Why are so-called "progressives" and "liberals" so deferential to religious nonsense by Indians?

[Derec]

If existing pipelines could meet the demand, they'd already be meeting it.

But can you upgrade existing pipelines/routes?

That's what DAPL is. It is using the route of an existing gas pipeline. A gas pipeline which the local Indians did not consider to be crossing "sacred land" and "burial grounds" back in the 80s. Go figure!

The DAPL runs parallel to an already existing pipeline built back in 1982 called the Northern Border Pipeline, which already runs through the areas currently being disputed by Standing Rock.
The Northern Border line never received any protests or complaints from demonstrators associated with Standing Rock, according to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s Environmental Impact Statement for the pipeline.

The Protests Over The Dakota Access Pipeline Explained
The whole #nodapl movement is a sham that has attracted many useful idiots. Not only those freezing their asses off at the camps, but also those who are donating to numerous GoFundMe pages associated with the protests. But you know what they say about fools and their money ...

 

[Elixir]

But can you upgrade existing pipelines/routes?

That's what DAPL is. It is using the route of an existing gas pipeline. A gas pipeline which the local Indians did not consider to be crossing "sacred land" and "burial grounds" back in the 80s. Go figure!

The DAPL runs parallel to an already existing pipeline built back in 1982 called the Northern Border Pipeline, which already runs through the areas currently being disputed by Standing Rock.
The Northern Border line never received any protests or complaints from demonstrators associated with Standing Rock, according to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s Environmental Impact Statement for the pipeline.

The Protests Over The Dakota Access Pipeline Explained
The whole #nodapl movement is a sham that has attracted many useful idiots. Not only those freezing their asses off at the camps, but also those who are donating to numerous GoFundMe pages associated with the protests. But you know what they say about fools and their money ...

Typical alt-reality BS.
"what’s notable about the Northern Border pipeline is that it parallels the site where the Dakota Access Pipeline will cross the Missouri River at Lake Oahe, precisely the same spot where the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe is now attempting to “protect the water.”"

"Parallels" is not "the existing route" - that is a flat out lie. But not the point at all. I suggest the following equivalence test -

* Derec and I will each be required to drink 12 oz of water.
* The 12 oz that I drink will have been exposed to a liter natural gas, such as is in the Northern Border Pipeline, bubbled through it.
* The 12 oz that Derec drinks will have had 1 liter of the crude oil that the DAPL is designed to carry bubbled up through it.

I think the results will not only expose posts such as Derec's as the weasel-worded right wing nonsense that it is, but will have the added benefit of shutting him up for a while - maybe even permanently.

 

[laughing dog]

But you know what they say about fools and their money ...

That they spend it on prostitutes?

 

[JonA]

That's what DAPL is. It is using the route of an existing gas pipeline. A gas pipeline which the local Indians did not consider to be crossing "sacred land" and "burial grounds" back in the 80s. Go figure!

The DAPL runs parallel to an already existing pipeline built back in 1982 called the Northern Border Pipeline, which already runs through the areas currently being disputed by Standing Rock.
The Northern Border line never received any protests or complaints from demonstrators associated with Standing Rock, according to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s Environmental Impact Statement for the pipeline.

The Protests Over The Dakota Access Pipeline Explained
The whole #nodapl movement is a sham that has attracted many useful idiots. Not only those freezing their asses off at the camps, but also those who are donating to numerous GoFundMe pages associated with the protests. But you know what they say about fools and their money ...

Typical alt-reality BS.
"what’s notable about the Northern Border pipeline is that it parallels the site where the Dakota Access Pipeline will cross the Missouri River at Lake Oahe, precisely the same spot where the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe is now attempting to “protect the water.”"

"Parallels" is not "the existing route" - that is a flat out lie. But not the point at all. I suggest the following equivalence test -

* Derec and I will each be required to drink 12 oz of water.
* The 12 oz that I drink will have been exposed to a liter natural gas, such as is in the Northern Border Pipeline, bubbled through it.
* The 12 oz that Derec drinks will have had 1 liter of the crude oil that the DAPL is designed to carry bubbled up through it.

I think the results will not only expose posts such as Derec's as the weasel-worded right wing nonsense that it is, but will have the added benefit of shutting him up for a while - maybe even permanently.

Then what is your proposal?

 

[Elixir]

That's what DAPL is. It is using the route of an existing gas pipeline. A gas pipeline which the local Indians did not consider to be crossing "sacred land" and "burial grounds" back in the 80s. Go figure!

The DAPL runs parallel to an already existing pipeline built back in 1982 called the Northern Border Pipeline, which already runs through the areas currently being disputed by Standing Rock.
The Northern Border line never received any protests or complaints from demonstrators associated with Standing Rock, according to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s Environmental Impact Statement for the pipeline.

The Protests Over The Dakota Access Pipeline Explained
The whole #nodapl movement is a sham that has attracted many useful idiots. Not only those freezing their asses off at the camps, but also those who are donating to numerous GoFundMe pages associated with the protests. But you know what they say about fools and their money ...

Typical alt-reality BS.
"what’s notable about the Northern Border pipeline is that it parallels the site where the Dakota Access Pipeline will cross the Missouri River at Lake Oahe, precisely the same spot where the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe is now attempting to “protect the water.”"

"Parallels" is not "the existing route" - that is a flat out lie. But not the point at all. I suggest the following equivalence test -

* Derec and I will each be required to drink 12 oz of water.
* The 12 oz that I drink will have been exposed to a liter natural gas, such as is in the Northern Border Pipeline, bubbled through it.
* The 12 oz that Derec drinks will have had 1 liter of the crude oil that the DAPL is designed to carry bubbled up through it.

I think the results will not only expose posts such as Derec's as the weasel-worded right wing nonsense that it is, but will have the added benefit of shutting him up for a while - maybe even permanently.

Then what is your proposal?

I propose screwing Energy Transfer Partners. They have pursued illegal means to illegal ends and should have to deal with the consequences.

 

[JonA]

If existing pipelines could meet the demand, they'd already be meeting it.

But can you upgrade existing pipelines/routes?

If the current lines could carry the load, they'd be carrying it.

There are two ways to update a pipeline/route to move more volume: a) dig up the current pipes and lay bigger ones, or b) lay new pipe next to the current pipes.

So which option do you like and which lines do you want to upgrade?

 

[Trausti]

That's what DAPL is. It is using the route of an existing gas pipeline. A gas pipeline which the local Indians did not consider to be crossing "sacred land" and "burial grounds" back in the 80s. Go figure!

The DAPL runs parallel to an already existing pipeline built back in 1982 called the Northern Border Pipeline, which already runs through the areas currently being disputed by Standing Rock.
The Northern Border line never received any protests or complaints from demonstrators associated with Standing Rock, according to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s Environmental Impact Statement for the pipeline.

The Protests Over The Dakota Access Pipeline Explained
The whole #nodapl movement is a sham that has attracted many useful idiots. Not only those freezing their asses off at the camps, but also those who are donating to numerous GoFundMe pages associated with the protests. But you know what they say about fools and their money ...

Typical alt-reality BS.
"what’s notable about the Northern Border pipeline is that it parallels the site where the Dakota Access Pipeline will cross the Missouri River at Lake Oahe, precisely the same spot where the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe is now attempting to “protect the water.”"

"Parallels" is not "the existing route" - that is a flat out lie. But not the point at all. I suggest the following equivalence test -

* Derec and I will each be required to drink 12 oz of water.
* The 12 oz that I drink will have been exposed to a liter natural gas, such as is in the Northern Border Pipeline, bubbled through it.
* The 12 oz that Derec drinks will have had 1 liter of the crude oil that the DAPL is designed to carry bubbled up through it.

I think the results will not only expose posts such as Derec's as the weasel-worded right wing nonsense that it is, but will have the added benefit of shutting him up for a while - maybe even permanently.

Then what is your proposal?

I propose screwing Energy Transfer Partners. They have pursued illegal means to illegal ends and should have to deal with the consequences.

Hey! Why don't you stop using all petroleum based products! That'd screw the bastards.

 

[JonA]

That's what DAPL is. It is using the route of an existing gas pipeline. A gas pipeline which the local Indians did not consider to be crossing "sacred land" and "burial grounds" back in the 80s. Go figure!

The DAPL runs parallel to an already existing pipeline built back in 1982 called the Northern Border Pipeline, which already runs through the areas currently being disputed by Standing Rock.
The Northern Border line never received any protests or complaints from demonstrators associated with Standing Rock, according to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s Environmental Impact Statement for the pipeline.

The Protests Over The Dakota Access Pipeline Explained
The whole #nodapl movement is a sham that has attracted many useful idiots. Not only those freezing their asses off at the camps, but also those who are donating to numerous GoFundMe pages associated with the protests. But you know what they say about fools and their money ...

Typical alt-reality BS.
"what’s notable about the Northern Border pipeline is that it parallels the site where the Dakota Access Pipeline will cross the Missouri River at Lake Oahe, precisely the same spot where the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe is now attempting to “protect the water.”"

"Parallels" is not "the existing route" - that is a flat out lie. But not the point at all. I suggest the following equivalence test -

* Derec and I will each be required to drink 12 oz of water.
* The 12 oz that I drink will have been exposed to a liter natural gas, such as is in the Northern Border Pipeline, bubbled through it.
* The 12 oz that Derec drinks will have had 1 liter of the crude oil that the DAPL is designed to carry bubbled up through it.

I think the results will not only expose posts such as Derec's as the weasel-worded right wing nonsense that it is, but will have the added benefit of shutting him up for a while - maybe even permanently.

Then what is your proposal?

I propose screwing Energy Transfer Partners. They have pursued illegal means to illegal ends and should have to deal with the consequences.

That's not a proposal. That's just a gripe.

So what do you actually propose?

Be specific.

 

[dismal]

* Derec and I will each be required to drink 12 oz of water.
* The 12 oz that I drink will have been exposed to a liter natural gas, such as is in the Northern Border Pipeline, bubbled through it.
* The 12 oz that Derec drinks will have had 1 liter of the crude oil that the DAPL is designed to carry bubbled up through it.

Science!

Surely there can be no better way to test the relative merits of having a buried steel pressure tested pipe containing various hydrocarbons nearby than drinking water through which said hydrocarbons have been bubbled.

 

[Elixir]

* Derec and I will each be required to drink 12 oz of water.
* The 12 oz that I drink will have been exposed to a liter natural gas, such as is in the Northern Border Pipeline, bubbled through it.
* The 12 oz that Derec drinks will have had 1 liter of the crude oil that the DAPL is designed to carry bubbled up through it.

Science!

Surely there can be no better way to test the relative merits of having a buried steel pressure tested pipe containing various hydrocarbons nearby than drinking water through which said hydrocarbons have been bubbled.

Yeah, but that would defeat the tertiary purpose!

 

[Derec]

Surely there can be no better way to test the relative merits of having a buried steel pressure tested pipe containing various hydrocarbons nearby than drinking water through which said hydrocarbons have been bubbled.

And we should ban transport and industrial use of any chemical that it is not safe to drink.

 

[dismal]

Science!

Surely there can be no better way to test the relative merits of having a buried steel pressure tested pipe containing various hydrocarbons nearby than drinking water through which said hydrocarbons have been bubbled.

Yeah, but that would defeat the tertiary purpose!

Oh if we're going for tertiary purpose, then how about this:

- You and Derec will each be required to drink a glass of water while smoking a cigarette in a small valley containing a breached underground steel pipeline
- The valley Derec drinks in will contain a breached oil pipeline
- The valley you drink in will contain a breached gas pipeline

 

[Arctish]

If existing pipelines could meet the demand, they'd already be meeting it.

They are.

You haven't seen any lines of people waiting for their ration of fuel at the gas stations, have you? Or the heating oil distribution centers? Supply is meeting demand.

 

[JonA]

If existing pipelines could meet the demand, they'd already be meeting it.

They are.

You haven't seen any lines of people waiting for their ration of fuel at the gas stations, have you? Or the heating oil distribution centers? Supply is meeting demand.

We aren't talking about supply of oil meeting demand; we're talking about supply of pipelines meeting the demand for transporting the oil.

Right now they cannot meet that demand and the slack is being picked up by rail cars.

 

[skepticalbip]

They are.

You haven't seen any lines of people waiting for their ration of fuel at the gas stations, have you? Or the heating oil distribution centers? Supply is meeting demand.

We aren't talking about supply of oil meeting demand; we're talking about supply of pipelines meeting the demand for transporting the oil.

Right now they cannot meet that demand and the slack is being picked up by rail cars.

Apparently the thinking is that we shouldn't worry about planning to satisfy demand until people are freezing in the northern states because there isn't enough heating fuel to supply everyone and people can't get to work because there is no gas for their autos.

 

[Arctish]

We aren't talking about supply of oil meeting demand; we're talking about supply of pipelines meeting the demand for transporting the oil.

Right now they cannot meet that demand and the slack is being picked up by rail cars.

Apparently the thinking is that we shouldn't worry about planning to satisfy demand until people are freezing in the northern states because there isn't enough heating fuel to supply everyone and people can't get to work because there is no gas for their autos.

I think if you re-read the thread you'll find that the thinking is we should worry about exposing our supply of clean drinking water to contamination, that all pipelines leak and anyone who says the DAPL won't is either an idiot or a liar, and that it's quite obvious we need to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels so it makes little sense build a new pipeline with all the attendant risks instead of utilizing and perhaps upgrading the existing system.

 

[JonA]

The claim was made that we can use existing pipeline infrastructure to transport the oil that would otherwise go through DAPL.

Snark all you want. That claim is false.

 

[Arctish]

The claim was made that we can use existing pipeline infrastructure to transport the oil that would otherwise go through DAPL.

Snark all you want. That claim is false.

It's not false. We can use existing pipeline infrastructure to transport that oil, just as we use it now to handle the current oil glut. And we can use existing pipeline corridors to replace aging pipelines with new, larger capacity ones. We don't have to expose more of our acreage and aquifers to certain contamination. And we don't have to put oil above water.

 

[Toni]

They are.

You haven't seen any lines of people waiting for their ration of fuel at the gas stations, have you? Or the heating oil distribution centers? Supply is meeting demand.

We aren't talking about supply of oil meeting demand; we're talking about supply of pipelines meeting the demand for transporting the oil.

Right now they cannot meet that demand and the slack is being picked up by rail cars.

I'm guessing that you live nearer to railroad tracks than to an oil pipeline. Most people do.

I am also guessing that you haven't noticed gas prices lately or are not familiar with the relationship between supply and demand and price.

 

[dismal]

Apparently the thinking is that we shouldn't worry about planning to satisfy demand until people are freezing in the northern states because there isn't enough heating fuel to supply everyone and people can't get to work because there is no gas for their autos.

I think if you re-read the thread you'll find that the thinking is we should worry about exposing our supply of clean drinking water to contamination, that all pipelines leak and anyone who says the DAPL won't is either an idiot or a liar, and that it's quite obvious we need to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels so it makes little sense build a new pipeline with all the attendant risks instead of utilizing and perhaps upgrading the existing system.

What sort of idiot would argue a single oil pipeline is dangerous to our supply of drinking water when there are hundreds of oil pipelines already?