all just mistakenly believe we have a privilege we don't?

 

[untermensche]

I do not have a race I have a heritage.

A heritage gives you a few genes that are slightly different. But it does not give you a "race".

But I am a human.

On average, if we consider all traits, the exact same thing as any other human.

One head. Two eyes. Two legs with ten toes. One liver. One spleen. Two kidneys.

Mitochondria supplying energy.

Not a different thing.

If all we look at is skin color and hair texture and a few features of the face then we can pretend I am a different thing.

Race is an end result of myopia.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

In the U.S. white privilege is real. Christian privilege is also real. Come live in Pennsyltucky if you don't believe me.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So in the USA it makes sense.

Yet the whites are still more likely to be educated.

Evidence?

What I like about asking you for evidence is it usually makes you run away.

Ever been in Africa?

 

[untermensche]

So in the USA it makes sense.

Yet the whites are still more likely to be educated.

Evidence?

What I like about asking you for evidence is it usually makes you run away.

Ever been in Africa?

That is not close to giving evidence.

That you think it could pass as evidence shows a deficiency.

 

[Trausti]

"White Privilege" is akin to blood libel. Whenever it is brought up, it is used to demean, degrade, and dehumanize. It casts a group of people as actively or indirectly involved in deceit and the mistreatment of others. All gains by members of this pariah group are assumed ill-gotten. It's simply racism and racist employ it as an excuse for their racism.

 

[Politesse]

"White Privilege" is akin to blood libel. Whenever it is brought up, it is used to demean, degrade, and dehumanize. It casts a group of people as actively or indirectly involved in deceit and the mistreatment of others. All gains by members of this pariah group are assumed ill-gotten. It's simply racism and racist employ it as an excuse for their racism.

Are you serious? I don't feel "dehumanized" by recognizing the obvious, nor do I feel that it is racist to look plainly at the problems of race relations. Race is pseudoscience, and we would be better off without it. But our society is built around it, and until that is no longer true, we must talk about it.

 

[Trausti]

"White Privilege" is akin to blood libel. Whenever it is brought up, it is used to demean, degrade, and dehumanize. It casts a group of people as actively or indirectly involved in deceit and the mistreatment of others. All gains by members of this pariah group are assumed ill-gotten. It's simply racism and racist employ it as an excuse for their racism.

Are you serious? I don't feel "dehumanized" by recognizing the obvious, nor do I feel that it is racist to look plainly at the problems of race relations. Race is pseudoscience, and we would be better off without it. But our society is built around it, and until that is no longer true, we must talk about it.

Well, you're a ethnomasochist; which is a strange attribute of WEIRD people. No other population group behaves this way. (The Chinese don't bemoan their "privilege" in China; ditto the Nigerians in Nigeria.) But when you tell someone that what they have is ill-gotten, that they are part of a conscious or unconscious scheme which mistreats others, you are dehumanizing them. You are devaluing them. Their efforts are somehow less than the efforts of others solely due to their membership in the group. This is bigotry and to apply it to a whole population group is racism. It's essentially the same as the Antisemitism in Europe leading up to the second world war. Ya know, those Rothschilds controlled everything and their success due to mistreating the native European population.

 

[Politesse]

"White Privilege" is akin to blood libel. Whenever it is brought up, it is used to demean, degrade, and dehumanize. It casts a group of people as actively or indirectly involved in deceit and the mistreatment of others. All gains by members of this pariah group are assumed ill-gotten. It's simply racism and racist employ it as an excuse for their racism.

Are you serious? I don't feel "dehumanized" by recognizing the obvious, nor do I feel that it is racist to look plainly at the problems of race relations. Race is pseudoscience, and we would be better off without it. But our society is built around it, and until that is no longer true, we must talk about it.

Well, you're a ethnomasochist; which is a strange attribute of WEIRD people. No other population group behaves this way. (The Chinese don't bemoan their "privilege" in China; ditto the Nigerians in Nigeria.) But when you tell someone that what they have is ill-gotten, that they are part of a conscious or unconscious scheme which mistreats others, you are dehumanizing them. You are devaluing them. Their efforts are somehow less than the efforts of others solely due to their membership in the group. This is bigotry and to apply it to a whole population group is racism. It's essentially the same as the Antisemitism in Europe leading up to the second world war. Ya know, those Rothschilds controlled everything and their success due to mistreating the native European population.

Shut your mouth, I am Scottish and proud of it. I just don't have to beat and oppress others to feel that way. And you're also wrong when you claim that we are the only moral people ever to have or critique privilege. There are plenty of Chinese activists, for instance, who see the way their government treats the indigenous peoples of their Northern and Southern frontiers to be wrong, despite such protest being deeply illegal and fervently suppressed.

I can't follow your logic at all as far as one's efforts being worth less than others. The whole idea of privilege is that quite the opposite is generally true. We fight to level this relationship, not reverse it.

 

[Trausti]

Shut your mouth, I am Scottish and proud of it. I just don't have to beat and oppress others to feel that way.

Who is doing that? Who? Whom?

And you're also wrong when you claim that we are the only moral people ever to have or critique privilege. There are plenty of Chinese activists, for instance, who see the way their government treats the indigenous peoples of their Northern and Southern frontiers to be wrong, despite such protest being deeply illegal and fervently suppressed.

Do they apologize for their ancestors' actions?

I can't follow your logic at all as far as one's efforts being worth less than others. The whole idea of privilege is that quite the opposite is generally true. We fight to level this relationship, not reverse it.

Then you're not following. See how "White Privilege" is used (really, any post by Underseer would do). It is a cudgel, an insult. You can aspire for level relationships without partaking in the religion of invisible power structures.

 

[Politesse]

You can aspire for level relationships without partaking in the religion of invisible power structures.

So you concede that these relationships are not, at present, socially level?