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who is a muslim?

 
 
 
Syed said:
Keith&Co. said:
But when you say, for example, what you believe atheism is, we atheists know enough about it to know you don't know shit about what you're talking about.
Why would anyone accept your understanding of the Koran as being more worth a shit than your understanding of history, atheism, Catholicism, free market, spelling, grammar, or the basic religious beliefs of rocks?
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i dont care you believe me or not
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I didn't ask if you cared.
I pointed out that in so many things that you say which we can check, you're wrong.
WHY would we care about your opinions which cannot be verified?
WHAT would be the basis of thinking, 'Okay, THIS time Syed knows what he's talking about.'
 
Keith&Co. said:
Syed said:
i dont care you believe me or not
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I didn't ask if you cared.
I pointed out that in so many things that you say which we can check, you're wrong.
WHY would we care about your opinions which cannot be verified?
WHAT would be the basis of thinking, 'Okay, THIS time Syed knows what he's talking about.'
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i just expressed what i believe just to entertain you
 
Syed said:
Keith&Co. said:
I didn't ask if you cared.
I pointed out that in so many things that you say which we can check, you're wrong.
WHY would we care about your opinions which cannot be verified?
WHAT would be the basis of thinking, 'Okay, THIS time Syed knows what he's talking about.'
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i just expressed what i believe just to entertain you
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Still not an answer to the question.
But that's not an actual disappointment, knowing your posting history, Syed.
 
Syed said:
fast said:
You could have acted differently.
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what could i have done differently?
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You could have made the good moral choices that would have God hold you in His favor. He may have created all there is, but a movie to play out, He did not make. We have the free will to make the choices we do. There was no destined set of events to play out in chain-like fashion. You still have the option to make decisions that are a function of your will. You have it in your power to make the hard choices in life. It's not an illusion. Yes, He knows, and knows well just what decisions you will make, but it's you that is control. You won't make the decisions you will because of what He knows. You are in full control. He just so happens to already know what your decisions will be. Don't get it twisted by thinking your decisions is a matter of fate.
 
Can you theists (Syed and fast) make a decision to at least say “look at this pattern in nature” to illustrate some basis in anything at all in what you’re saying? The strings of assertions might win God’s favor but if so then God favors some very haughty people.
 
abaddon said:
Can you theists (Syed and fast) make a decision to at least say “look at this pattern in nature” to illustrate some basis in anything at all in what you’re saying? The strings of assertions might win God’s favor but if so then God favors some very haughty people.
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Tide goes in, tide goes out...
 
fast said:
You can know something, and you can know that you know something. I know, for instance, that the cat is on the mat. I don't need to know the necessary conditions of knowledge to know something. All that is required is that the conditions are met, whether I know they are or not. If I know the conditions of knowledge and comprehend that they are met, then not only do I know something but know that I know something as well.
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"Comprehend"? Is that some magical way to tell that something is true? There is no such way. And by your usage of "know" we can never know that we know in empirical matters.
 
Syed said:
sdelsolray said:
Houston...We have a breakthrough! Syed's sky fairy is not omniscient!
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god knows every thing, god gave human freewill to chose good and bad, so god cant say what he will choose
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So, Syed, what particular sect do you belong to? Because Sunni orthodoxy is different. Allah knows everything before the fact, including what you will imagine was your own will.

E.g. from "What must be known about Islam" by Muhammad bin Ali al-Arfaj (http://www.enjoyislam.com/books/islamic_books/what-must-be-known-about-islam.pdf):
Cited work said:
... Belief in Al-Qadar (Divine Preordainment) ... This means that the Muslim believes that, before Allah created the creation, He had knowledge of all that was to occur; he believes that whatever Allah wills happens and that Allah has complete power; and he believes that only that which Allah wills takes place in the universe; what He wills happens, what he doesn't will, doesn't happen. ... He is satisfied and calm because he knows that Allah decreed his provision, his life span, and all of the matters that he wants and achieves.
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I'm not going to try and find now the relevant stuff about how despite all this Sunni orthodoxy affirms human free will, acknowledges that it seems to contradict Al-Qadar but holds that the contradiction is only apparent, although only Allah knows how to resolve it. IOW it's a mystery of faith, although scholars see it prudent not to mention it too much in front of the flock, just as Catholic theologians have to be pressured to admit that the Catholic Church teaches predestination alongside free will, declaring the obviously non-existent reconciliation idea to be a mystery of faith.
 
Can it be that, as well as objects and beings of various types being allegedly muslim, that events are muslim too?

Then also perhaps non-events (things that don't happen) are muslim too.

So Islam didn't happen? Therefore it never existed? Hmm.

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Nearly forgot this. Bananas are Muslims. Therefore some muslims are bananas.

Sounds reasonable to me.
 
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abaddon said:
Can you theists (Syed and fast) make a decision to at least say “look at this pattern in nature” to illustrate some basis in anything at all in what you’re saying? The strings of assertions might win God’s favor but if so then God favors some very haughty people.
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Abaddon, I have no agenda here. My main focus has simply been to demonstrate with logic and reason that omniscience and freewill are compatible.
 
God knew you were going to say that and you couldn't have said anything different.
 
Juma said:
fast said:
You can know something, and you can know that you know something. I know, for instance, that the cat is on the mat. I don't need to know the necessary conditions of knowledge to know something. All that is required is that the conditions are met, whether I know they are or not. If I know the conditions of knowledge and comprehend that they are met, then not only do I know something but know that I know something as well.
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"Comprehend"? Is that some magical way to tell that something is true? There is no such way. And by your usage of "know" we can never know that we know in empirical matters.
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First of all, the discussion regarding the phrase, "know that you know," has been done to death in the philosophy forum. You can verify that in the archives.

Secondly, the phrase, "know that you know," especially when used by amateur philosophers, is very often a tell-tail sign that knowledge is being confused with a particular kind of certainty. There is one sense of "certainty" that has to do with confidence. For instance, if a theist says that he's certain that God exists, that's an expression communicating confidence. He may as well of said that he's confident (or very confident) that God exists. This is not too terribly dissimilar to what is being thought when a theist says that he knows that God exists. It is not just the expression of a strong belief but one expressed with a high degree of confidence.

Either way, this particular kind of (or sense of) confidence is not (not, I say) the kind of certainty that is often confused with knowledge. I bring it up because people become confused about what exactly is being discussed when contrasting knowledge (actual knowledge, not some fixated version often latched onto by those that have spent minimal time with the subject) with the kind of confidence they have identified, sometimes referred to as Cartesian certainty.

When we think we know something, often times, we actually do. Granted, there are many times we think we know something but don't in fact know what we think we do. Take for instance my name. I know what my name is. I just used the word, "know," and I'm a fluent speaker of my language, but regardless, the question bubbling to the surface is if I'm right. In other words, do I in fact know my name?

I can list a slew of reasons for why I think I'm right that will directly go to support my contention that I do indeed know my name, and can you guess what the second tell-tail sign is that people are using that shows they are elevating their use of the word, "know/knowledge" to "certainty?" It's, "yeah, but do you REALLY know?"

The true underlying great confusion actually at its heart and that holds people in the grip of their theory lies in not having a good working understanding of the differences and implications between actuality and possibility. It blows their minds that I can on the one hand know my name and on the other hand there be a possibility of mistake.
 
fast said:
Tom Sawyer said:
God knew you were going to say that and you couldn't have said anything different.
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I could have said something different. What was stopping me?
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If there are specific reasons for everything you say and do, then God knows those reasons. And from the beginning of time, God knew those reasons and what you would say and do. You couldn't do anything else.
If God didn't know the reasons (or if there are no specific reasons for your behavior*) then ultimately your choices and behavior are a mystery even to God.




*If such a thing is even possible
 
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