Who do you hear when you read?

[another1]

I guess we just have different ways of processing the written word.

Yep bilby written word maybe but you probably do brain pictures and synthesizer sounds the same as anyone else

Nope, no symbols either.

Yep bilby, symbols may be off the table but whale sounds are in there. Aquatic monkeys and unknown sea beasts are communicating to translate human world concepts to human mind processes. Or something like that. Scratch words and symbols. Alright.

It's no more like sound than sight is; and no more like sight than is smell

Well what contrasts light and shadow inside your brainskull? And what references would be needed to differeciate smells? The brain cave has many aromas that are still unknown to us, huh.

Everybody also has the pictures and flashes of emotions or ideas.

Most of mine come from tender moments with Mom. Age three. Maybe earlier but i can't say. Also moments of horror from life. They have a real face. They're like blobs of color and they may my heart go all stingy. I physically feel emotions sometimes. Eh? Feel me? You'd be one of the few I've asked, if not. But then again I do know some odd people out there.

My conscious is an unending train of thought full of voices and images. I do not have the ability to unconsciously transform language (reading) into knowledge, bypassing comprehension through my consciousness.

Affirmative.

Babies are capable of making every sound used in any human language when they are born. as they learn the language they are exposed to, they "forget" how to make the unused sounds.

That seems like a real shame. They deserve to speak any way they like. Childhood reallly breaks people down. Even changes their language. I've heard people make some strange, baby-like sounds when really high on hallucinogens. I thought hm I wonder if they haven't made that sound since babyhood. Maybe they're sacred sounds that are understood only by babies. Here at the 7:00 mark is a decent example of what could be this language.

Language is a product of culture... learning a foreign language involves understanding some aspects of that culture. So, culture impacts thinking, not through language necessarily, but both are products.

I want to learn baby culture. Not the sick kind where grown men wear diapers and get abused by women, or whatever. I mean actual baby culture, which in essence would be free of any culture. Bet learning baby language would help the world, huh. Are they studying baby language? Like, taking it seriously as a viable way to communicate? They should be. Sounds like an awesome world to me. ALL baby sounds.

I do not hear the shapes like square, delta, circle, left-pointing arrow, up arrow, etc.

If you could relate the sounds to something other than shapes? Well, that may be impossible, right? Any color involved? Red circle and green for the ground shape or whatever? It is almost impossible for me to interpret what I see when I think. Nah, it IS impossible, nevermind. I can make out a voice, but the shapes are personal only to me. But then again everyone probably shares the same mind images because we're all babies at some point. And I assume we all use the same means to carry our messages through the void, of course. The satellites, or whatever they may be. Baby language may be beneath the surface of all important things.

Cats can make 100 sounds. Dogs can make ten. Just something I thought I'd throw in there. Don't trust cats.

I can read DESS Display inside a box that indicates the little screen where DESS tells the operator what's going on, without actually hearing DESS DISPLAY the way i do when i read the technical description in text. Rather, it's filed as part of the picture in my head.

No clue. I believe you but I don't know what that stuff is. Doesn't sound like the kind of work that baby noises would do justice. Telepathic baby language maybe, but we're a long ways away from decoding that stuff, huh. But the visual point I understand, yes. And you usually sound like Chris Hardwick when I read your posts. Not an insult, just something odd about me, not you. Or maybe not odd at all, considering most people hear "the voices".

Typically it is the same "voice" I hear when thinking, which I think is an idealized version of my own speaking voice.

Do you hear yourself speaking calmly in your head, with a low pitch and an almost melodic flow? I ask because someone else said that and I started thinking hey maybe I do. Then I checked, and I do hear myself like that sometimes. Hard to know for sure with only my own experiences to go on so thank you. Sometimes I think in song. Lotsa people do apparently. Makes sense.

occasionally when I am extremely tired, but it is a visual issue with letters appearing in reverse order

Aren't some languages arranged backwards? Someone told me that once. Backwards compared to English I mean. Maybe you're only dyslexic in English. Doubt your inner voice is dyslexic in either case.

So, if I am reading Trump's latest Twit, I hear his stupid voice.

His voice gives me chills. When he was calm in the 80's I sorta dug the guy. I even read his book. Nowadays his voice is true psychological torment. And I despise it. And yes I hear him in his tweets. Not a good sound. His people have the same voice when I read what they attempt to say. God what a nightmare.

if reading dialogue from a fictional character who was played by a specific actor at some point, I will often hear that actor's voice, but not always

Yeah, pretty much. Comes and goes. I do associate fictional book characters with the people playing them in movies sometimes. Never noticed that one. Things that make you go hmm.

I had certainly been exposed to Captain Cold in comics before he was a character on TV, but he wasn't enough of a recurring character for my inner voice to take over for his dialogue, apparently.

In my case criminals sometimes sound like Gargamel from The Smurfs. Cartoons have a lot to do with it, huh. Cartoons wipe away the baby language because it is about the same time frame and whatnot. Comic books though, I don't know. I'd like to hear what a criminal sounds like to the minds ear before the mind knows what a criminal is. Only that they're doing bad things.

 

[beero1000]

Meh, I'm not sure. I read the words and I think about how they'd sound, but I don't identify that with hearing as such. Is that what you mean? My 'internal monologue' doesn't really sound like anything, unless I'm actively trying to imagine it as sounding like someone. Otherwise, it's just words in my head - but I don't know if I'm expressing that well enough...

 

[another1]

My previous post makes it clear that I "hear" similarly to you--not quite the same, but close. What I didn't mention in that post was my dyslexia, which was also handled well by a couple of educators when I was a very small child. By grade 3 I was acing standardized reading tests in speed and comprehension--getting more than 100% based on the achievements of the test subjects whose scores standardized the test--the same thing happened with a standardized reading test in Grade 9. I have a PHD in English Literature and am a semi-retired prof of English literature. I still read a lot professionally and for pleasure and I'm good at it.

Dyslexia isn't a disability in my book.

 

[another1]

Meh, I'm not sure. I read the words and I think about how they'd sound, but I don't identify that with hearing as such. Is that what you mean? My 'internal monologue' doesn't really sound like anything, unless I'm actively trying to imagine it as sounding like someone. Otherwise, it's just words in my head - but I don't know if I'm expressing that well enough...

I'm actively trying to hear it, not imagine it. The voices are apparently real. Unless science is lying I'm listening to real voices.

 

[KeepTalking]

I am dyslexic, and I do hear a "voice" when reading. Typically it is the same "voice" I hear when thinking, which I think is an idealized version of my own speaking voice. When I first started attending grade school, in kindergarten, it was discovered that I was dyslexic. Fortunately, I had a great teacher who took the time to work with me, and my dyslexia was never a problem after that. It does surface, however, very occasionally when I am extremely tired, but it is a visual issue with letters appearing in reverse order. I am not sure how it would be expected to affect my inner voice.

My previous post makes it clear that I "hear" similarly to you--not quite the same, but close. What I didn't mention in that post was my dyslexia, which was also handled well by a couple of educators when I was a very small child. By grade 3 I was acing standardized reading tests in speed and comprehension--getting more than 100% based on the achievements of the test subjects whose scores standardized the test--the same thing happened with a standardized reading test in Grade 9. I have a PHD in English Literature and am a semi-retired prof of English literature. I still read a lot professionally and for pleasure and I'm good at it.

In grades 4-6 I was placed in Academically Talented classes, but this was based on IQ scores. In grades 7-8 most of us from AT were placed in another advanced track called TEAM, but I forget what that acronym stood for. In TEAM, we took speed reading courses, and I was one of the top 3 speed readers in the class. One of the other 2 is now an English professor, the other I have lost track of. In college, I first majored in English Lit, before switching to Computer Programming and Analysis. Oh, the wasted credits! I am also an avid reader and writer, with one published short story to my name.

 

[KeepTalking]

Typically it is the same "voice" I hear when thinking, which I think is an idealized version of my own speaking voice.

Do you hear yourself speaking calmly in your head, with a low pitch and an almost melodic flow? I ask because someone else said that and I started thinking hey maybe I do. Then I checked, and I do hear myself like that sometimes. Hard to know for sure with only my own experiences to go on so thank you.

That seems like a fairly good description of how I hear my inner voice.

Sometimes I think in song. Lotsa people do apparently. Makes sense.

Only when I am thinking of song lyrics, or sometimes rhyming poetry.

occasionally when I am extremely tired, but it is a visual issue with letters appearing in reverse order

Aren't some languages arranged backwards? Someone told me that once. Backwards compared to English I mean. Maybe you're only dyslexic in English. Doubt your inner voice is dyslexic in either case.

Most Arabic and Semitic languages read from right to left, but I would imagine that I would have had a problem there as well, since all writing appeared in reverse order for me, including seeing the letters themselves as written backwards.

I had certainly been exposed to Captain Cold in comics before he was a character on TV, but he wasn't enough of a recurring character for my inner voice to take over for his dialogue, apparently.

In my case criminals sometimes sound like Gargamel from The Smurfs. Cartoons have a lot to do with it, huh. Cartoons wipe away the baby language because it is about the same time frame and whatnot. Comic books though, I don't know. I'd like to hear what a criminal sounds like to the minds ear before the mind knows what a criminal is. Only that they're doing bad things.

Sometimes the way a character is drawn in a comic book will cause me to hear a specific voice. One example would be just about any criminal character drawn as a thin man with a handle bar mustache sounds like Snidely Whiplash from the old Hanna Barbera cartoons.

 

[EricB]

Nothing. I see images.

 

[untermensche]

Nothing. I see images.

What if there is somebody speaking?

Do the pictures speak?

 

[untermensche]

Tis a shame you have nothing of any substance to add.

Are you still claiming there are people who can read without being taught?

I never made any such claim, as you are well aware.

Are you still living under the delusion that you can 'win' a debate by simply misrepresenting your opponent?

I pointed out the fact that all people need to be taught to read.

In your ignorance you asked for a citation, even like a three year old you posted a picture.

When the stupidity of your asking for a citation was pointed out your story changed.

Now you seem to think you never asked for a citation.

I am not only dealing with an ignoramus but one with no short term memory.

 

[Kharakov]

Nope. No sound.

I guess we just have different ways of processing the written word.

Your interchange reminds me of the following. Feynman imagines verbally, John Tukey imagines visually. They experienced different limitations due to their different methods of thinking- one could process visual information while imagining something, one could process auditory information while imagining something....

 

[Kharakov]

Meh, I'm not sure. I read the words and I think about how they'd sound, but I don't identify that with hearing as such. Is that what you mean? My 'internal monologue' doesn't really sound like anything, unless I'm actively trying to imagine it as sounding like someone. Otherwise, it's just words in my head - but I don't know if I'm expressing that well enough...

Exercise: count to 10 in your head.

Do you imagine a voice counting? Do you imagine an image of numbers changing? Is it something else (a purely symbolic count, totally divorced from any sensate system)?

 

[untermensche]

Meh, I'm not sure. I read the words and I think about how they'd sound, but I don't identify that with hearing as such. Is that what you mean? My 'internal monologue' doesn't really sound like anything, unless I'm actively trying to imagine it as sounding like someone. Otherwise, it's just words in my head - but I don't know if I'm expressing that well enough...

Exercise: count to 10 in your head.

Do you imagine a voice counting? Do you imagine an image of numbers changing? Is it something else (a purely symbolic count, totally divorced from any sensate system)?

I think the point is you can make it whatever you want, but to make it easy takes practice.

People that hear voices when then read have been practicing that skill for a while. It comes second nature.

 

[Lugubert]

Meh, I'm not sure. I read the words and I think about how they'd sound, but I don't identify that with hearing as such. Is that what you mean? My 'internal monologue' doesn't really sound like anything, unless I'm actively trying to imagine it as sounding like someone. Otherwise, it's just words in my head - but I don't know if I'm expressing that well enough...

At least, expressing quite well how I feel. If I were to hear voices, I would be alarmed. Words don't trigger sounds for me, and if I were to articulate the words myself, it would slow don reading.

If I'm assembling IKEA furniture, I don't use words when trying to find out what goes where in what order; it's more like a silent video.

I have no idea what processes are involved when I think of a piece of music, but I don't experience it as hearing sounds. Probably in some way thinking of one note at a time and then applying the interval to the next one; can't even imagine hearing chords. Maybe more musical people can hear harmonies and different instruments.

 

[another1]

Meh, I'm not sure. I read the words and I think about how they'd sound, but I don't identify that with hearing as such. Is that what you mean? My 'internal monologue' doesn't really sound like anything, unless I'm actively trying to imagine it as sounding like someone. Otherwise, it's just words in my head - but I don't know if I'm expressing that well enough...

Exercise: count to 10 in your head.

Do you imagine a voice counting? Do you imagine an image of numbers changing? Is it something else (a purely symbolic count, totally divorced from any sensate system)?

Both. Saw and heard at the same time. I heard an unfamiliar voice (yet very natural). But I was thinking while doing it. Next time I'm counting something I'll see what happens. I don't I see thoughts on the regular, only intense thoughts that I dwell on. The image probably forms over time in those cases. So yeah, I'm in the auditory class I guess. Yet auditory slips over into visual in some cases because it would have to, wouldn't it.

When I'm counting money someone always interrupts me, so I make sure I have only 20's on me, and I count by fives. 5x5 is a hundred ya know. If I shuffle my hands 5x I know that is a hundred bucks. That way I can keep talking, and let them think they're making me slip up. Pretty sure they do it on purpose. My poor attention span is exploited constantly but I feel that I'm using more of my mind in daydreams or wherever I go than the exploiters in their limited dimension of greed - so pity for them alleviates the rage of being ripped off by them.

Most Arabic and Semitic languages read from right to left, but I would imagine that I would have had a problem there as well, since all writing appeared in reverse order for me, including seeing the letters themselves as written backwards.

Alright then, I don't have any way to connect that stuff to dyslexia. I read the same sentence 5x in a row without realizing it sometimes. That is an attention-span issue. I wonder.. if there existed a universal language of cool looking symbols, no one would be dyslexic, or just air-headed like me when I read.This is something my attention span can't handle. Looks like it relates to the dyslexia/language thing.

People that hear voices when then read have been practicing that skill for a while. It comes second nature

That may be the case. It was a stoned thought a few years ago, and mentioning it to someone stoned got us thinking. Shoom here comes science to say hey you're alright. Turns out it wasn't a grim insanity causing famous voices to creep into the heads of so many. No chemtrails either. A chemical agent or secret radio wave designed to put Kurt Russel's voice into our minds is just too sinister to imagine. No God, no matter how cruel would do such a thing. But yeah, thank you science. This is totally real... so everything is going to be Okay. And so many questions now. How to practice? If this is a developed skill there must be a way to develop it better. What would you suggest

If I'm assembling IKEA furniture, I don't use words when trying to find out what goes where in what order; it's more like a silent video

Oh man I so wish I could assemble something without a low whisper and awkward sighs. Cursing. Even if it goes smoothly I catch myself saying the word "alright" a lot. If others are around I can remain quiet, so no biggie. A silent video would be ideal. I want to be in the visual club but seems like I'm doomed to the audio department because I can't see the images willy-nilly unless I'm concentrating on deep emotions.

I have no idea what processes are involved when I think of a piece of music, but I don't experience it as hearing sounds. Probably in some way thinking of one note at a time and then applying the interval to the next one; can't even imagine hearing chords. Maybe more musical people can hear harmonies and different instruments.

Guitar channels I watch on You Tube have plenty of guitarists seeing the notes as colors and shapes in their heads. And they SHRED. Best guitarists around. Will look for a link with a guitarist using color and shapes in his mind to play better than Malmsteen and Satriani combined. This one guy makes guitars out of unlikely objects like toold from his shed. You may have heard of the famous "shovel guitar". Made him a You Tube God. A shovel.

 

[EricB]

Nothing. I see images.

What if there is somebody speaking?

Do the pictures speak?

Images as in three dimensional. And sometimes, but not often.

 

[Malintent]

reading is not a sense. all the other things you list are. Reading is the comprehension of symbols into ideas. the ideas do not lift magically off of the page, through your eyes, and into your brain as plot lines.

I am not convinced that it is fundamentally different from any other sense. There's no magic involved, but there's no voices either.

I am not accusing you of failing to understand yourself, by the way.. not that you accused me of that either...
however, it is totally different than every other sense in a very important (to this conversation) way. All of the senses collect "raw data".. photons for sight, kinesthetic pressure for touch, sound wave frequency and direction for hearing... etc.. the analysis of that "raw data" occurs in the brain and is translated to useful knowledge. "1.2 million photons in the frequency range of however many Hz is not knowledge. that there is a "faint blue light" is knowledge.

when reading, that there are spaces of darker color than of lighter color on a page is not knowledge.. not useful knowledge, at least. that they are letters, that make up words, that when strung together have meaning, is all in your head, so to speak. "reading" is as much a "sense" as knowing it is daytime because your vision detects the sun over the horizon... but we don't call seeing the sun as a "sense of time" or any other such thing.

Regarding your ability to read upside down.. I have heard of that, mostly from teachers or others that have routinely had to read upside down (as when tutoring a student with content in front of them, while sitting across from them). I have no such experience and all of the letters that have different meanings when either backwards or upside down are perceived by me to be their 'inverted version", even when consciously trying to compensate... letters like "b" versus "d" and "m" versus "w" demand I take them at their absolute orientations.

 

[Kharakov]

I think the point is you can make it whatever you want, but to make it easy takes practice.

People that hear voices when then read have been practicing that skill for a while. It comes second nature.

Sort of like people who can imagine songs when they look at sheet music... I can't (I am partially note illiterate).

I can imagine a middle C, however I never made the step from imagining finger positions, etc. to imagining the sounds that instruments made when I read music. This means I clunk through songs, because I don't know what I'm aiming for- I'm just trying to duplicate the mechanical parts of playing the instrument, rather than replicate the music itself. I've got a lot of learning to do before I become fluent.


Now I imagine if I was entirely focused on the usage of instruments rather than the musical tones they produced, and that the physical usage of the instruments also had an innate beauty, I might visualize those patterns from the notes instead of imagining the sounds of the notes. In other words, I might find something pleasing in the patterns of interaction, and ignore the sound, except for the beats, and other interactions.

Then I'd call a dog on the smellophone.

 

[horhangi]

The voice I hear when I read, when I hear one is my own, as I hear myself when I speak. However, when I am reading fast, I do not hear a voice. When I was in college I took a speed reading class and the one thing they taught was to turn off what is in most people the automatic voice you hear in your brain as you read. When I am reading really fast, I hear no voice. When I am reading more slowly, the voice comes back.
For what it's worth, I have also noticed that people I know who read faster, also tend to speak faster.

 

[untermensche]

I think the point is you can make it whatever you want, but to make it easy takes practice.

People that hear voices when then read have been practicing that skill for a while. It comes second nature.

Sort of like people who can imagine songs when they look at sheet music... I can't (I am partially note illiterate).

I can imagine a middle C, however I never made the step from imagining finger positions, etc. to imagining the sounds that instruments made when I read music. This means I clunk through songs, because I don't know what I'm aiming for- I'm just trying to duplicate the mechanical parts of playing the instrument, rather than replicate the music itself. I've got a lot of learning to do before I become fluent.


Now I imagine if I was entirely focused on the usage of instruments rather than the musical tones they produced, and that the physical usage of the instruments also had an innate beauty, I might visualize those patterns from the notes instead of imagining the sounds of the notes. In other words, I might find something pleasing in the patterns of interaction, and ignore the sound, except for the beats, and other interactions.

Then I'd call a dog on the smellophone.

 

[Kharakov]

That said, when I read, the voice in my head sounds really fucking intelligent. And evil. Can't forget evil.

That guy reminds me of Rick Moranis in Ghostbusters, combined with Dark Helmet.