Why do House Repubs Oppose Aid to Ukraine?

[laughing dog]

What an odd thread.

I am unable to speak for the Republicans in the House. But I can offer a glimmer of some insight.

First a quick disclaimer: I loathe Putin. Hope he dies. I wish a Russian General would assassinate that bastard for the good of all the world.

Second disclaimer: I don’t speak for all conservatives, either. In fact, I have (at another Board) had disagreements with some of them. My thinking is conflicted on this issue and a bit in flux, but I still maintain that Putin initiated the conflict and waged war against the civilian population of Ukraine. And he should be denied any shred of reward.

That said: many Republicans see Biden as utterly reckless. He isn’t merely a demented old man controlled by others. (But he is that, too.) His willingness to spend American money and materiel for the benefit of Ukraine also puts America on a flight path towards introducing our troops over there. The general objection is not merely “isolationism.” Instead, as I understand it, the objection is that we have a national obligation to only assist other nations when it also serves our national interest.

If I have sussed out that much correctly, so far, then my guess is that many conservatives fail to see how or why what Russia does to Ukraine is much of our concern.

Thank you for your concise and convincing analysis that conservatives are more demented and easily led by others than Mr Biden. There is no rational reason to think aid to Ukraine is a slippery slope to US troops there.

 

[TomC]

Thank you for your concise and convincing analysis that conservatives are more demented and easily led by others than Mr Biden. There is no rational reason to think aid to Ukraine is a slippery slope to US troops there.

Quite the contrary.

Give the Ukrainian military the tools necessary to do the job and we won't need to send troops.
Keep fucking around and it might become necessary to prevent nuclear war.
Tom

 

[Patooka]

His willingness to spend American money and materiel for the benefit of Ukraine also puts America on a flight path towards introducing our troops over there.

The "putting US troops into Ukraine" bullshit has already been debunked so I'll address the "spending American money" lie.

Firstly, Sleepy Joe isn't walking to the nearest ATM, withdrawing bags of cash and shipping them off to Ukraine. What he is doing is giving decades old equipment that has been sitting in the desert since last century and munitions that would have been destroyed anyways because the chemicals in bullets and rockets do have a use by date. The "spending" involved writing off equipment that sometimes was paid for when Carter was President.

Ten Myths about US Aid to Ukraine

View PDF Ukraine is in a national struggle that will determine its geopolitical future: the country will either be a firm member of the Euro-Atlantic community or become a Russian colony. The outcome of this struggle will have long-term implications for America’s global interests, the future of...

www.hudson.org

 

[Elixir]

His willingness to spend American money and materiel for the benefit of Ukraine also puts America on a flight path towards introducing our troops over there.

The "putting US troops into Ukraine" bullshit has already been debunked so I'll address the "spending American money" lie.

Firstly, Sleepy Joe isn't walking to the nearest ATM, withdrawing bags of cash and shipping them off to Ukraine. What he is doing is giving decades old equipment that has been sitting in the desert since last century and munitions that would have been destroyed anyways because the chemicals in bullets and rockets do have a use by date. The "spending" involved writing off equipment that sometimes was paid for when Carter was President.

Ten Myths about US Aid to Ukraine

View PDF Ukraine is in a national struggle that will determine its geopolitical future: the country will either be a firm member of the Euro-Atlantic community or become a Russian colony. The outcome of this struggle will have long-term implications for America’s global interests, the future of...

www.hudson.org

Really good link.

 

[DeplorableInfidel]

His willingness to spend American money and materiel for the benefit of Ukraine also puts America on a flight path towards introducing our troops over there.
The "putting US troops into Ukraine" bullshit has already been debunked

It’s not bullshit. And it has never been “debunked.” Other than that, cool story, brah.

so I'll address the "spending American money" lie.

Again. Not a lie. You’re free to disagree. But your erroneous disagreement doesn’t make my correct assertion a “lie.”

Firstly, Sleepy Joe isn't walking to the nearest ATM, withdrawing bags of cash and shipping them off to Ukraine.

Yeah. in fact, he kind of has been doing very much that.

What he is doing is giving decades old equipment that has been sitting in the desert since last century and munitions that would have been destroyed anyways because the chemicals in bullets and rockets do have a use by date.

That may be partly what he’s been doing. But I cannot help but notice that you fail to support your claims. And he sure has sent lots of actual money to Ukraine.

The "spending" involved writing off equipment that sometimes was paid for when Carter was President.

Again: that may have a sliver of truth to it. But you utterly fail to support you claim.

Ten Myths about US Aid to Ukraine

View PDF Ukraine is in a national struggle that will determine its geopolitical future: the country will either be a firm member of the Euro-Atlantic community or become a Russian colony. The outcome of this struggle will have long-term implications for America’s global interests, the future of...

www.hudson.org

Your own link tells a different story:

So far this year, the US Congress has voted on three different supplementals for Ukraine: $13.6 billion in March, $40.1 billion in May, and $12.4 billion in September

Id.

You would be better served by losing your antagonistic rhetoric. It looks like you may have some things worth saying, but with your poor form of communicating, you remain unlikely to garner much attention.

 

[Politesse]

366 arrested today, just for paying their respects to Navalny. Of all the autocracies to sell out their nation to, I still can't quite believe that the Republicans chose Russia. All those decades they were trying to convince us that random Hollywood stars, kid show puppets, and noted social scientists were the vanguard of some scheme to convert everyone to the USSR, and it turns out it was their own hypocritical, warhawk asses that were two steps toward the door the whole time. Some patriots.

 

[barbos]

First a quick disclaimer: I loathe Putin. Hope he dies. I wish a Russian General would assassinate that bastard for the good of all the world.

Next in line is probably Medvedev. And he has way less patience with Western scum. Putin is annoyingly patient with the west.

 

[Patooka]

It’s not bullshit. And it has never been “debunked.” Other than that, cool story, brah.

It has been debunked with the simple fact there has been no deployments into Ukraine or even any mobilisation of forces for deployment. There is a whole bunch of steps that need to be completed before boots hit the ground and the US military has done zero of them.

Again. Not a lie. You’re free to disagree. But your erroneous disagreement doesn’t make my correct assertion a “lie.”

Very much a lie. The talking point is a deliberate deception promoting the myth that your taxpayer dollars are going directly into Zelensky's pocket. Promoting a misleading narrative is the very definition of a lie.

That may be partly what he’s been doing. But I cannot help but notice that you fail to support your claims. And he sure has sent lots of actual money to Ukraine. (emphasis mine)

You remember when you said I didn't support my claims? Guess what I'm going to say to you now with regards to your allegations.

Again: that may have a sliver of truth to it. But you utterly fail to support you claim.

Nope. Whole truth. None of the equipment the US has given has been brand new, most of it is decades old, And guess which country has been the greatest recipient of aid money that has been earmarked to Ukrainian aid? I'll give you a hint;

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/29/ukraine-military-aid-american-economy-boost/

 

[Harry Bosch]

First a quick disclaimer: I loathe Putin. Hope he dies. I wish a Russian General would assassinate that bastard for the good of all the world.

Next in line is probably Medvedev. And he has way less patience with Western scum. Putin is annoyingly patient with the west.

It's amazing how aggressive and pro-war older guys become when they are too old to join the military.

 

[barbos]

First a quick disclaimer: I loathe Putin. Hope he dies. I wish a Russian General would assassinate that bastard for the good of all the world.

Next in line is probably Medvedev. And he has way less patience with Western scum. Putin is annoyingly patient with the west.

It's amazing how aggressive and pro-war older guys become when they are too old to join the military.

Yes, Biden and his buddies are pretty agressive.

 

[DeplorableInfidel]

What an odd thread.

I am unable to speak for the Republicans in the House. But I can offer a glimmer of some insight.

First a quick disclaimer: I loathe Putin. Hope he dies. I wish a Russian General would assassinate that bastard for the good of all the world.

Second disclaimer: I don’t speak for all conservatives, either. In fact, I have (at another Board) had disagreements with some of them. My thinking is conflicted on this issue and a bit in flux, but I still maintain that Putin initiated the conflict and waged war against the civilian population of Ukraine. And he should be denied any shred of reward.

That said: many Republicans see Biden as utterly reckless. He isn’t merely a demented old man controlled by others. (But he is that, too.) His willingness to spend American money and materiel for the benefit of Ukraine also puts America on a flight path towards introducing our troops over there. The general objection is not merely “isolationism.” Instead, as I understand it, the objection is that we have a national obligation to only assist other nations when it also serves our national interest.

If I have sussed out that much correctly, so far, then my guess is that many conservatives fail to see how or why what Russia does to Ukraine is much of our concern.

Thank you for your concise and convincing analysis that conservatives are more demented and easily led by others than Mr Biden. There is no rational reason to think aid to Ukraine is a slippery slope to US troops there.

What an absurd thing for you to have said.

To the extent that some conservatives are concerned about how me act often leads to another one, that observation is absolutely spot on. If you are among those who don’t worry about how irresponsible Biden is, then you haven’t been paying attention to his record. Not just the fact that he can’t keep a thought in his feeble head which is a worrying sign in and of itself. But his actions and his inactions. They prove that he is utterly inept.

When it comes to decisions which involve us in other nations’ wars, the problems with Biden’s defective brain become more concerning. You try to dismiss it as a mere “slippery slope” claim. But that’s only because you refuse to contemplate the reactions of those other nations to our behavior.

 

[Harry Bosch]

What an odd thread.

I am unable to speak for the Republicans in the House. But I can offer a glimmer of some insight.

First a quick disclaimer: I loathe Putin. Hope he dies. I wish a Russian General would assassinate that bastard for the good of all the world.

Second disclaimer: I don’t speak for all conservatives, either. In fact, I have (at another Board) had disagreements with some of them. My thinking is conflicted on this issue and a bit in flux, but I still maintain that Putin initiated the conflict and waged war against the civilian population of Ukraine. And he should be denied any shred of reward.

That said: many Republicans see Biden as utterly reckless. He isn’t merely a demented old man controlled by others. (But he is that, too.) His willingness to spend American money and materiel for the benefit of Ukraine also puts America on a flight path towards introducing our troops over there. The general objection is not merely “isolationism.” Instead, as I understand it, the objection is that we have a national obligation to only assist other nations when it also serves our national interest.

If I have sussed out that much correctly, so far, then my guess is that many conservatives fail to see how or why what Russia does to Ukraine is much of our concern.

Thank you for your concise and convincing analysis that conservatives are more demented and easily led by others than Mr Biden. There is no rational reason to think aid to Ukraine is a slippery slope to US troops there.

What an absurd thing for you to have said.

To the extent that some conservatives are concerned about how me act often leads to another one, that observation is absolutely spot on. If you are among those who don’t worry about how irresponsible Biden is, then you haven’t been paying attention to his record. Not just the fact that he can’t keep a thought in his feeble head which is a worrying sign in and of itself. But his actions and his inactions. They prove that he is utterly inept.

When it comes to decisions which involve us in other nations’ wars, the problems with Biden’s defective brain become more concerning. You try to dismiss it as a mere “slippery slope” claim. But that’s only because you refuse to contemplate the reactions of those other nations to our behavior.

The key foreign policy difference between Biden and Trump is that Biden believes in establishing and enhancing alliances utilizing stiff mutual defense and economic pacts to encourage larger countries (Russia and China) from bullying and conquering small countries. This system kept us out of world war 3 for 75 years. MAGA is seriously damaging this philosophy. Trump has stated that he's against NATO and a western alliance to counter China.

 

[Elixir]

We can now safely add Replacement of Armaments to the burgeoning list of stuff that Deplo either doesn’t understand, or is confident that he can misrepresent without being called out.

To the extent that some conservatives are concerned about how me act often leads to another one, that observation is absolutely spot on.

I wish! It would be great if we squash Pootey like the insect he is, and it leads to the US going after Cheato’s other lovers and buddies whose autocracies also threaten freedom.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Second disclaimer: I don’t speak for all conservatives, either. In fact, I have (at another Board) had disagreements with some of them. My thinking is conflicted on this issue and a bit in flux, but I still maintain that Putin initiated the conflict and waged war against the civilian population of Ukraine. And he should be denied any shred of reward.

Well, at least you haven't drunk all the kool-aid.

That said: many Republicans see Biden as utterly reckless. He isn’t merely a demented old man controlled by others. (But he is that, too.) His willingness to spend American money and materiel for the benefit of Ukraine also puts America on a flight path towards introducing our troops over there. The general objection is not merely “isolationism.” Instead, as I understand it, the objection is that we have a national obligation to only assist other nations when it also serves our national interest.

If I have sussed out that much correctly, so far, then my guess is that many conservatives fail to see how or why what Russia does to Ukraine is much of our concern.

We absolutely do not want to send troops over there--that could lead to direct US/Russian combat and that's an absolute no-no. Same as we will not permit our weapons to be used to strike targets in Russia. During the entire cold war both sides have very carefully avoided creating situations where direct combat exists (although probably some Russians were flying Migs in Vietnam--but they were pretending to be Vietnamese and were denied by Russia if shot down.) Normally probes into the other's environment are unarmed (think of the U-2 flights) and in the few cases where armed units have entered enemy space they have been under orders not to fire even in self defense. (Normally submarines probing undersea cables.) Neither side is going to send troops into a conflict where the other side already has troops--we arm their opponents, they arm our opponents but neither goes farther than that.

Beyond that, think of what we are getting for our money. From a purely pragmatic standpoint the Ukraine war is the best military deal the US has ever gotten. The Russian army is being decimated for zero dead and no realistic chance it will go nuclear. The Russian bear is being shown up as basically toothless and senile and they served themselves up on a silver platter by attacking a country we would be willing to provide heavy weapons to. And we are getting a lot of real-world data on how our weapons perform on the battlefield. Even if we didn't care one bit about the fate of Ukraine we should be arming them.

 

[Elixir]

It’s not bullshit. And it has never been “debunked.” Other than that, cool story, brah.

It has been debunked with the simple fact there has been no deployments into Ukraine or even any mobilisation of forces for deployment. There is a whole bunch of steps that need to be completed before boots hit the ground and the US military has done zero of them.

Again. Not a lie. You’re free to disagree. But your erroneous disagreement doesn’t make my correct assertion a “lie.”

Very much a lie. The talking point is a deliberate deception promoting the myth that your taxpayer dollars are going directly into Zelensky's pocket. Promoting a misleading narrative is the very definition of a lie.

That may be partly what he’s been doing. But I cannot help but notice that you fail to support your claims. And he sure has sent lots of actual money to Ukraine. (emphasis mine)

You remember when you said I didn't support my claims? Guess what I'm going to say to you now with regards to your allegations.

Again: that may have a sliver of truth to it. But you utterly fail to support you claim.

Nope. Whole truth. None of the equipment the US has given has been brand new, most of it is decades old, And guess which country has been the greatest recipient of aid money that has been earmarked to Ukrainian aid? I'll give you a hint;

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/29/ukraine-military-aid-american-economy-boost/

Well snuffed, Patooka.
Unfortunately the truth is irrelevant to Trumpers. Despite your thorough correction and Deplo’s inability to negate the facts, I predict the he will go right on sounding the alarm about “all the money Biden is putting in Zelensky’s pocket”.

Falsehoods among Trumpers are a direct reflection of Trump’s own dishonesty; that’s not a bug, it’s a feature of MAGAtism.